Billionaires Blast off

[Elixir]

You talk as if mega-billionaires were half the population. In fact, they're an "outgroup" for 99.9999% of us.

That doesn't refute his argument.

Maybe not in an authoritarian State, but in a representative democracy, it does should.

 

[DBT]

In other words, once again a case of eat-the-rich.

I do not believe consumers are overcharged by getting a better deal.

Once again: nothing to do with 'eat the rich' and everything to do with power and position...the balance of power being weighed heavily in favour of you know who.

Yep: the balance of power is weighted in favor of the common man, and against the rich. What a surprise. We live in democracies.

In ancien regime France, the balance of power was weighted heavily in favor of the rich, and therefore rich people weren't taxed and poor people were. That's what people in power do: they tax people out of power. But as you can see from the IRS graph Derec showed in post #211, we have a progressive tax system: richer people have to spend more of their lives producing stuff for the government than poorer people do. If rich people really have most of the power, and are in a position to configure the tax system as they please, why the heck would they have made it discriminate against themselves?

You still miss the point.

To summarize: in terms of pay rate, the 'common man' as in the average worker has very little negotiating power on his own. Without protections in place, awards (often too low), he is presented with the pay rate and conditions, take it or leave it.

Workers don't get to set the rules. Politicians promise the world at election time, then take care of those at the top, the business leaders. Workers are left to languish, wages stagnate for decades while the upper crust enjoy gains.

Collective bargaining and good representation at the table is often the only way to for workers to improve their lot.

Which does not mean 'eating the rich' or making them poor, just getting a fairer share of the wealth they help to build.

So what's the problem?

 

[Derec]

Maybe not in an authoritarian State, but in a representative democracy, it does should.

So, dictatorship of the majority?

 

[Elixir]

Maybe not in an authoritarian State, but in a representative democracy, it does should.

So, dictatorship of the majority?

When the majority is 99.9999%, yeah.
You disagree. So dictatorship of the .0001%?

 

[Derec]

When the majority is 99.9999%, yeah.
You disagree. So dictatorship of the .0001%?

That's a false dichotomy.

 

[Swammerdami]

Nothing of the sort. Are you suggesting that the highly profitable companies are unable to pay their workers more? The reason that they don't is not that they are unable to, but that they are unwilling.

Their business practice is to pay a little as possible in order to maximize profits. They pay what they need to, and an imbalance of negotiating power prevents workers from securing better pay. Collective bargaining goes some way in addressing this imbalance of power.

You're trying to keep people from accumulating large sums of money....

I am pointing out that excessive accumulation of wealth in the hands of a small percentage of the population is not good for society or the economy, and I have given the reasons why.....which you just ignore or brush aside.

I agree that wealth inequality is an increasing problem, and that limiting giga-fortunes with a wealth tax may be a good idea. And I'd like to see a return of labor union power in the U.S. And I agree that Amazon and Walmart have generated wealth off the sweat of their workers.

BUT, it is oversimplified to attribute all corporate wealth to worker exploitation. Do Apple, Microsoft or Pfizer underpay their workers?

 

[SLD]

I am pointing out that excessive accumulation of wealth in the hands of a small percentage of the population is not good for society or the economy, and I have given the reasons why.....which you just ignore or brush aside.

I agree that wealth inequality is an increasing problem, and that limiting giga-fortunes with a wealth tax may be a good idea. And I'd like to see a return of labor union power in the U.S. And I agree that Amazon and Walmart have generated wealth off the sweat of their workers.

BUT, it is oversimplified to attribute all corporate wealth to worker exploitation. Do Apple, Microsoft or Pfizer underpay their workers?

I agree. It’s not one thing or another only. Either libertarian economics or communism. We had a capitalistic economy in the 50’s but 91% marginal tax rates. I don’t think we need to go that high. And ther were a variety of ways to reduce that. But I do think we should go back to 70% rates for any amounts over $1,000,000.

We also need to consider a revenue tax vs. a profits tax. Amazon has trillions of dollars in sales a year. Through accounting gimmicks, it makes no profit usually so it pays no taxes. A 5% revenue tax would bring in significant revenue. Probably enough to balance the budget.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Does anyone else find themselves secretly hoping that one of them explodes?

That’s wrong I know, but what’s the point of these trips? They aren’t advancing science. They’re just going a multi million dollar thrill ride.

I don't. This is how technological progress is made.

 

[DBT]

I am pointing out that excessive accumulation of wealth in the hands of a small percentage of the population is not good for society or the economy, and I have given the reasons why.....which you just ignore or brush aside.

I agree that wealth inequality is an increasing problem, and that limiting giga-fortunes with a wealth tax may be a good idea. And I'd like to see a return of labor union power in the U.S. And I agree that Amazon and Walmart have generated wealth off the sweat of their workers.

BUT, it is oversimplified to attribute all corporate wealth to worker exploitation. Do Apple, Microsoft or Pfizer underpay their workers?

The specific areas of concern should be identified and addressed, though I can't that happening any time soon.

If those at the top tier of these companies are getting very, very rich....perhaps a larger portion could go to the workers who do menial but essential work that helps keep the business running. Somebody has to do maintenance, somebody has to do deliveries.....

 

[DBT]

Does anyone else find themselves secretly hoping that one of them explodes?

That’s wrong I know, but what’s the point of these trips? They aren’t advancing science. They’re just going a multi million dollar thrill ride.

I don't. This is how technological progress is made.

View attachment 34612

Somebody constructs the wheels, the struts, the engine, wings, seats, propeller so the 'rich guy' can realize their dream. Where they all working for a fair wage, or the bare minimum?

 

[Harry Bosch]

I am pointing out that excessive accumulation of wealth in the hands of a small percentage of the population is not good for society or the economy, and I have given the reasons why.....which you just ignore or brush aside.

