Another officer not indicted

[Axulus]

But your scenario passes the "but for" test. But for the car accident (had it not occurred at all), would he not have been killed that day? Almost certainly yes. But for the choke-hold, would Eric Garner still be alive and not have suffered a heart attack? Probably, but not certainly.

I wouldn't even say probably. The cause of death appears to be the pile of officers subduing him. I don't see that the chokehold had anything to do with it.

The medical examiner declared it a contributory factor. As Sabine pointed out, the lack of oxygen to his vital organs could very well have triggered the heart attack. The lack of oxygen came from two sources: the officers on top of him (you can't move your diaphragm) and the choke hold (can't get adequate air through the trachea). The question for a criminal proceeding, however, is whether or not everything else, in the absence of the choke-hold, was itself sufficient to have possibly caused his death.

I've seen no one here provide anything convincing that the pile of officers on him _definitely_ would not have triggered his heart attack. I mean, how often does a choke hold trigger a heart attack anyway? No reasonable person would expect a choke hold to trigger a heart attack. If he was choking him so severely that he died from asphyxiation, that's one thing, but a heart attack is something else all together.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

I'm still wondering how we could hear him if he couldn't breath. Although he probably had to breathe harder because of his size and officers on top of him don't help. .

 

[Axulus]

I'm still wondering how we could hear him if he couldn't breath. Although he probably had to breathe harder because of his size and officers on top of him don't help. .

I'm sure his air supply wasn't cut of 100%, but still severely restricted.

 

[ksen]

I saw that and forget to respond to it. The Citizen Review Board is a good idea. Whatever we're doing right now is obviously not working. Violent crime rates are dropping, the number of police that die violently in the line of duty is the lowest it's been in decades, and yet 1000s of civilians a year are dying at the hands of cops and hardly any police officers are indicted.

This is not how a first world country is supposed to operate.

What I wrote wasn't a citizen review board, I stepped it up several notches and broke the monopoly power of public prosecutors to bring criminal charges against those who so desperately deserve them.

Yeah, I went back and checked after making that post. Your ideas are intriguing and I'd like to see what other countries have adopted those types of ideas and how they're working there.

 

[ZiprHead]

He died accidentally (because of his health problems)

If he died because of his health problems, he would still be dead whether he resisted or not. He died because he was choked to death.

 

[ZiprHead]

By the way - Anthony Baez had asthma. The police officer who put him in a choke hold and killed him still served 6.5 years of a 7.5 year sentence for violating Anthony Baez' civil rights*. That is what I predict will happen to Daniel Pantaleo.

I think that was, like the federal Rodney King case railroading, a ridiculous outcome. The guy had asthma. He violently resisted arrest. Obviously his own actions caused his death. So if you are ill resist arrest against police and your family can get millions. More effective than suicide as life insurance policies have clauses against suicide and you don't even have to pay premiums. As a bonus, you even get a street named after you. I wonder how soon DiBlasio will rename Bay Street Eric Garner Blvd.

Yes, that was his plan. Let the cops kill him so his family can live on easy street.

 

[Derec]

Yes, that was his plan. Let the cops kill him so his family can live on easy street.

Ok, not really, but it's pretty stupid to not fault either Baez or Garner for resisting arrest - especially since they know they have health problems.

 

[ksen]

Garner didn't resist arrest.

 

[RavenSky]

Yes, that was his plan. Let the cops kill him so his family can live on easy street.

Ok, not really, but it's pretty stupid to not fault either Baez or Garner for resisting arrest - especially since they know they have health problems.

Do you have any idea WHY Anthony Baez was being arrested? Please, do continue trying to defame this man and blame him for his own death.

- - - Updated - - -

Garner didn't resist arrest.

Correct

 

[Nice Squirrel]

I wouldn't even say probably. The cause of death appears to be the pile of officers subduing him. I don't see that the chokehold had anything to do with it.

Of course you don't. But I am rather shocked that you admit that the "cause of death appears to be the pile of officers subduing him". So you think all 5 officers should be disciplined or brought up on charges... or are you still going to blame the victim?

This would be a good defense if the officer was brought up on charges.

 

[RavenSky]

Of course you don't. But I am rather shocked that you admit that the "cause of death appears to be the pile of officers subduing him". So you think all 5 officers should be disciplined or brought up on charges... or are you still going to blame the victim?

This would be a good defense if the officer was brought up on charges.

Yeah, you are likely correct

"No no no, the other four police officers (who were conveniently given immunity) really killed him, not me!"

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Loren, how far would an officer have to go to earn your condemnation?

And how is your position regarding the police somehow libertarian?

what Jason said.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Fair enough. It's still the cause of death, though. If you do something that you shouldn't be doing and that action directly leads to somebody's death, that does make you some category of murderer, even if felony murder isn't the correct category.

Maybe it would be better termed involuntary manslaughter. Whatever the correct category is, the officer seems to be clearly guilty of it.

And how did the chokehold cause the chest compression that was the problem??

This guy died because it took a bunch of officers to subdue him, not because of a chokehold.

And you got your medical degree when?

THE CORONER SAYS IT WAS CHOKING!!!!!

What you think, with your no training or professional recognition means nothing.

 

[Derec]

Do you have any idea WHY Anthony Baez was being arrested?

Just from reading his wiki page: because he was a punk who thought that rules didn't apply to him and that he could continue to play football in the street in the middle of the night even after a police officer told him not to?

Please, do continue trying to defame this man and blame him for his own death.

His brother didn't resist and nothing happened to him.

 

[Derec]

Garner didn't resist arrest.

Progressive reality inversion field is fully deployed.

 

[RavenSky]

Just from reading his wiki page: because he was a punk who thought that rules didn't apply to him and that he could continue to play football in the street in the middle of the night even after a police officer told him not to?

Please, do continue trying to defame this man and blame him for his own death.

His brother didn't resist and nothing happened to him.

Please produce the statute, with link, that tossing a football back and forth with your brother is illegal. Go ahead... I will wait right here for you to produce it. (I won't be holding my breathe though)

 

[RavenSky]

Garner didn't resist arrest.

Progressive reality inversion field is fully deployed.

No, that would have been your post that liberals walk in lock-step.

As for Garner not resisting arrest, you need only watch the video for objective evidence that ken is correct. No one had even attempted to place Garner under arrest at the point that one of the police jumped on his back and applied the choke hold.

I am curious, though... do you genuinely believe some of the stuff you say, or are you pulling our collective legs?

 

[HelixSpiral]

Progressive reality inversion field is fully deployed.

No, that would have been your post that liberals walk in lock-step.

As for Garner not resisting arrest, you need only watch the video for objective evidence that ken is correct. No one had even attempted to place Garner under arrest at the point that one of the police jumped on his back and applied the choke hold.

I am curious, though... do you genuinely believe some of the stuff you say, or are you pulling our collective legs?

He has to be pulling our legs. No one can think this stuff.

 

[Derec]

As for Garner not resisting arrest, you need only watch the video for objective evidence that ken is correct. No one had even attempted to place Garner under arrest at the point that one of the police jumped on his back and applied the choke hold.

I did watch the video. He was resisting before he was placed in the headlock.

 

[Sarpedon]

I have ceased to be surprised at mankind's seemingly limitless capacity for sordid hatefulness.