All morals & principles are biased, self-serving - Exhibit 2 - The Dog and the Cow

[pood]

Those poor powerless Hindus in India, being oppressed by the Islamic minority, just like the Christians in the USA are.

If only some of them could somehow get elected to office.

My heart bleeds for their plight, and their complete lack of any voice (apart from their almost total stranglehold on every form of speech there is, obviously).

I am sorry that is not what I wrote
I talk about the coverage of the western media - which is biased towards their Abrahamic religions

Oh, so you are complaining about Western media? Which ones? Media in the U.S. are most definitely NOT dominated by Christians, especially among the working stiffs, and as for Muslims, forget it. You do know what a hate-on huge numbers of Americans have for Muslims, I presume?

In Pakistan blasphemy laws are being used to target minorities - wives, children, mothers forced to watch
their sons being lynched right in front of them
One time the mob targeted a Hindu for blasphemy but the police got to him first, threw him in jail
I assume he died there
But then the mob turned its wrath on the Hindu neighborhood - shops, temples, schools attacked and damaged/destroyed
The media here did not cover it
We see the bias, the discrimination
The only time people like you get it is if YOUR people are being abused - THEN everyone must sympathize

Now I have no idea where you live. Is it Pakistan?

 

[pood]

Oh, wait, it’s Chicago!

 

[Ramaraksha]

.
I have posted how those who chase after Heaven end up as lower life forms like Dogs
Hope you have read that

Yes, I did read that. That’s why I asked for clarification. In your latest post you say there is no evidence for reincarnation. Yet here you conclude that those who chase after heaven will end up as a “lower life form” like dogs.

First. l want to point out again to you, since you don’t seem to listen to others, that biology recognizes no lower life forms or higher life forms. Please meditate on that. Also again consider the fact that the vast majority of the biota is parasitical, but that does NOT include dogs.

Now, again, in your post above, it appears you DO believe in reincarnation.

Do you, or don’t you?

And I replied to this also - these are IDEAS - so far no evidence of God, Heaven, Hell nor Reincarnation
Heaven is the idea that we can run away from REAL LIFE and hide
Heaven is a metaphor for the Womb, Childhood
The story of Adam - a young man who comes of age and must now leave the nest
Religions like Christianity & Islam say we can run back to our childhood - a Nanny God will be happy to keep us
fed, protected, sheltered, cared for & keep us in a bubble shielded from the big bad REAL WORLD
Again, the same way our Parents cared for us, shielded us
.
Reincarnation is the idea that THERE IS ONLY ONE WORLD, THIS ONE!
You want life, here it is
Running away won't work
But if both ideas are true, then there is no need for God to create an entire world where billions of people
just sit around doing nothing - shamelessly sponging off God
They can do it here on earth, as dogs or viruses as you mentioned
.
"no lower life forms or higher life forms"
Lower in the sense of lesser intelligence, less brain power - basic Hinduism
Hindus think we move from beings of lower intelligence to higher & yes one can move from higher to lower also
So a microscopic bug is basically a robot - no brain whatsoever
Then a tree, a beetle perhaps - a bit more brain power?
Then a Dog & then US and so on
Hinduism and what Nietzsche also read & wrote about, was that we can move to a higher level
But we must want it - as at each level Pain & suffering will increase!
And so those who want less of pain & suffering are going down to lower life forms
Less brain, less pain & suffering
.
"parasitical, but that does NOT include dogs."
As for parasites - one must earn our own food, defend themselves from predators, stand on their own two feet - dogs in the wild do so
Most life forms do so
Any life form that depends on others for food, shelter & safety is a parasite
The Dog as a Pet is a parasite - it is totally dependent on us for food, safety, shelter
Without us I doubt the dog would survive

 

[pood]

.
Reincarnation is the idea that THERE IS ONLY ONE WORLD, THIS ONE!

OK, fine. Do you believe we are reincarnated again and again into this world?

You want life, here it is
Running away won't work
But if both ideas are true, then there is no need for God to create an entire world where billions of people
just sit around doing nothing - shamelessly sponging off God
They can do it here on earth, as dogs or viruses as you mentioned
.
"no lower life forms or higher life forms"
Lower in the sense of lesser intelligence, less brain power - basic Hinduism

Is that claim basic Hinduism? I’ll have to check. Because you see, evaluating the relative status of species based on brain power is bogus. It’s human parochialism. Not only do many species have power and abilities far beyond ours, a great many species are highly intelligent.

