• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

Immigration Issues

More info here on the shooting of Ruben Martinez:
 
ICE in Minnesota arrested several Native Americans —and continued to hold them illegally in an attempt to force NA tribes to allow access to reservation land. Native Americans elsewhere in the US have been arrested with their tribal IDs confiscated or torn up, ICE insisting they were fake.

I’ll take “Things That Never Happened” for $500, Alex.
You won't be participating in Final Jeopardy. Google "ice arresting native americans".
Who needs Googling to find out if something happened, when you have vibes instead?

Who needs facts when you can just make stuff up.
 
ICE in Minnesota arrested several Native Americans —and continued to hold them illegally in an attempt to force NA tribes to allow access to reservation land. Native Americans elsewhere in the US have been arrested with their tribal IDs confiscated or torn up, ICE insisting they were fake.

I’ll take “Things That Never Happened” for $500, Alex.
You won't be participating in Final Jeopardy. Google "ice arresting native americans".
Who needs Googling to find out if something happened, when you have vibes instead?

Who needs facts when you can just make stuff up.
I wonder not if, but how much that would warp anyone. Trump and his cronies can say anything and suffer no consequences for it, so it's reasonable to think that they believe that if they say something, no matter how provably false it is, that it becomes truth for no other reason than because they said it.

For those on lower levels of his administration who know he's lying and aren't comfortable with it, it must be like a real life version of It's a Good Life.

There are about 10,000,000 easy analogies for the following, so take your pick:

 
ICE in Minnesota arrested several Native Americans —and continued to hold them illegally in an attempt to force NA tribes to allow access to reservation land. Native Americans elsewhere in the US have been arrested with their tribal IDs confiscated or torn up, ICE insisting they were fake.

I’ll take “Things That Never Happened” for $500, Alex.
You won't be participating in Final Jeopardy. Google "ice arresting native americans".
Who needs Googling to find out if something happened, when you have vibes instead?

Who needs facts when you can just make stuff up.
I wonder not if, but how much that would warp anyone. Trump and his cronies can say anything and suffer no consequences for it, so it's reasonable to think that they believe that if they say something, no matter how provably false it is, that it becomes truth for no other reason than because they said it.

For those on lower levels of his administration who know he's lying and aren't comfortable with it, it must be like a real life version of It's a Good Life.

It seems to work for Gavin Newsom too. But he’s not Trump I suppose.

But in any event, I was talking specifically about the bs about Native Americans being arrested.
 
Last edited:
"Who needs facts when you can just make stuff up?" asks @TSwizzle

Wrong question, but kinda curious. Who needs to make stuff up when you can just check factual assertions?
Does ICE arrest Native Americans?

Clean browser, AI sez
AI Overview

Reports indicate that
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents have detained Native Americans in various parts of the U.S., including the Southwest and Minneapolis. Although Native Americans are U.S. citizens and not subject to immigration enforcement, they are being caught in, or targeted by, operations due to racial profiling, language, or appearance.
OK, but "reports indicate" is super sketchy, and AI is full of shit, so I wonder if there's any actual news about any such outlandish claims being true. Now I'm looking for my precious pearls! This is just the top of the list...