I agree that wealth inequality is an increasing problem, and that limiting giga-fortunes with a wealth tax may be a good idea. And I'd like to see a return of labor union power in the U.S. And I agree that Amazon and Walmart have generated wealth off the sweat of their workers.

BUT, it is oversimplified to attribute all corporate wealth to worker exploitation. Do Apple, Microsoft or Pfizer underpay their workers?

I agree. It’s not one thing or another only. Either libertarian economics or communism. We had a capitalistic economy in the 50’s but 91% marginal tax rates. I don’t think we need to go that high. And ther were a variety of ways to reduce that. But I do think we should go back to 70% rates for any amounts over $1,000,000.

We also need to consider a revenue tax vs. a profits tax. Amazon has trillions of dollars in sales a year. Through accounting gimmicks, it makes no profit usually so it pays no taxes. A 5% revenue tax would bring in significant revenue. Probably enough to balance the budget.

Do you really think that? Why do you think that the European countries have mostly abandoned wealth taxes?

 

[Elixir]

When the majority is 99.9999%, yeah.
You disagree. So dictatorship of the .0001%?

That's a false dichotomy.

That’s an ignorant quip, not an argument.
We have tyranny of minority. You may lack the awareness to realize it, but you’re the perfect rube, perpetuating the status quo.
I encourage you to think real hard about whose welfare is more important- the 99.9999 percent or the billionaires. Then think about which group a government should serve.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Does anyone else find themselves secretly hoping that one of them explodes?

That’s wrong I know, but what’s the point of these trips? They aren’t advancing science. They’re just going a multi million dollar thrill ride.

I don't. This is how technological progress is made.

View attachment 34612

Somebody constructs the wheels, the struts, the engine, wings, seats, propeller so the 'rich guy' can realize their dream. Where they all working for a fair wage, or the bare minimum?

Or you could just shut up about that and enjoy the fact that you now have a cell phone thanks to rich idiots like Bezos.

 

[untermensche]

...This is how technological progress is made....

View attachment 34612

No.

That is how it WAS made.

We kidnapped a bunch of German rocket scientists and funded them massively and we figured out how to fairly consistently put payloads into space and bring them back.

Now some humans have become so rich they can perform a tiny function the government also performs.

Rocket design and construction.

 

[Elixir]

Ants are smarter than Republicans.

 

[untermensche]

That has some connection to game theory. I am far from an expert.

But the best way to gain for yourself is to live in a cooperative environment.

A competitive environment has losers as well as winners.

You have no guarantee you will be a winner.

 

[TSwizzle]

I see Tesla reported a QUARTERLY profit of $1.2 billion dollars. A couple of things on that, Musk will no doubt be well rewarded for that, seventh straight quarter of profit I believe. Why does the government continue to subsidize the purchase of these overpriced cars with tax credits ?

 

[Toni]

Bezos is donating $200M to the Smithsonian, so it’s not like he’s only spending his fortune on himself. I don’t understand all the hate for these rocket flights. We don’t know who it will inspire or what technological advancements may come. What should he do, ride around the Mediterranean on a super yacht doing very unsavory things like some other super rich folks who have been in the news lately?

Please. In the time it will take me to type out this post, Bezos will have recouped the bulk of that $200M. Plus, his donation will display his name so it's just another ego massage.

To me, there are 3 big issues:

1. No person, no matter how benevolent, should control that much wealth and resources. Bezos isn't benevolent and has made the bulk of his fortune by underpaying and abusing his workers. If he wants to do the right thing, he can start by paying Amazon employees properly and, btw, not shortchanging and bullying vendors, be more careful about selling fake/knock off products and also maybe start looking at Amazon's environmental impact since he's obviously too insecure to look at his own.

2. I am also certain that, as in the past, there will be a great deal of technical advances that come from billionaire's vanity projects. And I am even more certain that Bezos will do his best to capitalize and monetize every single one of those advances and keep the money for himself because...his ego is just that big and so is the hole in him where a soul and a conscious should be.

3. No private person should be able to command any amount of airspace or claim it as their own. It's far, far, far too dangerous and it's morally wrong.

And...I just thought of another reason so it's really 4 reasons:

4. Numbnuts Jeff Bezos apparently thinks the best place to send our garbage is into space. I'm sure he has a plan for that right now.

What Bezos and his kindred really want is to be king of the world, He doesn't want to have to mess with stupid elections a la Trump: that would risk failure and exposure of all his dirty secrets. He simply wants to buy the world and run things as he thinks they should be run. If Amazon is any sort of preview of his vision for the world, then that would be hugely disastrous, beyond my vocabulary to express.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Bezos is donating $200M to the Smithsonian, so it’s not like he’s only spending his fortune on himself. I don’t understand all the hate for these rocket flights. We don’t know who it will inspire or what technological advancements may come. What should he do, ride around the Mediterranean on a super yacht doing very unsavory things like some other super rich folks who have been in the news lately?

As a percentage of his wealth, $200M is what? Not that he is obligated to give a red cent to charity.

We don’t know if any technological advances will be shared either. Musk shares with NASA and has given permission for NASA to share with whomever.

No he should not ride around the Med in a super yacht. Now that he has discovered the joy of vast wealth, he should discover the joy of helping humanity. And if he can’t find it himself, he can look to his ex for help.

 

[ZiprHead]

Does anyone else find themselves secretly hoping that one of them explodes?

That’s wrong I know, but what’s the point of these trips? They aren’t advancing science. They’re just going a multi million dollar thrill ride.

I don't. This is how technological progress is made.

View attachment 34612

How much progress is being hindered by most of the country being poorly paid and only a few billionaires making progress for their own ends? There are smart people in all walks of life that could make technological progress if they had the means and the time.