.
"parasitical, but that does NOT include dogs."
As for parasites - one must earn our own food, defend themselves from predators, stand on their own two feet - dogs in the wild do so
Most life forms do so

Most life forms DO NOT DO SO. Again, do you read what others write carefully, or do you just skim over to cherry pick points you want to respond to?

Any life form that depends on others for food, shelter & safety is a parasite

NO IT IS NOT. We ourselves depend on others for food, shelter and safety.

The Dog as a Pet is a parasite - it is totally dependent on us for food, safety, shelter
Without us I doubt the dog would survive

A dog is NOT a parasite, nor was it “forced” to work for us or become pets. As has repeatedly been explained to you, dogs and humans are co-evolved as partners.

 

[Elixir]

Cows, chickens, pigs have as much right to live as do Dogs

Cows and birds are really hard to train not to shit in the house.

 

[pood]

Parasitism dominates animal lifestyles.

 

[Elixir]

Cows would probably be extinct if it wasn’t for the fact that they taste so good.

 

[pood]

Hindus, allowing for the usual variants of belief among all religions, believe that humans are “spiritually” more developed than other animals, but that all animals have the “spiritual” in them. So we are higher than them “spiritually.”

Depending how one defines this slippery word “spiritual,” I’d say that dogs are clearly spiritually higher than humans.

 

[Ramaraksha]

.
Reincarnation is the idea that THERE IS ONLY ONE WORLD, THIS ONE!

OK, fine. Do you believe we are reincarnated again and again into this world?

Oh God! It's an IDEA - we discuss ideas
I am a curious person - I ask myself - most religions preach heaven - sounds wonderful, why would anyone have a problem with it?
So why do Hindus preach Reincarnation?
Because that is not the life they saw - they didn't see viruses - all they saw were life forms fending for themselves
And that gave them the idea of Reincarnation - that we cannot run back to Mommy
If you notice, we can't turn back time - we can't run back to our childhood
We can only move forward into the future

You want life, here it is
Running away won't work
But if both ideas are true, then there is no need for God to create an entire world where billions of people
just sit around doing nothing - shamelessly sponging off God
They can do it here on earth, as dogs or viruses as you mentioned
.
"no lower life forms or higher life forms"
Lower in the sense of lesser intelligence, less brain power - basic Hinduism

Is that claim basic Hinduism? I’ll have to check. Because you see, evaluating the relative status of species based on brain power is bogus. It’s human parochialism. Not only do many species have power and abilities far beyond ours, a great many species are highly intelligent.

Again, this is about different people having different ideas - you are entitled to a different view & so do others
This is what ancient Hindus thought & I do as well - the difference in intelligence is there for ALL to see, well, with certain exceptions, lol

.
"parasitical, but that does NOT include dogs."
As for parasites - one must earn our own food, defend themselves from predators, stand on their own two feet - dogs in the wild do so
Most life forms do so

Most life forms DO NOT DO SO. Again, do you read what others write carefully, or do you just skim over to cherry pick points you want to respond to?

Again it is not about what most life forms do - what most Hindus saw back then thousands of years ago
They had no clue about viruses - microscopic life forms were alien to them
What they saw is what we see with our own eyes - life forms living, working to get food, stay out of danger, procreation
Very few animals were dependents on others for food, safety and shelter - except when we are helpless children
And this idea that we can run back to childhood & remain there for eternity - Hindus saw it as cowardice, weakness

Any life form that depends on others for food, shelter & safety is a parasite

NO IT IS NOT. We ourselves depend on others for food, shelter and safety.