For Indigenous Americans it's unthinkable, but true. ICE is arresting, detaining Native Americans.
Throughout Indian Country, tribal members are concerned their physical appearance will mean they, too, can be swept up, arrested and detained –...
.
1 month ago
1773516882608.jpeg
1773516882622.png
ICT News
Five Native Americans detained by ICE during ongoing raids in Minneapolis
Amelia Schafer ICT. At least five Native American men have been detained and an unknown number questioned by immigration officers across the...
.
Jan 9, 2026
1773516882634.jpeg
1773516882644.png
The Times
I was detained by ICE — even though I’m 100% Native American
Peter Yazzie was held in a cell and William LaFromboise was sprayed with tear gas by agents they say racially profiled and brutalised them.
.
2 weeks ago
1773516882656.jpeg
1773516882667.png
AOL.com
Native Americans detained in Trump's Minnesota ICE raids
On Jan. 13, the Oglala Sioux Tribe said three men are still in detention after being transferred to an ICE detention center.
.
1 day ago
1773516882678.png
1773516882689.png
Native American Rights Fund
Resources for Individuals and Nonprofits Approached by ICE
Know Your Rights if You are Approached by ICE. NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE, REMEMBER: You have the right to remain silent; Do not lie to ICE...
.
1 month ago
1773516882701.jpeg
1773516882711.png
Wisconsin Examiner
Wisconsin tribes react after ICE detains Native Americans in Twin Cities
Wisconsin tribes respond to reports that Native Americans are being picked up by ICE in Minnesota, offer resources.
.
Jan 15, 2026
CBS News
Dozens of Native Americans report being questioned or detained by ICE
The Navajo Nation said dozens of Native Americans have been questioned or detained by ICE agents, even though Indigenous people can't be...
.
Dec 21, 2025
The Assembly NC
ICE Has Detained Some Native Americans. N.C. Republican Says ‘There Will be Mistakes.’
As ICE detains Native Americans, Republican lawmakers like N.C.'s Addison McDowell dismiss it as "not a perfect process."
.
1 month ago
Bridge Michigan
Michigan tribes warn members about ICE stops: ‘Irony maybe is the word’
Tribal citizens in Michigan have called their tribal governments with concerns they could be targeted; Several Michigan tribes have urged...
 
Last edited:
I have never once witnessed ICE arresting anyone I knew for a fact to be a Native American, so it could ALL be fake News.
But I'd bet my life against the life of Christy Noem's dog, that it's not.
ICE arrests Native Americans.
 
ICE in Minnesota arrested several Native Americans —and continued to hold them illegally in an attempt to force NA tribes to allow access to reservation land. Native Americans elsewhere in the US have been arrested with their tribal IDs confiscated or torn up, ICE insisting they were fake.

I’ll take “Things That Never Happened” for $500, Alex.
You won't be participating in Final Jeopardy. Google "ice arresting native americans".
Who needs Googling to find out if something happened, when you have vibes instead?

Who needs facts when you can just make stuff up.
Certainly not you.
 
ICE in Minnesota arrested several Native Americans —and continued to hold them illegally in an attempt to force NA tribes to allow access to reservation land. Native Americans elsewhere in the US have been arrested with their tribal IDs confiscated or torn up, ICE insisting they were fake.

I’ll take “Things That Never Happened” for $500, Alex.
You won't be participating in Final Jeopardy. Google "ice arresting native americans".
Who needs Googling to find out if something happened, when you have vibes instead?

Who needs facts when you can just make stuff up.
I wonder not if, but how much that would warp anyone. Trump and his cronies can say anything and suffer no consequences for it, so it's reasonable to think that they believe that if they say something, no matter how provably false it is, that it becomes truth for no other reason than because they said it.

For those on lower levels of his administration who know he's lying and aren't comfortable with it, it must be like a real life version of It's a Good Life.

It seems to work for Gavin Newsom too. But he’s not Trump I suppose.

But in any event, I was talking specifically about the bs about Native Americans being arrested.
... bah, whatever.
 
ICE in Minnesota arrested several Native Americans —and continued to hold them illegally in an attempt to force NA tribes to allow access to reservation land. Native Americans elsewhere in the US have been arrested with their tribal IDs confiscated or torn up, ICE insisting they were fake.

I’ll take “Things That Never Happened” for $500, Alex.
You won't be participating in Final Jeopardy. Google "ice arresting native americans".
Who needs Googling to find out if something happened, when you have vibes instead?

Who needs facts when you can just make stuff up.
I wonder not if, but how much that would warp anyone. Trump and his cronies can say anything and suffer no consequences for it, so it's reasonable to think that they believe that if they say something, no matter how provably false it is, that it becomes truth for no other reason than because they said it.

For those on lower levels of his administration who know he's lying and aren't comfortable with it, it must be like a real life version of It's a Good Life.

