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U.S. Supreme Court Rules for Cake Maker

This decision didn’t “cater to the most religiously fanatical.” Rather, the decision said the public accommodation law was not applied in a neutral manner but in a discriminatory fashion on the basis the religious belief is “offensive” and hostility towards the religious belief.

This is so much double talk.

Are you saying the court found the speech was offensive or not?

It found that the baker can discriminate based on something.

What gives him that right?

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Lol...ok...this notion you can deride the opinion as not approaching “objectivity” without reading the opinion to ascertain whether the opinion is lacking objectivity, is comical nonsense.

ALL opinions are subjective.

The entirety of what is called the law is subjective opinion.

All you need is an opinion shared by enough of some random group of people and it is then the law.

The 10 commandments were allegedly objective law.

Since then it is all subjective opinion.

Good. Which means your BS diatribe is also subjective, but not only is your opinion subjective, it’s conspicuously devoid of any lucid and logical thought.

It is the facts.

And you cannot deny it.

I do not worship the subjective opinions of any other human.

I do not look to the opinions of the great priests to understand the truth.

A free mind does not say: "Well that is the opinion of carefully chosen religious fanatics chosen for their fanaticism."

"Now it all makes sense."
 
This decision didn’t “cater to the most religiously fanatical.” Rather, the decision said the public accommodation law was not applied in a neutral manner but in a discriminatory fashion on the basis the religious belief is “offensive” and hostility towards the religious belief.

This is so much double talk.

Are you saying the court found the speech was offensive or not?

It found that the baker can discriminate based on something.

What gives him that right?

It might actually help if you read the verdict to understand what was decided.

The court found the government was inconsistent in allowing bakers to determine what was and wasn't offensive. It allowed bakers to refuse to bake some cakes but not others.

The pattern of allowing bakers to reject biblical message cakes while forcing them to bake gay marriage cakes, combined with certain commission member comments in hearings suggesting outright hostility toward religious views, led the USSC to believe the government was engaging in viewpoint discrimination.
 
Do you think there was another baker in the Denver region who would have made a cake for them?
That is a crap excuse because regions can become unserviceable if they want to do so. People shouldn't have to go elsewhere for a product that is for sale at a particular place.
Yeah because in all my years of shopping I've never had to go to different stores to look for what I want.
Have you ever had to go to a different store due to refusal of service?

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Lol...ok...this notion you can deride the opinion as not approaching “objectivity” without reading the opinion to ascertain whether the opinion is lacking objectivity, is comical nonsense.
Much like the false equivalence used by the majority of the bench.

I have no idea what you are referencing.


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The false equivalence of referencing the 3 cases where bakers were not found to have violated the law when refusing to put offensive text on a cake with a baker refusing to sell a wedding cake.
 
Yeah because in all my years of shopping I've never had to go to different stores to look for what I want.

A store either not carrying, or being out of something is quite a bit different from stores having what you want, but refusing to sell it because of who you are. It is also very different when every store/business in the town or region has the same policy of not serving you because of their prejudice. That is the kind of thing that made the Green Book necessary.


One thing I wonder, the people who were fearmongering about muslims creating no-go zones in Europe, how many of them would have no problem creating no-go zones for gay people in the US?
 
Yeah because in all my years of shopping I've never had to go to different stores to look for what I want.
Have you ever had to go to a different store due to refusal of service?

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Lol...ok...this notion you can deride the opinion as not approaching “objectivity” without reading the opinion to ascertain whether the opinion is lacking objectivity, is comical nonsense.
Much like the false equivalence used by the majority of the bench.

I have no idea what you are referencing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The false equivalence of referencing the 3 cases where bakers were not found to have violated the law when refusing to put offensive text on a cake with a baker refusing to sell a wedding cake.

There is multiple stores I can't go to because of their religious beliefs and not opening on Sunday. Should Chick filet be forced to be open on Sunday so I can get a chicken sandwhich when I want? The end result is the same, if one store doesn't have what I want, I go to another store. There is no guarantee that all stores carry the things I want. If I live in a small town that doesn't have everything I have to go to a larger town to get it.
 
