A Green New Deal?

[lpetrich]

What's the 'Green New Deal' and why do environmentalists want it? | MPR News

The proposal calls for a new House select committee to draft broad legislation that would make the United States economy carbon-neutral and remove greenhouse gases already in the atmosphere and oceans.

...
This proposal likely faces gargantuan roadblocks in Congress — from wealthy oil-industry lobbyists to climate-science-denying members of Congress to moderate Democrats who don't believe the plan is necessary.

The proposal includes more than renewable-energy development.

For example, Ocasio-Cortez's proposal calls for a job-guarantee program to be included in any Green New Deal legislation. It also calls for universal health care and basic income programs, as well as labor union involvement.

Her draft also acknowledges that climate change disproportionately harms low-income people and communities of color, and says any Green New Deal legislation must account for the disparities.

Her proposal is at A Green New Deal | Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez It includes:

• 100% of national power generation from renewable sources;
• building a national, energy-efficient, “smart” grid;
• upgrading every residential and industrial building for state-of-the-art energy efficiency, comfort and safety;
• decarbonizing the manufacturing, agricultural and other industries;
• decarbonizing, repairing and improving transportation and other infrastructure;
• funding massive investment in the drawdown and capture of greenhouse gases;
• making “green” technology, industry, expertise, products and services a major export of the United States, with the aim of becoming the undisputed international leader in helping other countries transition to completely carbon neutral economies and bringing about a global Green New Deal.

 

[untermensche]

Whether it is politically possible or not it should be a goal.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Whether it is politically possible or not it should be a goal.

Correct. The Dems need to start marketing themselves as being for something instead of just being the people who aren't Donald Trump. They have to push ideas like this in order to define themselves in a positive way as agents of change who have goals and ideas.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

What's the 'Green New Deal' and why do environmentalists want it? | MPR News

The proposal calls for a new House select committee to draft broad legislation that would make the United States economy carbon-neutral and remove greenhouse gases already in the atmosphere and oceans.

...
This proposal likely faces gargantuan roadblocks in Congress — from wealthy oil-industry lobbyists to climate-science-denying members of Congress to moderate Democrats who don't believe the plan is necessary.

The proposal includes more than renewable-energy development.

For example, Ocasio-Cortez's proposal calls for a job-guarantee program to be included in any Green New Deal legislation. It also calls for universal health care and basic income programs, as well as labor union involvement.

Her draft also acknowledges that climate change disproportionately harms low-income people and communities of color, and says any Green New Deal legislation must account for the disparities.

Her proposal is at A Green New Deal | Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez It includes:

• 100% of national power generation from renewable sources;
• building a national, energy-efficient, “smart” grid;
• upgrading every residential and industrial building for state-of-the-art energy efficiency, comfort and safety;
• decarbonizing the manufacturing, agricultural and other industries;
• decarbonizing, repairing and improving transportation and other infrastructure;
• funding massive investment in the drawdown and capture of greenhouse gases;
• making “green” technology, industry, expertise, products and services a major export of the United States, with the aim of becoming the undisputed international leader in helping other countries transition to completely carbon neutral economies and bringing about a global Green New Deal.

Great move on her part. She may bring some of the Green vote to the Democrats. THIS is how you defeat the Green Party. You take their platform, and mean it.

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Whether it is politically possible or not it should be a goal.

Correct. The Dems need to start marketing themselves as being for something instead of just being the people who aren't Donald Trump. They have to push ideas like this in order to define themselves in a positive way as agents of change who have goals and ideas.

Yes, very much this too. They need a POSITIVE message. That is what has always sold people to vote for Democrats. Fear mongering is far more geared towards the Republican vote. It is as simple as the difference between liberal and conservative. To get the liberal vote out in big enough numbers to win, Democrats need to push for hope and change.

 

[TSwizzle]

She sounds like an eco-warrior crank. Totally unrealistic, pie in the sky wishful thinking.

 

[lpetrich]

She sounds like an eco-warrior crank. Totally unrealistic, pie in the sky wishful thinking.

Why is that so?

 

[Trausti]

She sounds like an eco-warrior crank. Totally unrealistic, pie in the sky wishful thinking.

Why is that so?

So we'll cool/heat our homes and generate the power to run our cars and businesses with unicorn farts?

 

[ZiprHead]

She sounds like an eco-warrior crank. Totally unrealistic, pie in the sky wishful thinking.

Why is that so?

So we'll cool/heat our homes and generate the power to run our cars and businesses with unicorn farts?

Solar, wind, hydro, nuclear. Were you intending to appear stupid about these things?

 

[Trausti]

So we'll cool/heat our homes and generate the power to run our cars and businesses with unicorn farts?

Solar, wind, hydro, nuclear. Were you intending to appear stupid about these things?

Are you under some delusion that these are new technologies? If these were to spare us the need for carbon fuels, it would have happened already. How much taxpayer money did Obama hand over to these firms? In WA we've got hydro, wind, and coal. Hydro is great - if you've got the geography for it. The wind turbines sit mostly still. This is just a money grab; and, as apparent here, there are useful idiots willing to take the bait.

