'Baby, It's Cold Outside,' Seen As Sexist, Frozen Out By Radio Stations

[JohnG]

What's rapey about it? She's a grown-assed woman who decided that she won't care about the negative opinions of a bunch of people who'd want to slut shame her because she wanted to get some.

I can't tell if you're serious. It would weird if you are because it's a make-believe song written by 2 men. I'm sure in their mind it was a cool idea at the time.

 

[SLD]

Imagine if Bill Cosby were to sing that song! Ouch!

 

[ruby sparks]

Thoughts?

PC gone a bit ott again, imo. And in the 'real world', off-campus, in this instance.

The phrase (and book title) 'Coddling of the American Mind' might be appropriate.

 

[ruby sparks]

I always thought that song was a bit rapey. #metoo did not invent awareness of rape culture.

Sure, but why ban it? By all means point out that, particularly as an example of its time and zeitgeist, it's a bit rapey.

If we ban all this sort of stuff, people won't be aware of it and won't be able to discuss it and learn to integrate it into their understanding or consider their responses.

Or alternatively, let's get the editing scissors out and censor all old films and other media for lots of things.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

What's rapey about it? She's a grown-assed woman who decided that she won't care about the negative opinions of a bunch of people who'd want to slut shame her because she wanted to get some.

I can't tell if you're serious. It would weird if you are because it's a make-believe song written by 2 men.

One man, actually (Broadway legend Frank Loesser) and according to his daughter it was written in 1944 for he and his wife to sing at parties.

As she also noted, back then the line, “Say, what’s in this drink” was an ironic joke, not a reference to a date rape drug (which didn’t exist back then; at least not as it does today).

Once again, the lyrics depict a woman who wants to have sex in a repressed era (aka, mid century America) going through a litany of excuses and rationales about staying and having sex when a woman is not supposed to have a sex drive.

It was actually an ironically risqué song for the time precisely for that reason, that has now been tainted primarily by Bill Cosby (as Loesser’s daughter also notes).

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Pleasantly surprised here. I was expecting a whole different viewpoint to be predominant in this thread, about not banning this song is evidence of "rape culture" gone rampant.

 

[southernhybrid]

I'm a woman who considers herself a feminist, and I absolutely love that song, although I never thought of it as a Christmas song. I prefer the version that Betty Carter and Ray Charles did. I even have it on an album, but then along with many other genres of music, I love old jazzy, pop tunes from the 30s, 40s, and 50s.

My husband and I sometimes sing that song to each other for fun. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a man trying to seduce a woman or a woman trying to seduce a man. I love sexy songs. I love sex! Is there anything wrong with the Pointer Sisters singing, "Slow Hand Man". It's women telling men that they want a man to take his time when he's making love. What about the song, "I Want an all the way Lover", by Millie Jackson? That one is about a woman talking about how she wants a man who will go down on her. I love that song too. I also love the slow jam soul tune, "Come On Over to my Place" song by Teddy Pendergrass. Again, it's a very similar theme as "Baby it's Cold Outside." It's about a man trying to pick up a woman and convince her to go home with him. As long as its consensual, who cares who or how the seducing is done? I"m glad I'm so old school because it sounds to me as if some people are trying to take all the fun out of sex and seduction. That's just sad.

And, apparently, I'm not the only woman that feels this way.


https://qz.com/quartzy/1486507/baby-its-cold-outside-isnt-about-rape/

“At the time period the song was written, ‘good girls,’ especially young, unmarried girls, did not spend the night at a man’s house unsupervised,” the pseudonymous author Slay Belle wrote for the feminist blog Persephone back in 2006. “This is a song about sex, wanting it, having it, maybe having a long night of it by the fire, but it’s not a song about rape. It’s a song about the desires even good girls have.”

In 2015, writer Helen Rosner stripped out the part of the apparent aggressor and concluded that the song as clearly about a “sexually aware woman worried about slut shaming.”

“The first two verses are both: (1) I have to go. (2)I’m having a great time, but (3) I’m scared of my family’s opinions,” Rosner wrote on Twitter. “She clearly wants to stay, is scared of the social ramifications of that choice, and in the end says ‘fuck society’s repressiveness’ & stays.”

“If you think Baby It’s Cold Outside is creepy, you are robbing the woman in that song of her agency,” Rosner concludes. “You are the problem. I’m not kidding.”

I agree with Rosner. And yeah, the ling about what's in this drink is about alcohol, not a date rape drug. Sheesh.

 

[Jarhyn]

Pleasantly surprised here. I was expecting a whole different viewpoint to be predominant in this thread, about not banning this song is evidence of "rape culture" gone rampant.

I wasn't. I expected to see exactly what I saw when this came up on Reddit, everything from "what's in this drink?" As period language for "this drink ISN'T alcoholic, but I'm still going to use drinking it as an excuse to get horizontal," to pointing out the use of such mechanisms to defeat slut-shaming.

Also, I don't know if this has come into it here, but traditionally, it is a song sung by married folks that essentially says "y'all go home now, we want to fuck!"

 

[Politesse]

I always thought that song was a bit rapey. #metoo did not invent awareness of rape culture.

Sure, but why ban it? By all means point out that, particularly as an example of its time and zeitgeist, it's a bit rapey.

If we ban all this sort of stuff, people won't be aware of it and won't be able to discuss it and learn to integrate it into their understanding or consider their responses.

Or alternatively, let's get the editing scissors out and censor all old films and other media for lots of things.

Who "banned" anything? Any station that wants to play the song is perfectly free to due so with no legal consequences, and that is as it should be.