This decision didn’t “cater to the most religiously fanatical.” Rather, the decision said the public accommodation law was not applied in a neutral manner but in a discriminatory fashion on the basis the religious belief is “offensive” and hostility towards the religious belief.

This is so much double talk.

Are you saying the court found the speech was offensive or not?

It found that the baker can discriminate based on something.

What gives him that right?

It might actually help if you read the verdict to understand what was decided.

The court found the government was inconsistent in allowing bakers to determine what was and wasn't offensive. It allowed bakers to refuse to bake some cakes but not others.

The pattern of allowing bakers to reject biblical message cakes while forcing them to bake gay marriage cakes, combined with certain commission member comments in hearings suggesting outright hostility toward religious views, led the USSC to believe the government was engaging in viewpoint discrimination.

So to end viewpoint discrimination they allow the baker to discriminate?

What the hell?

This is so twisted it smells of after the fact desperation.
 
One thing I wonder, the people who were fearmongering about muslims creating no-go zones in Europe, how many of them would have no problem creating no-go zones for gay people in the US?
In the USA? Probably 75% to 90% of them.
 
Have you ever had to go to a different store due to refusal of service?

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Lol...ok...this notion you can deride the opinion as not approaching “objectivity” without reading the opinion to ascertain whether the opinion is lacking objectivity, is comical nonsense.
Much like the false equivalence used by the majority of the bench.

I have no idea what you are referencing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The false equivalence of referencing the 3 cases where bakers were not found to have violated the law when refusing to put offensive text on a cake with a baker refusing to sell a wedding cake.
There is multiple stores I can't go to because of their religious beliefs and not opening on Sunday.
There needs to be a national Lunch and Learn where they going over what a 'accurate comparison' is.

Should Chick filet be forced to be open on Sunday so I can get a chicken sandwhich when I want?
Did they not serve you on Sunday because of your identity or because they were CLOSED and no one is being served?! Seriously, can you at least try?
 
Yeah because in all my years of shopping I've never had to go to different stores to look for what I want.
Have you ever had to go to a different store due to refusal of service?

- - - Updated - - -

Lol...ok...this notion you can deride the opinion as not approaching “objectivity” without reading the opinion to ascertain whether the opinion is lacking objectivity, is comical nonsense.
Much like the false equivalence used by the majority of the bench.

I have no idea what you are referencing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The false equivalence of referencing the 3 cases where bakers were not found to have violated the law when refusing to put offensive text on a cake with a baker refusing to sell a wedding cake.

Unfortunately, the state of Colorado doesn't have you available 24-7 to decide for everyone what is and isn't offensive. They have to deal with people who stubbornly want to decide for themselves what offends them,
 
Have you ever had to go to a different store due to refusal of service?

- - - Updated - - -

Lol...ok...this notion you can deride the opinion as not approaching “objectivity” without reading the opinion to ascertain whether the opinion is lacking objectivity, is comical nonsense.
Much like the false equivalence used by the majority of the bench.

I have no idea what you are referencing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The false equivalence of referencing the 3 cases where bakers were not found to have violated the law when refusing to put offensive text on a cake with a baker refusing to sell a wedding cake.
There is multiple stores I can't go to because of their religious beliefs and not opening on Sunday.
There needs to be a national Lunch and Learn where they going over what a 'accurate comparison' is.

Should Chick filet be forced to be open on Sunday so I can get a chicken sandwhich when I want?
Did they not serve you on Sunday because of your identity or because they were CLOSED and no one is being served?! Seriously, can you at least try?

My argument is that there isn't an actual outcome distinction, only a morality distinction. We think it's bad to discriminate against one group but it's okay to discriminate other groups that aren't protected.
 
It might actually help if you read the verdict to understand what was decided.

The court found the government was inconsistent in allowing bakers to determine what was and wasn't offensive. It allowed bakers to refuse to bake some cakes but not others.

