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Bernie Can't Win

Yes, she laughs (and that's not attractive). She goes into her why-we-can't spiel, (That is not inspirational.) Her surrogates say really out of touch things and have to apologize, (making her look unconnected at best and calculating at worst.) Plus her whole inevitability argument makes her look pompous and conceited. ...

Yes. Middle aged, middle and upper class white women who don't get the irony of calling for better wages for women while paying poor and working class women $7.25 to to clean and feed their octogenarian parents.

...Being a woman is not enough. Every successful "first woman" candidate also ran on a platform of change be it to the left or right, not a continuation of present policy.

...You are probably right and she won't quit. Doesn't mean she'll win.

After reading an entire post by Athena, and discovering I agree with all her comments, I am checking my meds. Something is seriously amiss...

Anyway, Bernie Sanders can win AND that is a good thing. It is long overdue that the Democratic party shake off the "vote for my white female body parts" obsession.

It seems that the younger generation of women are not falling for her gender based nativism. Bernie's message cuts to the core (and rationale) human grievance over a lack of material well being and security for any gender, race, or national origin. Tens of millions are poor and unable to find a good job, other 10s of millions of modest income are not secure and have uncertain prospects for a better life. They don't want to hear about "herstory" - they want a friggen decent job and some universal entitlements.

But Hillary, a six year board of director for Wallmart, only convincingly represents the concerns of white middle and upper class professional women, a self-conscious demographic that whines over the irrational fear of glass ceilings for 7 and 8 figure silicon valley female executives.

Bernie is a romantic return to 60s left idealism...a sort of Utopian belief in egalitarian socialism, uncrippled by the "my group" tribalist wars of the past.

So yes, Bernie can win, and I still believe he will.
 
Bernie is a romantic return to 60s left idealism...a sort of Utopian belief in egalitarian socialism, uncrippled by the "my group" tribalist wars of the past.

The German's, the Scandinavians, and other northern European nations have been doing what Bernie is proposing for decades.

He is merely trying to get the US to join the modern world.
 
Bernie is a romantic return to 60s left idealism...a sort of Utopian belief in egalitarian socialism, uncrippled by the "my group" tribalist wars of the past.

The German's, the Scandinavians, and other northern European nations have been doing what Bernie is proposing for decades.

He is merely trying to get the US to join the modern world.

I'm seeing a lot of this on facebook. Conservatives are finding the scariest scenarios possible and calling them "socialism," along with images of devastation and poverty, etc., while completely ignoring a huge swatch of civilization, i.e., countries in Europe, that would serve as much more realistic possibilities for speculating how a UHC system and a raised minimum wage would actually look like in the United States. Right wing fear mongering is out of control.

Then again, these are the people who think the fifties were idyllic.
 
The German's, the Scandinavians, and other northern European nations have been doing what Bernie is proposing for decades.

He is merely trying to get the US to join the modern world.

I'm seeing a lot of this on facebook. Conservatives are finding the scariest scenarios possible and calling them "socialism," along with images of devastation and poverty, etc., while completely ignoring a huge swatch of civilization, i.e., countries in Europe, that would serve as much more realistic possibilities for speculating how a UHC system and a raised minimum wage would actually look like in the United States. Right wing fear mongering is out of control.

Then again, these are the people who think the fifties were idyllic.

Speaking of the fifties

main-qimg-466eb07701fc44808ed4e430d620808b.png
 
I'm seeing a lot of this on facebook. Conservatives are finding the scariest scenarios possible and calling them "socialism," along with images of devastation and poverty, etc., while completely ignoring a huge swatch of civilization, i.e., countries in Europe, that would serve as much more realistic possibilities for speculating how a UHC system and a raised minimum wage would actually look like in the United States. Right wing fear mongering is out of control.

Then again, these are the people who think the fifties were idyllic.

Speaking of the fifties

View attachment 5793
Damn. In that respect, *I* wish we could go back to the fifties.
 