It seems to work for Gavin Newsom too. But he’s not Trump I suppose.

But in any event, I was talking specifically about the bs about Native Americans being arrested.
... bah, whatever.
TSwizzle has me on ignore (according to him). He google ICE arrests Native Americans in Minnesota and he would find numerous links to arrests. But hey, who needs facts when they can make stuff up?
 
ICE in Minnesota arrested several Native Americans —and continued to hold them illegally in an attempt to force NA tribes to allow access to reservation land. Native Americans elsewhere in the US have been arrested with their tribal IDs confiscated or torn up, ICE insisting they were fake.

I’ll take “Things That Never Happened” for $500, Alex.
You won't be participating in Final Jeopardy. Google "ice arresting native americans".
Who needs Googling to find out if something happened, when you have vibes instead?

Who needs facts when you can just make stuff up.
I wonder not if, but how much that would warp anyone. Trump and his cronies can say anything and suffer no consequences for it, so it's reasonable to think that they believe that if they say something, no matter how provably false it is, that it becomes truth for no other reason than because they said it.

For those on lower levels of his administration who know he's lying and aren't comfortable with it, it must be like a real life version of It's a Good Life.

It seems to work for Gavin Newsom too. But he’s not Trump I suppose.

But in any event, I was talking specifically about the bs about Native Americans being arrested.
... bah, whatever.
TSwizzle has me on ignore (according to him). He google ICE arrests Native Americans in Minnesota and he would find numerous links to arrests. But hey, who needs facts when they can make stuff up?
Well I have him on ignore as I don’t believe he posts in good faith.

There is balance in the universe.
 
ICE in Minnesota arrested several Native Americans —and continued to hold them illegally in an attempt to force NA tribes to allow access to reservation land. Native Americans elsewhere in the US have been arrested with their tribal IDs confiscated or torn up, ICE insisting they were fake.

I’ll take “Things That Never Happened” for $500, Alex.
You won't be participating in Final Jeopardy. Google "ice arresting native americans".
Who needs Googling to find out if something happened, when you have vibes instead?
I mean what else would you expect from someone "unburdened by what has been?"
 
Well I have him on ignore as I don’t believe he posts in good faith.
His faith is good. Unfortunately it is allocated to Donald Trump and Faux News.
Catering to intellectual sloth is lucrative as hell.
 
ICE in Minnesota arrested several Native Americans —and continued to hold them illegally in an attempt to force NA tribes to allow access to reservation land. Native Americans elsewhere in the US have been arrested with their tribal IDs confiscated or torn up, ICE insisting they were fake.

I’ll take “Things That Never Happened” for $500, Alex.
You won't be participating in Final Jeopardy. Google "ice arresting native americans".
Who needs Googling to find out if something happened, when you have vibes instead?
I mean what else would you expect from someone "unburdened by what has been?"
Also I just recalled he claimed America has a divine right while simultaneously claiming he's an atheist. 🤔
 
GOP is Senate looking to force a vote on the SAVE ACT. Right now it is being "filibustered". The GOP want to force the Democrats to filibuster it. I suppose filibustering legislation via threat is only a viable maneuver when done by the GOP.
 
Who needs facts when you can just make stuff up.
I wonder not if, but how much that would warp anyone. Trump and his cronies can say anything and suffer no consequences for it, so it's reasonable to think that they believe that if they say something, no matter how provably false it is, that it becomes truth for no other reason than because they said it.

For those on lower levels of his administration who know he's lying and aren't comfortable with it, it must be like a real life version of It's a Good Life.

It seems to work for Gavin Newsom too. But he’s not Trump I suppose.

But in any event, I was talking specifically about the bs about Native Americans being arrested.
... bah, whatever.
TSwizzle has me on ignore (according to him). He google ICE arrests Native Americans in Minnesota and he would find numerous links to arrests. But hey, who needs facts when they can make stuff up?
Not enough Native Americans were being detained to give a fuck. Of course, 1 million Americans died in conjunction with Covid-19 and that number too, not high enough to warrant giving a fuck. That is what happens when one becomes radicalized.
 