The Dog as a Pet is a parasite - it is totally dependent on us for food, safety, shelter
Without us I doubt the dog would survive

A dog is NOT a parasite, nor was it “forced” to work for us or become pets. As has repeatedly been explained to you, dogs and humans are co-evolved as par

3 types of relationships
1 - There are wild dogs that live in africa and Australia - they are like any wild pack animals - wolves, lions etc - they hunt, raise families, defend themselves - nothing to do with us
2 - Then there are Feral Dogs - we have them in India and other poor countries - these dogs are not pets - they live in the streets, they don't have names - they are dependent on us for food - people throw out food, garbage and the dogs feed on them
In return they stay awake at night and warn people of danger - that is a RELATIONSHIP - you give me this benefit, I do this
THAT was how this started & that is where it should have ended
.
3 - They were brought into our houses - now they depend on us for food, shelter, protection, care - most are not even guard dogs anymore
That is a parasitic relationship - where one gets the full benefit but gives back nothing
Kinda of like living in Heaven - unless we are pets of God, lol
We deny them a family, the poor bitches have babies and before they can enjoy motherhood, we take away their babies!
Would we do that to a human mother?
Most male dogs do not even realize that they are fathers
We force them to live apart from their own kind, we, of course, get to
We have forced them to make our family, their family - whether they cared to or not
All this is wrong! wrong! wrong!

 

[Ramaraksha]

Parasitism dominates animal lifestyles.

This is about religions teaching us to become better people
That was the intention of most religions
It is not about what is dominant, it is about what we choose to do
Most religions teach us to tell the Truth, be kind to others, help out etc etc
Hinduism is asking us to reach for the Hand of God
But like anything, there is a cost - the closer one gets to God, the more pain & suffering
We see this in all religions - stories of men and women who want to be with God & then suffer terribly
ALL religions have such stories!
That is a tell - want to be with God? Then you must face suffering
Where is Jesus? In the leper colony - no, he is not in Heaven enjoying a glass of champagne
That is what most religious people want Jesus to be - so that they "love Jesus" and happily get to enjoy the good life in Heaven
Hinduism says otherwise

 

[pood]

.

.
3 - They were brought into our houses - now they depend on us for food, shelter, protection, care - most are not even guard dogs anymore
That is a parasitic relationship - where one gets the full benefit but gives back nothing

1. Do you, or do you not, believe in a literal reincarnation?

2. As to your claim above, it’s total bullshit. Putting aside the fact that there are plenty of working dogs in many fields, to say that our pet dogs give us nothing back is astonishingly wrong and just plain weird. Just ask any dog owner and lover what their dogs give back to them, what wonderful benefits humans reap from pet dogs.

 

[pood]

Parasitism dominates animal lifestyles.

This is about religions teaching us to become better people
That was the intention of most religions
It is not about what is dominant, it is about what we choose to do

You came here banging on about how nature “intends” all living things to “stand on their own two feet.”

Apart from the fact that nature intends nothing, we find that even if it did, it “intends” parasitism.

 

[bilby]

Yabut "people like you".

Thanks. I always strive to be likeable.

 

[bilby]

The only time people like you get it is if YOUR people are being abused

"My people" is everyone, so I am not seeing a problem here.

ALL minorities in Pakistan are abused - not just Hindus

Yeah, that happens in theocracies.

If this happened to a Christian would you feel the same? - honest now

Yes.

Why would you expect me to be dishonest?

Why would you expect me to have a different attitude towards Christians than I have towards Muslims?

A Christian minister was shot dead in Pak for blasphemy

As I said, theocracies suck.

Christians and even some Muslims have been lynched for blasphemy

Yeah, blasphemy needs to be embraced, and those who would persecute blasphemers need to go fuck themselves, and their gods too if they can find an orifice.

That is not right - and what is horrible is the lack of coverage, the lack of outrage

There's no lack of either. Perhaps you are looking in the wrong places.

But article after article devoted to "how Muslims are being deprived of meat"

Yeah, Muslims are allowed an opinion too. Doesn't mean anyone has to agree.

 

[bilby]

Cows would probably be extinct if it wasn’t for the fact that they taste so good.

Yeah, no domesticated animal has ever gone extinct. Tasting good to humans is, bizarrely, quite an effective evolutionary niche in an environment with lots of humans.

 

[pood]

Cows would probably be extinct if it wasn’t for the fact that they taste so good.

Yeah, no domesticated animal has ever gone extinct. Tasting good to humans is, bizarrely, quite an effective evolutionary niche in an environment with lots of humans.