This should get him some serious respect, getting arrested at anti-segregation protest:

ct-bernie-sanders-arrested-20160219.jpeg

As far as proving how serious he has been this is nearly game set match...
 
Contrary to popular belief among political strategists, elections aren't won by convincing swing voters to choose one candidate or another. Elections are won by motivating people who are most likely to support you to turn out on elections and cast a vote. Swing voters who vacillate back and forth between candidates are both rare and fickle and obsessively chasing their votes just turns off the people who WOULD turn out and vote for you if they thought you actually gave a shit about anyone.

Sanders is electable because he isn't chasing the swing vote. He KNOWS he appeals to liberals and he isn't going to throw their causes under a bus just to grab a handful of centrist/undecided votes. He's betting that appealing to liberals on a massive scale will make them show up and vote in larger numbers and that the centrist/swing voters will pretty much throw in with whatever candidate their friends are voting for.

I like your argument. It gives me hope that Bernie or someone like him can win soon. But is it really true? Or just wishful thinking?

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ted-cruzs-general-election-strategy-is-wishful-thinking/

This article points towards it as wishful thinking. And it has hard data to back it up. The general election Is won by swing voters. The key is that there are only a few states left that are competitive.

SLD
 
It looks like in many states from hereon out the primaries are winner take all. This may be what finishes off Cruz and Rubio.

Hangin on in 2nd or 3rd no longer works for such states. Trump will quickly end up with an unsurrmounatble lead

:(
 
It looks like in many states from hereon out the primaries are winner take all. This may be what finishes off Cruz and Rubio.

Hangin on in 2nd or 3rd no longer works for such states. Trump will quickly end up with an unsurrmounatble lead

:(
Nevada Trump won a majority of delegates. Coming in 2nd only works if you keep the guy in 1st from winning a majority of delegates. And it is starting to look like Cruz can win Texas, but not by any margin that will matter.
 
Apparently that system was meant for a guy like Romney that Republican bosses favor.
 
Contrary to popular belief among political strategists, elections aren't won by convincing swing voters to choose one candidate or another. Elections are won by motivating people who are most likely to support you to turn out on elections and cast a vote. Swing voters who vacillate back and forth between candidates are both rare and fickle and obsessively chasing their votes just turns off the people who WOULD turn out and vote for you if they thought you actually gave a shit about anyone.

Sanders is electable because he isn't chasing the swing vote. He KNOWS he appeals to liberals and he isn't going to throw their causes under a bus just to grab a handful of centrist/undecided votes. He's betting that appealing to liberals on a massive scale will make them show up and vote in larger numbers and that the centrist/swing voters will pretty much throw in with whatever candidate their friends are voting for.

I like your argument. It gives me hope that Bernie or someone like him can win soon. But is it really true? Or just wishful thinking?

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ted-cruzs-general-election-strategy-is-wishful-thinking/

This article points towards it as wishful thinking. And it has hard data to back it up. The general election Is won by swing voters. The key is that there are only a few states left that are competitive.

SLD

In the first place, there's a different reality for conservatives; the theory that they can win elections just by being "more conservative" is a meme they've been running with for a long time. But this article, like so many others, appears to be equating the concept of "swing voters" with "swing states" as if they are related concepts.

They're not, though. Swing states are on the fence because the number of liberals is similar to the number of conservatives and there isn't an clear supermajority of one group or the other to make the national election a foregone conclusion in those states. This isn't because a huge number of voters in those states are undecided, it's because a huge number of voters from both sides of the political spectrum live there.

And it is in PRECISELY those states that the high turnout of your supporters makes the most difference. If only 30% of eligible voters actually turn out to cast a ballot, your electoral success depends entirely on whether or not turnout of your SUPPORTERS exceeds turnout from your opponents. The obsessive chasing of swing voters depends on the assumption that 100% of your potential supporters will definitely turn out on election day and that you really only need to clinch a few EXTRA percent to have a chance at winning.