The pattern of allowing bakers to reject biblical message cakes while forcing them to bake gay marriage cakes, combined with certain commission member comments in hearings suggesting outright hostility toward religious views, led the USSC to believe the government was engaging in viewpoint discrimination.

So to end viewpoint discrimination they allow the baker to discriminate?

What the hell?

This is so twisted it smells of after the fact desperation.

OK, let's try again:

The state allowed some bakers to reject cakes based on ideas expressed by the cake, but did not allow other bakers to reject cakes based on other ideas expressed by the cake. The result is the government endorsing some viewpoints while punishing others. This means the government was engaging in viewpoint discrimination. It is constitutionally prohibited for the government to engage in viewpoint discrimination.
 
Would that depend on whether or not I agree with the viewpoint?
 
Yeah because in all my years of shopping I've never had to go to different stores to look for what I want.
Have you ever had to go to a different store due to refusal of service?

- - - Updated - - -

Lol...ok...this notion you can deride the opinion as not approaching “objectivity” without reading the opinion to ascertain whether the opinion is lacking objectivity, is comical nonsense.
Much like the false equivalence used by the majority of the bench.

I have no idea what you are referencing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The false equivalence of referencing the 3 cases where bakers were not found to have violated the law when refusing to put offensive text on a cake with a baker refusing to sell a wedding cake.

How did the majority engage in false equivalence with those other cases? They’d didn’t, and you’d know this if you actually understood how the majority cited to those cases.


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Would that depend on whether or not I agree with the viewpoint?

Do you mean does it depend on whether Higgins tells you you're offended?

Not sure where you got this idea you're allowed to decide for yourself.
 
This is so much double talk.

Are you saying the court found the speech was offensive or not?

It found that the baker can discriminate based on something.

What gives him that right?

- - - Updated - - -

Lol...ok...this notion you can deride the opinion as not approaching “objectivity” without reading the opinion to ascertain whether the opinion is lacking objectivity, is comical nonsense.

ALL opinions are subjective.

The entirety of what is called the law is subjective opinion.

All you need is an opinion shared by enough of some random group of people and it is then the law.

The 10 commandments were allegedly objective law.

Since then it is all subjective opinion.

Good. Which means your BS diatribe is also subjective, but not only is your opinion subjective, it’s conspicuously devoid of any lucid and logical thought.

It is the facts.

And you cannot deny it.

I do not worship the subjective opinions of any other human.

I do not look to the opinions of the great priests to understand the truth.

A free mind does not say: "Well that is the opinion of carefully chosen religious fanatics chosen for their fanaticism."

"Now it all makes sense."

No, very little you have said is factual.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It might actually help if you read the verdict to understand what was decided.

The court found the government was inconsistent in allowing bakers to determine what was and wasn't offensive. It allowed bakers to refuse to bake some cakes but not others.

The pattern of allowing bakers to reject biblical message cakes while forcing them to bake gay marriage cakes, combined with certain commission member comments in hearings suggesting outright hostility toward religious views, led the USSC to believe the government was engaging in viewpoint discrimination.

So to end viewpoint discrimination they allow the baker to discriminate?

What the hell?

This is so twisted it smells of after the fact desperation.

Nope. Read the opinion. The Court said the law was not applied neutrally. The remedy is to apply the law neutrally.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Have you ever had to go to a different store due to refusal of service?

- - - Updated - - -

Lol...ok...this notion you can deride the opinion as not approaching “objectivity” without reading the opinion to ascertain whether the opinion is lacking objectivity, is comical nonsense.
Much like the false equivalence used by the majority of the bench.

I have no idea what you are referencing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The false equivalence of referencing the 3 cases where bakers were not found to have violated the law when refusing to put offensive text on a cake with a baker refusing to sell a wedding cake.
There is multiple stores I can't go to because of their religious beliefs and not opening on Sunday.
There needs to be a national Lunch and Learn where they going over what a 'accurate comparison' is.