 

[ZiprHead]

So we'll cool/heat our homes and generate the power to run our cars and businesses with unicorn farts?

Solar, wind, hydro, nuclear. Were you intending to appear stupid about these things?

Are you under some delusion that these are new technologies? If these were to spare us the need for carbon fuels, it would have happened already. How much taxpayer money did Obama hand over to these firms? In WA we've got hydro, wind, and coal. Hydro is great - if you've got the geography for it. The wind turbines sit mostly still. This is just a money grab; and, as apparent here, there are useful idiots willing to take the bait.

Washington Is Outdoing California and Texas in Renewable Energy

Stupid Washingtonians.

 

[TSwizzle]

She sounds like an eco-warrior crank. Totally unrealistic, pie in the sky wishful thinking.

Why is that so?

100% of national power generation from renewable sources;
building a national, energy-efficient, “smart” grid;
upgrading every residential and industrial building for state-of-the-art energy efficiency, comfort and safety;
decarbonizing the manufacturing, agricultural and other industries;
decarbonizing, repairing and improving transportation and other infrastructure;
funding massive investment in the drawdown and capture of greenhouse gases;
making “green” technology, industry, expertise, products and services a major export of the United States, with the aim of becoming the undisputed international leader in helping other countries transition to completely carbon neutral economies and bringing about a global Green New Deal.

Her draft also acknowledges that climate change disproportionately harms low-income people and communities of color, and says any Green New Deal legislation must account for the disparities.

Her ramblings are that of a crank.

 

[untermensche]

Goals are either achievable with effort or impossible.

They are not "crank".

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

She sounds like an eco-warrior crank. Totally unrealistic, pie in the sky wishful thinking.

Why is that so?

So we'll cool/heat our homes and generate the power to run our cars and businesses with unicorn farts?

With Donald Trump coal turds.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

So we'll cool/heat our homes and generate the power to run our cars and businesses with unicorn farts?

Solar, wind, hydro, nuclear. Were you intending to appear stupid about these things?

Are you under some delusion that these are new technologies? If these were to spare us the need for carbon fuels, it would have happened already. How much taxpayer money did Obama hand over to these firms? In WA we've got hydro, wind, and coal. Hydro is great - if you've got the geography for it. The wind turbines sit mostly still. This is just a money grab; and, as apparent here, there are useful idiots willing to take the bait.

Down here in Texas, 23% of our electricity is from wind and solar. And more is coming. Though wind has been around for centuries (windmills), it is only recently that efficient large wind generation has been technically feasible and economically viable. Solar even more so. You seem to have managed to remain utterly devoid of knowledge about the state of successful alternative energy progress world wide.

 

[thebeave]

I wonder if she's considering fusion in all this. Its just around the corner, I hear.

 

[Derec]

Solar, wind, hydro, nuclear. Were you intending to appear stupid about these things?

Except that the Greens take nuclear off the board for no good reason.

 

[ZiprHead]

Except that the Greens take nuclear off the board for no good reason.

Agreed. I used to agree with them about nuclear. Then I got better.

 

[Derec]

What's the 'Green New Deal' and why do environmentalists want it? | MPR News

Some of those are certainly laudable, but the issue is with the timescale. I do not see any estimate as to when they think for example "100% renewable power generation" can be achieved. Without that, the goals are pretty much window dressing.

For example, Ocasio-Cortez's proposal calls for a job-guarantee program to be included in any Green New Deal legislation. It also calls for universal health care and basic income programs, as well as labor union involvement.

Her draft also acknowledges that climate change disproportionately harms low-income people and communities of color, and says any Green New Deal legislation must account for the disparities.

This is also a bad idea. An energy plan should focus on energy, not throw an unrelated lefty wish list into the mix. That will not make it more likely to pass.

And speaking of both long timescales and having to get the thing passed, it must not be approached dogmatically. For that reason it is a pity that it has been taken by the likes of AOC and Ilhan "Israel has hypnotized the world" Omar.

We all understand that even if a Green New Deal is adopted it will still take decades to implement any major aspects of it. In the meantime we will still rely on carbon-based fuels for a lot of our energy needs. So don't oppose pipelines for example. We need them. Producing our oil in the US is better because it creates US jobs and leaves more of the money we spend on oil in domestic economy instead of sending it abroad. Instead, use it to make deals. Pipelines and domestic production for a carbon tax. And use proceeds from the carbon tax to fund the GND.
One last thing. Electric cars, indispensable for GND to work, need more copper than regular cars.

It is stupid for environmentalists to oppose copper mining.
San Carlos Apache Tribe, environmentalists battle Oak Flat copper mine bid
Same goes for mining of lithium or rare earth metals.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

She sounds like an eco-warrior crank. Totally unrealistic, pie in the sky wishful thinking.

Surprisingly, I find myself agreeing with you on something. This is hopeless dream rather than something that actually can be accomplished.

Among other things we simply do not have the technology at present for 100% renewable power.

 

[Elixir]

Are you under some delusion that these are new technologies?

Are you under some delusion that they are fully - or even significantly - implemented?