THAT is wishful thinking: the assumption that you can count on every single liberal in a battleground state vigorously supporting a candidate who has given them no reason at all to do so other than "Vote for me, I'm not a Republican," whose political presence and campaign thrust has been entirely calculated to attract shallow swing voters with short attention spans, whose avoids controversy like a schoolyard bully and refuses to take a decisive stand on any liberal issue for fear of alienating right-leaning centrists. When you fuck over your entire base to try and win the swing vote, that's when you start getting 30% turnout from members of your own party; even if you SUCCEED and win over the swing voters, you still loose the general election.

So it isn't actually a task of convincing people to vote for you instead of the other guy. It's a task of convincing people who support you to vote AT ALL. People who are still undecided on election day probably won't bother voting in the first place.

tl;dr: the "math" only works out the way the writer claims if you can guarantee that 100% of base voters will actually vote. If you piss off the base and none of them show up to the polls, it doesn't matter how many swing votes you pull. In that sense, Cruz's team isn't actually wrong about Romney, and that's essentially how Obama got elected the FIRST time too.
 
I like your argument. It gives me hope that Bernie or someone like him can win soon. But is it really true? Or just wishful thinking?

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ted-cruzs-general-election-strategy-is-wishful-thinking/

This article points towards it as wishful thinking. And it has hard data to back it up. The general election Is won by swing voters. The key is that there are only a few states left that are competitive.

SLD

In the first place, there's a different reality for conservatives; the theory that they can win elections just by being "more conservative" is a meme they've been running with for a long time. But this article, like so many others, appears to be equating the concept of "swing voters" with "swing states" as if they are related concepts.

They're not, though. Swing states are on the fence because the number of liberals is similar to the number of conservatives and there isn't an clear supermajority of one group or the other to make the national election a foregone conclusion in those states. This isn't because a huge number of voters in those states are undecided, it's because a huge number of voters from both sides of the political spectrum live there.

And it is in PRECISELY those states that the high turnout of your supporters makes the most difference. If only 30% of eligible voters actually turn out to cast a ballot, your electoral success depends entirely on whether or not turnout of your SUPPORTERS exceeds turnout from your opponents. The obsessive chasing of swing voters depends on the assumption that 100% of your potential supporters will definitely turn out on election day and that you really only need to clinch a few EXTRA percent to have a chance at winning.

THAT is wishful thinking: the assumption that you can count on every single liberal in a battleground state vigorously supporting a candidate who has given them no reason at all to do so other than "Vote for me, I'm not a Republican," whose political presence and campaign thrust has been entirely calculated to attract shallow swing voters with short attention spans, whose avoids controversy like a schoolyard bully and refuses to take a decisive stand on any liberal issue for fear of alienating right-leaning centrists. When you fuck over your entire base to try and win the swing vote, that's when you start getting 30% turnout from members of your own party; even if you SUCCEED and win over the swing voters, you still loose the general election.

So it isn't actually a task of convincing people to vote for you instead of the other guy. It's a task of convincing people who support you to vote AT ALL. People who are still undecided on election day probably won't bother voting in the first place.

tl;dr: the "math" only works out the way the writer claims if you can guarantee that 100% of base voters will actually vote. If you piss off the base and none of them show up to the polls, it doesn't matter how many swing votes you pull. In that sense, Cruz's team isn't actually wrong about Romney, and that's essentially how Obama got elected the FIRST time too.

I saw an interview of Hillary Clinton last night and Tavis Smiley pretty well gave her the harshest interview I have seen her take. When it was all over, she was left with nothing left but "Vote for me. I'm not influenced by all the money I have taken and I'm not a Republican." In my estimation, Trump could and probably will take her in an election if she gets the nomination. She has abandoned the base of the Democratic party in favor of Wall Street money. Tavis did a great job on her and I am amazed a WalMart man had the guts to play hardball with her and yet end the interview with a smile.:)
 
In the first place, there's a different reality for conservatives; the theory that they can win elections just by being "more conservative" is a meme they've been running with for a long time. But this article, like so many others, appears to be equating the concept of "swing voters" with "swing states" as if they are related concepts.