It’s not so good for the individuals but evolution operates on populations. So, us eating cows probably keeps the species as a whole going.

 

[pood]

.

Again it is not about what most life forms do - what most Hindus saw back then thousands of years ago
They had no clue about viruses - microscopic life forms were alien to them

You, living in the 21st century and not thousands of years ago, have no such excuse. That didn’t stop you from coming here and banging on about what nature “intends.” And what you said it intends, is not what nature is at all. Also, again, it can’t be stressed enough that nature “intends” nothing

 

[southernhybrid]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-67920167

There are some people who opposed the ban, but it appears as if more people realize that dogs are one of our closest friends or family members so things have changed a lot. Maybe one day we will stop eating beef, not just because we have sympathy for cows, but because red meat isn't very healthy, and the methane emitted from cows has a negative impact on the environment. People used to eat horses too, but I've not even seen it in dog food in many years. I don't like that some people still eat lamb, but I'm not going to condemn them for that. Hunting deer is probably a better way to go if we must eat meat, as our deer population in the US is a big problem, especially since many of the deer predators have decreased in number in recent decades. Hunting deer is probably more humane compared to how factory farms treat the animals that are raised for food. Humans are good at fucking things up. Dogs not so much.

The slaughter and sale of dogs for their meat is to become illegal in South Korea after MPs backed a new law.
The legislation, set to come into force by 2027, aims to end the centuries-old practice of humans eating dog meat.
Dog meat stew, called "boshintang", is considered a delicacy among some older South Koreans, but the meat has fallen out of favour with diners and is no longer popular with young people.
Under the new law the consumption of dog meat itself will not be illegal.
According to a Gallup poll last year, only 8% of people said they had tried dog meat in the past 12 months, down from 27% in 2015. Fewer than a fifth of those polled said they supported the consumption of the meat.
Lee Chae-yeon, a 22-year-old student, said the ban was necessary to promote animal rights. "More people have pets today," she told the BBC in Seoul. "Dogs are like family now and it's not nice to eat our family."
The new law focuses on the dog meat trade - those convicted of butchering dogs face up to three years in prison, while people found guilty of raising dogs for meat or selling dog meat could serve a maximum of two years.
Farmers and restaurant owners have three years to find alternative sources of employment and income before the legislation comes into force.
According to government statistics, South Korea had around 1,600 dog meat restaurants and 1,150 dog farms in 2023, all of which will now have to submit a plan to phase out their businesses to their local authorities.
The government has promised to fully support dog meat farmers, butchers and restaurant owners, whose businesses will be forced to close, though the details of what compensation will be offered have yet to be worked through.

 

[Bronzeage]

Without regard to the morality of the matter, the only advantage of eating a cow is there is a lot to eat, compared to any other domestic animal. Sometimes this is a disadvantage, such as for a small group during hot weather. Most of the meat will spoil before it can be processed.

Modern technology has pretty much eliminated that problem, but in terms of economic input for the amount of meat produced, beef is the least efficient use of resources. In pre-modern times, a cow was a grass processing machine that provided the raw material for cheese, butter, and yogurt. Eating a cow was much the same as killing the goose that lays golden eggs. It was only when the cow was too old to produce milk, that she became food. This only applies to cows, because no one wants or needs a surplus of bulls. The fatted calf was always a young bull.

It is only the benefits of modern technology, which includes refrigeration, transportation, and most of all, intensive grain production, that allows the average American(and other nations as well) to eat beef in one form or another, practically any day of the week. The grain fed to a cow/steer in the feed lots would provide many more meals than the weight in meat they gain while waiting to be slaughtered.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Views objecting to the above are not allowed!

Yes, strangely, you just expressed the very view you say is not allowed.

You didn't follow the whole post - by not giving Hindus a chance to express why they feel differently
this media did not allow a different view to be expressed

What you're actually seeing is the pattern we see repeatedly, the media are afraid of saying anything bad about Islam, or presenting things which disagree with Islam. There are an awful lot of Muslim eyes they don't want to turn away and there are enough hotheads that mean those who most offend them (truth is irrelevant) are sometimes subject to violence. The vast majority of Islam is fine but there are enough that aren't that there's a lot of kowtowing going on.