You're correct, you didn't specifically say mexican. But you absolutely are assuming racism. And your assumption is false.
My ‘assumption’ is based on my observation. Which is born out by many of the actions of ICE agents who arrest US citizens who are immigrants or who ‘look like’ immigrants to them, or have dark hair/eyes and a darker complexion. I have friends who do not leave their homes without their US passports. ICE in Minnesota arrested several Native Americans —and continued to hold them illegally in an attempt to force NA tribes to allow access to reservation land. Native Americans elsewhere in the US have been arrested with their tribal IDs confiscated or torn up, ICE insisting they were fake.

Yeah, there is a LOT of racism behind ICE. And behind the drive to round up people and incarcerate them in concentration camps.
Now explain to me how ICE behaving in unacceptable ways means that I have racist intentions.
How does someone else doing something you think is racist make me a racist?
Perhaps we just see different news accounts, different videos of incidents that have happened. My understanding is that there have been some images that were altered to obscure what actually happened re: the Renee Good and the Alex Pretti murders. As far as the Alex Pretti murder, I was catching up via text with a close friend who lives in St. Paul at the moment Pretti was shot: I knew within a couple of minutes what had happened and in perhaps 5-7 minutes I saw video—too quickly and too many videos to have been altered by AI. And I’ve read accounts from people actually present at that shooting.

The ‘official’ ICE account of the murders of Alex Pretti and Renee Good differ sharply with video recordings and eye witness accounts. Not by a few small details that skew things in favor of ICE agents but dramatically contradicting the evidence provided by those there.

Once upon a time, I assumed whatever the government told us was factual, even if it was not always the entire truth.

Then I grew up.

Maybe you’ve never been disillusioned by contradictions between what the official version is and what is later or contemporaneously available.

Maybe you’ve never have not listened to enough from various members of the current POTUS’s cabinet or the man himself to have heard some pretty disturbing and despicable comments that are frankly, racist. Maybe you never saw or heard things first yourself that you knew were motivated by animus against the accused or that animus motivated by racism or sexism. Maybe that does not leap out at you the way it does me.

Truthfully, I was very naive as a young person. I believed that only my home town or my corner of the county was racist, except, of course, for the South. The first place I lived outside of the state where I was born was just outside of Washington DC, and in fact, I worked in DC for a few years, and lived in graduate student housing which was quite international. I lived in a bubble, believing that most people were not really racist. Despite a lot of evidence at work or racism and colorism. I was an idealist. Moving back to the Midwest, I confess that, idiot that I was, I was shocked by the racial divides. Moving to another midwestern state, in a small college town, I saw and heard a lot of things that shocked me and infuriated me. I cannot afford to be naive any more. I could not afford to be naive if I wanted my children to grow up with the ability to think for themselves, to see, hear, read, research and evaluate for themselves.

Maybe your experiences have been different.
That's a very long, very well written post.

But it doesn't answer my question at all. How does ICE behaving in unacceptable ways means that I have racist intentions. How does someone else doing something you think is racist make me a racist?
 
You're correct, you didn't specifically say mexican. But you absolutely are assuming racism. And your assumption is false.
My ‘assumption’ is based on my observation. Which is born out by many of the actions of ICE agents who arrest US citizens who are immigrants or who ‘look like’ immigrants to them, or have dark hair/eyes and a darker complexion. I have friends who do not leave their homes without their US passports. ICE in Minnesota arrested several Native Americans —and continued to hold them illegally in an attempt to force NA tribes to allow access to reservation land. Native Americans elsewhere in the US have been arrested with their tribal IDs confiscated or torn up, ICE insisting they were fake.