Should Chick filet be forced to be open on Sunday so I can get a chicken sandwhich when I want?
Did they not serve you on Sunday because of your identity or because they were CLOSED and no one is being served?! Seriously, can you at least try?

My argument is that there isn't an actual outcome distinction, only a morality distinction. We think it's bad to discriminate against one group but it's okay to discriminate other groups that aren't protected.
You had a point? Because it seemed like you were trying to minimize the significance of forcing people to go elsewhere to do business... then when that failed you tried to equate situations of unimportance with discrimination. Chic Fil A isn't open on Sunday, so what is the big deal with the baker?

You failed twice and now are trying to change your direction of argument. What you think is that creating a false equivalence in order to demonstrate there are two cases of discrimination counts as demonstrating discriminating against some is okay and others isn't, but the reality is, you haven't demonstrated that. A baker refused to sell a wedding cake to a gay couple.
 
SCOTUS (my emphasis) said:
As noted above, on at least three other occasions theCivil Rights Division considered the refusal of bakers tocreate cakes with images that conveyed disapproval ofsame-sex marriage, along with religious text. Each time,the Division found that the baker acted lawfully in refusingservice. It made these determinations because, in thewords of the Division, the requested cake included “wordingand images [the baker] deemed derogatory,” Jack v.Gateaux, Ltd., Charge No. P20140071X, at 4; featured“language and images [the baker] deemed hateful,” Jack v.Le Bakery Sensual, Inc., Charge No. P20140070X, at 4; ordisplayed a message the baker “deemed as discriminatory,Jack v. Azucar Bakery, Charge No. P20140069X, at 4.The treatment of the conscience-based objections atissue in these three cases contrasts with the Commission’streatment of Phillips’ objection. The Commission ruledagainst Phillips in part on the theory that any messagethe requested wedding cake would carry would be attributedto the customer, not to the baker. Yet the Divisiondid not address this point in any of the other caseswith respect to the cakes depicting anti-gay marriagesymbolism. Additionally, the Division found no violationof CADA in the other cases in part because each bakerywas willing to sell other products, including those depictingChristian themes, to the prospective customers. Butthe Commission dismissed Phillips’ willingness to sell“birthday cakes, shower cakes, [and] cookies and brownies,”App. 152, to gay and lesbian customers as irrelevant.The treatment of the other cases and Phillips’ case couldreasonably be interpreted as being inconsistent as to thequestion of whether speech is involved, quite apart fromwhether the cases should ultimately be distinguished. Inshort, the Commission’s consideration of Phillips’ religiousobjection did not accord with its treatment of these otherobjections.
This is the false equivalence. And there is no reason to bring these cases up short of attempting a false equivalence.

There are a few notable differences here.

  1. The people denied the cakes in the three cases were not refused the cake because of their identity, where as the gay couple couldn't get a wedding cake, period because of who they were.
  2. Furthermore, the people refused the customized cake could have gotten those exact cakes, without the demeaning message.
  3. The three cases raised involved cakes with requested demeaning text added, there was nothing demeaning, offensive, or obscene with the requested wedding cake.

The Colorado board came up with differing decision, not because of bias, but because of the actual cases involved. Three involved attempts to demean and the baker has a right to refuse offensive and obscene requests. One involved a baker who refused to sell a wedding cake because he personally thinks gay marriage is wrong. Gay marriage isn't offensive.
 
Nope. Read the opinion. The Court said the law was not applied neutrally. The remedy is to apply the law neutrally.
My understanding is that the Court did not opine on the appropriate outcome of a neutral application of the law. In other words, it is my understanding that if a neutral application of the law (per the SCOTUS standards) was that the baker was violating the law, that ruling would be constitutional.
 
My argument is that there isn't an actual outcome distinction, only a morality distinction.
Well, if the establishment is closed, then my wife, my sons and I all get the same treatment.
But if they're open, my wife, my son and I could get treated differently, if they deny service due to either race, religion, or gender preference.

So there is an outcome distinction.
 
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