All morals & principles are biased, self-serving - Exhibit 2 - The Dog and the Cow

[Ramaraksha]

The point of these posts is that just a simple change in a word, a name is enough to make people change their views entirely,
drop all their morals, values!
India banned the killing of cows a few years ago
The western media threw a fit! They came at us full blast!
Every article was from a Muslim point of view - "this is so wrong, not right. This should not be allowed"
"Eating whatever we want is a human right" from people who ban the eating of Pigs
Hindus never got a word in
Readers can check - pull up online newspaper articles or the BBC site and look them up -
the majority Hindus never got a word in!
.
It is like Christians trying to stop abortions here in the US
Sure, articles are written against what they are doing, but they don't get views from minorities
They ask the majority - Christians who are against what they are doing & they will also include views
from Christians supporting the banning of abortions, why they think abortions are wrong
Both sides get their view
But not in India's case - the articles were ALL one-sided
.
But let us change the word Cow to a Dog and see what happens
A sea-change - countries where the dog is a delicacy - I believe Korea and China - are condemned
for this "barbaric, inhumane" act
It must not be allowed - such a practice should be banned
And here again we get a one-sided view - from the viewpoint of Dog lovers, animal rights people
The latter who strangely remain silent about the Indian law - doesn't the cow deserve the same love?
The Chinese, Koreans never got a say in this!
.
If they had a say what would they say?
That ALL animals feel pain the same way? A dog does not feel pain more than a Cow or a chicken or a Pig
Lobsters are dumped into hot boiling water - ALIVE!
Try putting a hook thru a dog's jaw and yank it around! Blood flowing, the dog screaming in pain!
You would be called pure evil and the cops will show up to arrest you
But do that to a fish? Fun, fun, fun!
.
We still live in a Might Makes Right world
It has been decided that the Dog is a Pet - it must not be eaten
It has been decided that the cow is food animal - so is a chicken, pig, lobster & so fair game
Views objecting to the above are not allowed!

 

[pood]

Views objecting to the above are not allowed!

Yes, strangely, you just expressed the very view you say is not allowed.

 

[TomC]

India banned the killing of cows a few years ago
The western media threw a fit! They came at us full blast!

The problem I have with this is the Indian government banning a food source when so many people are hungry.
If Hindu people don't want to kill or eat beef no problem. It's the forcing others to adhere to their own irrational views that I object to.
Tom

 

[WAB]

I actually think Ramaraksha is making sense. I do also think that their posts would be more accessible if they were formatted as paragraphs, and with much less exclamation points.

Ramaraksha! People will be more inclined to pay attention to you if you use less! Exclamation points! Some famous poet said that a poet should limit themselves to! Two exclamation points per poem!

 

[Ramaraksha]

Views objecting to the above are not allowed!

Yes, strangely, you just expressed the very view you say is not allowed.

You didn't follow the whole post - by not giving Hindus a chance to express why they feel differently
this media did not allow a different view to be expressed

 

[pood]

Views objecting to the above are not allowed!

Yes, strangely, you just expressed the very view you say is not allowed.

You didn't follow the whole post - by not giving Hindus a chance to express why they feel differently
this media did not allow a different view to be expressed

I don’t know what country’s media you are talking about. India.

BTW, do you believe in reincarnation? Because if so, that is just as unevidenced as Christianity.

 

[Ramaraksha]

India banned the killing of cows a few years ago
The western media threw a fit! They came at us full blast!

The problem I have with this is the Indian government banning a food source when so many people are hungry.
If Hindu people don't want to kill or eat beef no problem. It's the forcing others to adhere to their own irrational views that I object to.
Tom

yes and MANY HINDUS did object to the law but their views did not make it to publication
And many or maybe not so many Muslims did support the law- there ARE vegetarian Muslims who do feel for animals & their suffering
But again they were shut out as well
.
The point is that here, say regarding Abortion - both sides get a chance to express their views
Regarding this law - only one side was presented & that too as a MUSLIM view point
.
Basically using a broad brush - "ALL Hindus support this law, ALL Muslims hate this law"
We are more like animals - all animals act the same - we are not seen as human beings with diff views, likes, dislikes
"Hindus as the majority are punishing Muslims!"
And the result? Religious hate!
This media was actively trying to promote Religious hate!
Hoping for such hate to spill out - maybe children would get killed, women raped!
Maybe some Muslim sitting in Pakistan or Saudi would read such articles and think "Oh My God, these evil Hindus
are killing Muslims!"
Go pick up a gun and start killing!
That is what they were hoping would happen!
.
As for going hungry - there are other meat sources available - Chicken, Fish & of course vegetarian food
And Pork of course - but it is ok for Muslims and Jews to ban THAT food source in THEIR countries, correct?
And for us to ban Dog meat as a food source for Koreans and Chinese living here?