Yeah, there is a LOT of racism behind ICE. And behind the drive to round up people and incarcerate them in concentration camps.
Now explain to me how ICE behaving in unacceptable ways means that I have racist intentions.
How does someone else doing something you think is racist make me a racist?
Perhaps we just see different news accounts, different videos of incidents that have happened. My understanding is that there have been some images that were altered to obscure what actually happened re: the Renee Good and the Alex Pretti murders. As far as the Alex Pretti murder, I was catching up via text with a close friend who lives in St. Paul at the moment Pretti was shot: I knew within a couple of minutes what had happened and in perhaps 5-7 minutes I saw video—too quickly and too many videos to have been altered by AI. And I’ve read accounts from people actually present at that shooting.

The ‘official’ ICE account of the murders of Alex Pretti and Renee Good differ sharply with video recordings and eye witness accounts. Not by a few small details that skew things in favor of ICE agents but dramatically contradicting the evidence provided by those there.

Once upon a time, I assumed whatever the government told us was factual, even if it was not always the entire truth.

Then I grew up.

Maybe you’ve never been disillusioned by contradictions between what the official version is and what is later or contemporaneously available.

Maybe you’ve never have not listened to enough from various members of the current POTUS’s cabinet or the man himself to have heard some pretty disturbing and despicable comments that are frankly, racist. Maybe you never saw or heard things first yourself that you knew were motivated by animus against the accused or that animus motivated by racism or sexism. Maybe that does not leap out at you the way it does me.

Truthfully, I was very naive as a young person. I believed that only my home town or my corner of the county was racist, except, of course, for the South. The first place I lived outside of the state where I was born was just outside of Washington DC, and in fact, I worked in DC for a few years, and lived in graduate student housing which was quite international. I lived in a bubble, believing that most people were not really racist. Despite a lot of evidence at work or racism and colorism. I was an idealist. Moving back to the Midwest, I confess that, idiot that I was, I was shocked by the racial divides. Moving to another midwestern state, in a small college town, I saw and heard a lot of things that shocked me and infuriated me. I cannot afford to be naive any more. I could not afford to be naive if I wanted my children to grow up with the ability to think for themselves, to see, hear, read, research and evaluate for themselves.

Maybe your experiences have been different.
That's a very long, very well written post.

But it doesn't answer my question at all. How does ICE behaving in unacceptable ways means that I have racist intentions. How does someone else doing something you think is racist make me a racist?
I would guess that if someone believed that you fully supported ICE actions in Minnesota, in Vermont and other places ( that is, obviously racially profiling people rather than adhering to their stated purpose of collecting the murderers and rapists ( which would have been in state custody already, if convicted and sometimes, pending trial) but snatching people without regard to their actual immigration status —that would appear racist.

Approving of racist actions makes other people view one as being racist themselves.
 
Who needs facts when you can just make stuff up.
I wonder not if, but how much that would warp anyone. Trump and his cronies can say anything and suffer no consequences for it, so it's reasonable to think that they believe that if they say something, no matter how provably false it is, that it becomes truth for no other reason than because they said it.

For those on lower levels of his administration who know he's lying and aren't comfortable with it, it must be like a real life version of It's a Good Life.

It seems to work for Gavin Newsom too. But he’s not Trump I suppose.

But in any event, I was talking specifically about the bs about Native Americans being arrested.
... bah, whatever.
TSwizzle has me on ignore (according to him). He google ICE arrests Native Americans in Minnesota and he would find numerous links to arrests. But hey, who needs facts when they can make stuff up?
Not enough Native Americans were being detained to give a fuck. Of course, 1 million Americans died in conjunction with Covid-19 and that number too, not high enough to warrant giving a fuck. That is what happens when one becomes radicalized.
I mean, that's "what has been", and he is "unburdened" by it.

What more can we really expect? Should we expect more? And how are those expectations to be levied?
 
560545622180693475.jpg
A good friend of ours sent this shirt to my partner. He wore it to work last night. There's a bunch of Hispanic people working there. They loved it.

It translates, in a slangy but clear way, as
"Fuck you ICE." He's going to wear it to church next Sunday.
Tom
 
Back
Top Bottom