They're not, though. Swing states are on the fence because the number of liberals is similar to the number of conservatives and there isn't an clear supermajority of one group or the other to make the national election a foregone conclusion in those states. This isn't because a huge number of voters in those states are undecided, it's because a huge number of voters from both sides of the political spectrum live there.

And it is in PRECISELY those states that the high turnout of your supporters makes the most difference. If only 30% of eligible voters actually turn out to cast a ballot, your electoral success depends entirely on whether or not turnout of your SUPPORTERS exceeds turnout from your opponents. The obsessive chasing of swing voters depends on the assumption that 100% of your potential supporters will definitely turn out on election day and that you really only need to clinch a few EXTRA percent to have a chance at winning.

THAT is wishful thinking: the assumption that you can count on every single liberal in a battleground state vigorously supporting a candidate who has given them no reason at all to do so other than "Vote for me, I'm not a Republican," whose political presence and campaign thrust has been entirely calculated to attract shallow swing voters with short attention spans, whose avoids controversy like a schoolyard bully and refuses to take a decisive stand on any liberal issue for fear of alienating right-leaning centrists. When you fuck over your entire base to try and win the swing vote, that's when you start getting 30% turnout from members of your own party; even if you SUCCEED and win over the swing voters, you still loose the general election.

So it isn't actually a task of convincing people to vote for you instead of the other guy. It's a task of convincing people who support you to vote AT ALL. People who are still undecided on election day probably won't bother voting in the first place.

tl;dr: the "math" only works out the way the writer claims if you can guarantee that 100% of base voters will actually vote. If you piss off the base and none of them show up to the polls, it doesn't matter how many swing votes you pull. In that sense, Cruz's team isn't actually wrong about Romney, and that's essentially how Obama got elected the FIRST time too.

I saw an interview of Hillary Clinton last night and Tavis Smiley pretty well gave her the harshest interview I have seen her take. When it was all over, she was left with nothing left but "Vote for me. I'm not influenced by all the money I have taken and I'm not a Republican." In my estimation, Trump could and probably will take her in an election if she gets the nomination. She has abandoned the base of the Democratic party in favor of Wall Street money. Tavis did a great job on her and I am amazed a WalMart man had the guts to play hardball with her and yet end the interview with a smile.:)
Abandoned the base? When the heck was she ever for the base?
 
Abandoned the base? When the heck was she ever for the base?

Well, she's been in politics for a long time. I imagine that there was a point or two along the way where her algorithms concluded that it would be optimal for her career to be for the base on some given issues and she adjusted her output protocols accordingly.
 
I saw an interview of Hillary Clinton last night and Tavis Smiley pretty well gave her the harshest interview I have seen her take. When it was all over, she was left with nothing left but "Vote for me. I'm not influenced by all the money I have taken and I'm not a Republican." In my estimation, Trump could and probably will take her in an election if she gets the nomination. She has abandoned the base of the Democratic party in favor of Wall Street money. Tavis did a great job on her and I am amazed a WalMart man had the guts to play hardball with her and yet end the interview with a smile.:)
Abandoned the base? When the heck was she ever for the base?

Basically what I am talking about is that she abandoned the pretense...it was just too hard to keep up and still expect her big money handlers to continue to support her. I don't believe she has ever been for anyone but herself in a very selfish way. Her body language and her syntax indicate she is lying every time she mouths some progressive idea.
 
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-democratic-primary

Huffington Post aggregate polls

National Democratic Party Poll

Clinton 48.5%
Sanders 42.8%

Clinton + 5.7%

Sanders 51%
Trump 41%

Clinton 48%
Trump 44%

Go, Bernie, Go!

I think Hillary is an easy opponent for Trump to defeat.

All she is is Republican-light, neo-con-light, US exceptionalism-light.

She offers no real alternative to Trump, just a watered down version of his likely policies.
 
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