But if people don't enjoy the song in the same way due to the evolution of society, that's neither surprising nor upsetting, and I don't expect radio stations to play songs just because a minority subset of mostly middle-aged men likes to pretend they don't understand or should be free to enjoy rapey undertones. I don't hear "Johnny Get Angry" very often on the oldies station anymore, and that is also fine with me. Nothing is banned, just dispreferred, because America grew up a little.

If you want to hear a Christmas song about a girl who wants to fuck a guy, there are plenty to choose from, that don't romanticize dubious consent as an interactional ideal.

 

[repoman]

Johnny Get Angry is a "shit test" song

 

[Tom Sawyer]

What's rapey about it? She's a grown-assed woman who decided that she won't care about the negative opinions of a bunch of people who'd want to slut shame her because she wanted to get some.

I can't tell if you're serious. It would weird if you are because it's a make-believe song written by 2 men. I'm sure in their mind it was a cool idea at the time.

Well, what exactly is your problem with the lyrics? I see absolutely nothing wrong with trying to convince somebody to have sex with you provided you don't push them into anything non-consensual and most of her objections had to do with how all her family and friends would slut shame her if she didn't come back home. That points to issues with her family and friends and not issues with the guy.

 

[Jarhyn]

What's rapey about it? She's a grown-assed woman who decided that she won't care about the negative opinions of a bunch of people who'd want to slut shame her because she wanted to get some.

I can't tell if you're serious. It would weird if you are because it's a make-believe song written by 2 men. I'm sure in their mind it was a cool idea at the time.

Well, what exactly is your problem with the lyrics? I see absolutely nothing wrong with trying to convince somebody to have sex with you provided you don't push them into anything non-consensual and most of her objections had to do with how all her family and friends would slut shame her if she didn't come back home. That points to issues with her family and friends and not issues with the guy.

I dunno. Maybe he just didn't understand your post?

 

[thebeave]

What's rapey about it? She's a grown-assed woman who decided that she won't care about the negative opinions of a bunch of people who'd want to slut shame her because she wanted to get some.

I can't tell if you're serious. It would weird if you are because it's a make-believe song written by 2 men. I'm sure in their mind it was a cool idea at the time.

Well, what exactly is your problem with the lyrics? I see absolutely nothing wrong with trying to convince somebody to have sex with you provided you don't push them into anything non-consensual and most of her objections had to do with how all her family and friends would slut shame her if she didn't come back home. That points to issues with her family and friends and not issues with the guy.

I think it has to do with the whole "no means no" stuff. She's coyly resistant and making up excuses why she can't stay. He keeps trying to break her will, instead. These days, if a woman doesn't respond with a clear, unambiguous and enthusiastic "YES, YES!", its basically sexual harassment. Try to keep up.

 

[ruby sparks]

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EJ1SBAO1HU[/YOUTUBE]

 

[JohnG]

What's rapey about it? She's a grown-assed woman who decided that she won't care about the negative opinions of a bunch of people who'd want to slut shame her because she wanted to get some.

I can't tell if you're serious. It would weird if you are because it's a make-believe song written by 2 men. I'm sure in their mind it was a cool idea at the time.

Well, what exactly is your problem with the lyrics? I see absolutely nothing wrong with trying to convince somebody to have sex with you provided you don't push them into anything non-consensual and most of her objections had to do with how all her family and friends would slut shame her if she didn't come back home. That points to issues with her family and friends and not issues with the guy.

The premise of the song is the ol' "Her lips say no but her eyes say yes" strategy for picking up dames. It is what it is. It's of the times of when it was written.

 

[ruby sparks]

Nothing is banned, just dispreferred, because America grew up a little.

Yeah, and after the revolution, intentional seduction will be a thoughtcrime and intolerance will become the new tolerance.

 

[ZiprHead]

I just heard the song today at the restaurant my wife and I had lunch in. It was the Sirius/XM Country Christmas channel.

 

[RavenSky]

It's a good song, but I can see why people have issues with it, I used to think the song was fucked up, but on closer listening it's really about the woman wanting to get some, and trying to talk herself into ignoring what the prudish society will think. The line about the drink is the main one that makes you think of date rape, but I think that is actually her inventing an excuse to "misbehave." There's no convincing people otherwise at this point though.

The assumption that any "woman [is] wanting to get some, and trying to talk herself into ignoring what the prudish society will think" is how women get 'date' raped.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It's a good song, but I can see why people have issues with it, I used to think the song was fucked up, but on closer listening it's really about the woman wanting to get some, and trying to talk herself into ignoring what the prudish society will think. The line about the drink is the main one that makes you think of date rape, but I think that is actually her inventing an excuse to "misbehave." There's no convincing people otherwise at this point though.

The assumption that any "woman [is] wanting to get some, and trying to talk herself into ignoring what the prudish society will think" is how women get 'date' raped.

And excessive speeding is how many people get killed. That doesn’t mean the the Fast and Furious franchise should be banned for promoting vehicular homicide. This is because the movies themselves are about having fun driving fast and drawing parallels to the real world means you are watching movies wrong.

Similarly, you can find a way to draw a parallel between the song and date rape, but doing so means nothing more then that you’re listening to the song wrong. This is because there isn’t any date rape in the song. There is two consensual adults consenting. Certain lines of this song have also been used in commercials to sell winter tires. It doesn’t make the song a public service message about automotive safety in the winter and if anyone tells you that’s what the song is really about, it just means that the person you’re talking to is listening to the song wrong.

 

[crazyfingers]

I want a War on secular xmas songs right now!

And to be fair I also want a War on religious Christmas songs right now!

GOD fuck him damnit, why isn't the orange moron if chief Tweeting about this?