 

[Ramaraksha]

I don’t know what country’s media you are talking about. India.

BTW, do you believe in reincarnation? Because if so, that is just as unevidenced as Christianity.

I have replied to this before maybe not to you
As you said, there is no evidence for God, Heaven, Hell nor Reincarnation
ALL religious ideas came from earth
Hence the Christian/Muslim God who acts just like a Dictator, King - "Believe in me, support me & me only, submit, obey & sing
my praises & be rewarded or else!"
Ancient people living under Kings, Dictators used them as a template for God
.
People are afraid of death, what would happen to us?
And so these religions came up with fantasy lands in the sky where the living will be easy - an eternal life of comfort! ooh!
But of course, you get that ONLY if you believe in OUR God! Believe & support only him and no one else!
For people living under Kings, Dictators demanding the same, it was an easy transition, it made sense to them
.
Doesn't make any sense now with people living in free democracies
But ah the power of Religious brainwashing gets to even the best of us
.
Anyway, ancient Hindus understood such fantasy lands for what they are - just fantasies
They saw it as running away from REAL LIFE
Just like we see some church members, Heaven's Gate members killing themselves trying to get to such magic lands,
maybe back then too some people killed themselves trying to get to Heaven
Well, Hindus saw it as cowardice
And so Reincarnation - you are not going anywhere
After Death, back you come!
No nice Sugar Daddy Gods forgiving your mistakes, wiping away your debts
YOU made these debts, YOU gave your word to repay them - you MUST do so
YOU made mistakes that hurt your victims, YOU must come back and correct them
Make the victim whole! DO THE RIGHT THING!
.
Whatever it is, the end result was that Reincarnation stresses LIFE - REAL LIFE
The Life that we lead now - a life where we WORK, PAY for what we eat, a roof over our heads
EARN what we desire
We do not beg, we do not live off Charity
Heaven contradicts ALL the above - hence a Fantasy of the weak, the coward
.
I have posted how those who chase after Heaven end up as lower life forms like Dogs
Hope you have read that

 

[WAB]

!

 

[bilby]

Those poor powerless Hindus in India, being oppressed by the Islamic minority, just like the Christians in the USA are.

If only some of them could somehow get elected to office.

My heart bleeds for their plight, and their complete lack of any voice (apart from their almost total stranglehold on every form of speech there is, obviously).

 

[Ramaraksha]

Those poor powerless Hindus in India, being oppressed by the Islamic minority, just like the Christians in the USA are.

If only some of them could somehow get elected to office.

My heart bleeds for their plight, and their complete lack of any voice (apart from their almost total stranglehold on every form of speech there is, obviously).

I am sorry that is not what I wrote
I talk about the coverage of the western media - which is biased towards their Abrahamic religions
In Pakistan blasphemy laws are being used to target minorities - wives, children, mothers forced to watch
their sons being lynched right in front of them
One time the mob targeted a Hindu for blasphemy but the police got to him first, threw him in jail
I assume he died there
But then the mob turned its wrath on the Hindu neighborhood - shops, temples, schools attacked and damaged/destroyed
The media here did not cover it
We see the bias, the discrimination
The only time people like you get it is if YOUR people are being abused - THEN everyone must sympathize

 

[southernhybrid]

Life ain't fair Rama. It just isn't.

Regarding your thoughts about cows and dogs. Think of it this way. Humans did evolve to be omnivores, so eating some animals is part of most people's diet. I feel guilty eating meat, but since I'm chronically anemic, I do eat it a few times a week. When I buy it, I try to find the type that is raised openly and slaughtered humanely. Until recently it was hard to obtain a very healthy plant based diet. Once humans evolved to hunt and eat meat, there is evidence that our brains developed more or grew more complex. It's been awhile since I've read about that, so I apologize for not having all the details. Of course, you are free to look that up.

As we've said before, there is a lot of evidence that dogs evolved to be our companions, to protect us, and even to work for us. We love them and they love us, especially if treated well by us. So, most humans have. very different viewpoints regarding eating our best friends and eating an animal that grazes in the fields or swims in the sea etc. Unless we can all get off the meat, this is the situation we face. Btw, Eating dog meat has been banned in South Korea, but it will take a couple years for it to totally go into effect.

Some animals rights group do advocate for ending the eating of meat. Some simply want more humane treatment for the raising of animals that will be eaten, as well as more humane methods of killing those animals. It's complicated.

And, humans aren't the only animals who eat other animals. Dogs don't do well on a vagan diet. Most wild animals are carnivores or omnivores. Hawks will even kill and eat a tiny dog if given the opportunity. That's the type of world we live in.

Those of. us who understand dogs don't consider them a lower life form. How many times must we explain that to you? Animals are interdependent. Dogs evolved to be our companions. Large predators need prey animals to eat to survive. If it were not for the large predators, including some humans, we would all be overrun by deer. That's the way of the world.

 

[bilby]

The only time people like you get it is if YOUR people are being abused

"My people" is everyone, so I am not seeing a problem here.

 

[Elixir]

The only time people like you get it is if YOUR people are being abused

"My people" is everyone, so I am not seeing a problem here.

Yabut "people like you". (Always a giveaway.)

Humans did evolve to be omnivores

Humans did NOT evolve "to" (in order to) be omnivores. Humans are omnivores because they had to eat stuff to survive, and developed the biological ability to extract nutrition from a wide range of sources by natural selection.
I know you didn't mean to imply the "in order to" part, SH.
It's just really hard to speak about evolutionary processes with precision, and imprecision gives means to denyers and ignorants to muddy the waters. I do it all the time.

 

[Elixir]

We still live in a Might Makes Right world
It has been decided that the Dog is a Pet - it must not be eaten
It has been decided that the cow is food animal - so is a chicken, pig, lobster & so fair game
Views objecting to the above are not allowed!

WUT? That's off base as you yourself pointed out>
In large parts of Asia, representing some large fraction of all humanity, dogs are food.
To an overlapping large fraction, cows are sacred.
Almost anything that moves is considered food by some population.
Almost any specific thing that moves is forbidden as food by some population.
Saying some view about it is "not allowed" is ridiculous without specifying by whom it is disallowed.
There is no universal allowance or forbiddance except maybe cannibalism, and even that gets a token nod from Christians who ritually devour symbols of "the body of Christ". (At least its symbolic... )

 

[Ramaraksha]

Life ain't fair Rama. It just isn't.

Regarding your thoughts about cows and dogs. Think of it this way. Humans did evolve to be omnivores, so eating some animals is part of most people's diet. I feel guilty eating meat, but since I'm chronically anemic, I do eat it a few times a week. When I buy it, I try to find the type that is raised openly and slaughtered humanely. Until recently it was hard to obtain a very healthy plant based diet. Once humans evolved to hunt and eat meat, there is evidence that our brains developed more or grew more complex. It's been awhile since I've read about that, so I apologize for not having all the details. Of course, you are free to look that up.

As we've said before, there is a lot of evidence that dogs evolved to be our companions, to protect us, and even to work for us. We love them and they love us, especially if treated well by us. So, most humans have. very different viewpoints regarding eating our best friends and eating an animal that grazes in the fields or swims in the sea etc. Unless we can all get off the meat, this is the situation we face. Btw, Eating dog meat has been banned in South Korea, but it will take a couple years for it to totally go into effect.

Some animals rights group do advocate for ending the eating of meat. Some simply want more humane treatment for the raising of animals that will be eaten, as well as more humane methods of killing those animals. It's complicated.

And, humans aren't the only animals who eat other animals. Dogs don't do well on a vagan diet. Most wild animals are carnivores or omnivores. Hawks will even kill and eat a tiny dog if given the opportunity. That's the type of world we live in.

Those of. us who understand dogs don't consider them a lower life form. How many times must we explain that to you? Animals are interdependent. Dogs evolved to be our companions. Large predators need prey animals to eat to survive. If it were not for the large predators, including some humans, we would all be overrun by deer. That's the way of the world.

BTW - I am not a vegetarian, I do eat meat - but that was not the point of the post
My point - we are biased - our morals are flexible
If you think about it the Cow has done MORE to benefit us than the Dog
Civilization flourished because of the cow - so many books on slavery - all about human slaves - but none talk of
animal slavery - we exploited the cow, the bull and the drought horse as well as the dog
We Force cows to work in our fields for a few grains of food, we take their milk for our benefit
Once we learnt to work the fields, became farmers, we settled in one place
People found that not everyone needed to be farmers, they could do other things that benefit these large
gatherings of people - civilization flourished
That is why in the Vedas, the Fire and the Cow are revered
Control of fire allowed humans to come out of the caves, they were afraid of wild animals no more
And just because it does not wag its tail to us does not mean its rights as a life form should be overlooked
It has done more to benefit us than the Dog & yet it is treated horribly
.
"dogs evolved to be our companions, to protect us" did they?
Or we just forced them to be? They are pack animals, we took away their God-given pack and replaced it with ourselves
"work for us" - well, what is new right? We exploit most animals this way
.
Point is that cows, chickens, pigs - ALL feel pain the same way as the dog
But our love for an animal that gives us companionship, love, affection makes us treat it differently
To me, just because an animal ignores me does not mean that I get to abuse it whichever way i want
That is simply not right - I love animals for who they are not for their wagging tails
I am sure many cat lovers would agree
.
"who understand dogs don't consider them a lower life form" I think you missed my answer - here it is
"Lower" in the sense of brain power, intelligence, more pain & suffering - this is basic Hinduism that Nietzsche must have read & understood
Basically Hinduism says life goes from a lower brain power to a higher one
So a microscopic bug is basically a robot - move, find something to eat, stay out of danger, procreate & that's about it
And then a bit higher, maybe a tree, small insect - a bit more intelligence
Then a rodent, then a dog and so on - you get the picture - finally us - hence the dog being a "lower life form"
.
What Hinduism is saying is we can move higher - more intelligence
The higher we go, the closer we get to God, the more pain & suffering
And so to me, Christians and Muslims are going the opposite way - they seek less pain & suffering
Ending up as lower life forms

 

[Ramaraksha]

The only time people like you get it is if YOUR people are being abused

"My people" is everyone, so I am not seeing a problem here.

ALL minorities in Pakistan are abused - not just Hindus
If this happened to a Christian would you feel the same? - honest now
A Christian minister was shot dead in Pak for blasphemy
Christians and even some Muslims have been lynched for blasphemy
That is not right - and what is horrible is the lack of coverage, the lack of outrage
But article after article devoted to "how Muslims are being deprived of meat"

 

[Ramaraksha]

WUT? That's off base as you yourself pointed out>
In large parts of Asia, representing some large fraction of all humanity, dogs are food.
To an overlapping large fraction, cows are sacred.
Almost anything that moves is considered food by some population.
Almost any specific thing that moves is forbidden as food by some population.
Saying some view about it is "not allowed" is ridiculous without specifying by whom it is disallowed.
There is no universal allowance or forbiddance except maybe cannibalism, and even that gets a token nod from Christians who ritually devour symbols of "the body of Christ". (At least its symbolic... )

I doubt it is large parts of Asia, to my knowledge only in Korea & China
And they are under heavy fire from the western media and animal rights groups for doing so
My point is that Dogs are not special - they should not be treated any differently
Cows, chickens, pigs have as much right to live as do Dogs

 

[pood]

.
I have posted how those who chase after Heaven end up as lower life forms like Dogs
Hope you have read that

Yes, I did read that. That’s why I asked for clarification. In your latest post you say there is no evidence for reincarnation. Yet here you conclude that those who chase after heaven will end up as a “lower life form” like dogs.

First. l want to point out again to you, since you don’t seem to listen to others, that biology recognizes no lower life forms or higher life forms. Please meditate on that. Also again consider the fact that the vast majority of the biota is parasitical, but that does NOT include dogs.

Now, again, in your post above, it appears you DO believe in reincarnation.

Do you, or don’t you?

 

[pood]

Those poor powerless Hindus in India, being oppressed by the Islamic minority, just like the Christians in the USA are.

If only some of them could somehow get elected to office.

My heart bleeds for their plight, and their complete lack of any voice (apart from their almost total stranglehold on every form of speech there is, obviously).

It wasn’t immediately clear to me what nation he was writing about, though I guessed India. If he lives in India, his claim that most media are Christian/Muslin is to laugh, and his claim that he is being somehow censored is equally risible.