• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

Table of empires

 
 
 
I suppose I should have asked if its ok for China to have come from a different line from Noah, why are you so obsessed with establishing descent from Noah to all these other empires?

If one major civilization can be on its own, why does every other one in Eurasia all have to come from one guy?

What?
 
no-one-particular said:
looks like you people have given up even pretending to engage in rational discussion so I guess I'm done here. Time to unsubscribe.
Click to expand...
Maybe that has something to do with your pretending that 600-400 BC religious writings have something to do with Euro Asian empires that in reality were going on for some 2,500 years before these ignorant people tried to create a narrative showing that their tribal god Yahweh uber important to all of humanity.

Like I had suggested before: There is nothing wrong with trying to understand how the Jewish writings were formed and why they wrote what they did, but it is a fools errand to pretend that they provide a historical framework to understand the most ancient empires. But it seems that you insisted in taking the later route...
 
Sarpedon said:
I suppose I should have asked if its ok for China to have come from a different line from Noah, why are you so obsessed with establishing descent from Noah to all these other empires?

If one major civilization can be on its own, why does every other one in Eurasia all have to come from one guy?

What?
Click to expand...
Obsessed? Seems to me that you are the one obsessed with proving the Bible wrong.
All I have done is try to analyze it objectively. If it is wrong then fine. If it is right then thats fine too.

I dont think that the Sumerians were Chinese but I will list it as a possiblity (but with a question mark)
 
wasn't there some galactic empire established some time ago, ron hubbard wrote about it
maybe 700 trillion years ago, i know it is in the books
 
So if Sumerians were Chinese then we have one group coming down from the north all the way from Scandinavia and a second group coming from the east all the way from China and a third group coming up from the south from Sub-Saharan Africa via the Nile river valley.

What does it all mean?
 
no-one-particular said:
Obsessed? Seems to me that you are the one obsessed with proving the Bible wrong.
Click to expand...

Why would anyone be obsessed with that? It's wrong on the face of it. Population genetics shows very clearly that we are not all descended from a single pair and the incestuous relationships between their offspring.
 
no-one-particular said:
So if Sumerians were Chinese then we have one group coming down from the north all the way from Scandinavia and a second group coming from the east all the way from China and a third group coming up from the south from Sub-Saharan Africa via the Nile river valley.

What does it all mean?
Click to expand...

Does it mean that reading Biblical passages is a bad way to try and determine ancient human migration trends?
 
Tom Sawyer said:
no-one-particular said:
So if Sumerians were Chinese then we have one group coming down from the north all the way from Scandinavia and a second group coming from the east all the way from China and a third group coming up from the south from Sub-Saharan Africa via the Nile river valley.

What does it all mean?
Click to expand...

Does it mean that reading Biblical passages is a bad way to try and determine ancient human migration trends?
Click to expand...

Either that, or it means that science is all ... wrong.
(hint: It's not all wrong)
 
funinspace said:
Maybe that has something to do with your pretending that 600-400 BC religious writings have something to do with Euro Asian empires that in reality were going on for some 2,500 years before these ignorant people tried to create a narrative showing that their tribal god Yahweh uber important to all of humanity.
Click to expand...

So ... if, for example : I have a bible in my possession that was copied 50 years ago from a much earlier period,say... a 100 years back and then... was found 400 years later. " Would finding my 50 year old bible tell you it was copied from a much earlier text? (giving the same scenario: the writings then weren't stamped with dates)

Like I had suggested before: There is nothing wrong with trying to understand how the Jewish writings were formed and why they wrote what they did, but it is a fools errand to pretend that they provide a historical framework to understand the most ancient empires. But it seems that you insisted in taking the later route..
Click to expand...

It would be, if you thought there were Jews before there was a Judah i.e. Hebrews /Semetic/Mesopotamia. (lol Not that I think you think that)
 
Learner said:
funinspace said:
Maybe that has something to do with your pretending that 600-400 BC religious writings have something to do with Euro Asian empires that in reality were going on for some 2,500 years before these ignorant people tried to create a narrative showing that their tribal god Yahweh uber important to all of humanity.
Click to expand...

So ... if, for example : I have a bible in my possession that was copied 50 years ago from a much earlier period,say... a 100 years back and then... was found 400 years later. " Would finding my 50 year old bible tell you it was copied from a much earlier text? (giving the same scenario: the writings then weren't stamped with dates)
Click to expand...
First as a matter of context, NOP sort of acts like he isn't Christian. He acts like he is studying the Torah as if it were just another set of documents out of history.

This is in the introduction to Genesis from The New Oxford Annotated Bible; NRSV with the Apocrypha; An Ecumenical Study Bible:
“In particular, most scholars now recognize that Genesis is a postexilic combination of two bodies of material: (1) a “Priestly” editorial layer or source (P) beginning with the 7 day creation account in 1.1-2.3, and (2) a “non-Priestly” source beginning with the garden of Eden story in 2.4-3.24. In addition to 1.1-2.3, the Priestly layer encompasses most of the geneologies in Genesis, the above discussed genealogical headings, a version of the flood narrative that culminated in the Noah covenant...”

Postexilic is after 539 BC. I'm sure elements of Genesis are centuries older than 600 BC. How much was written and passed down from before 600 BC is impossible to know. Most mainstream Christian Biblical scholars consider even the older parts to have been created during the court of King Solomon (10th century BC). The Sumerian documents (also largely copies of older ones) are from circa 2,000 BC. Even the widely respected in conservative Christian circles, C.S. Lewis called the Noachian Flood a fable.


Like I had suggested before: There is nothing wrong with trying to understand how the Jewish writings were formed and why they wrote what they did, but it is a fools errand to pretend that they provide a historical framework to understand the most ancient empires. But it seems that you insisted in taking the later route..
Click to expand...

It would be, if you thought there were Jews before there was a Judah i.e. Hebrews /Semetic/Mesopotamia. (lol Not that I think you think that)
Click to expand...
True, and I understand the idea from a Christian perspective. However, no-one-particular claims he ain't a Christian... And since archaeological evidence either doesn't support or conflicts with the description of the conquest of Canaan and the Exodus tale, why would anyone outside of the God-Breathed-Bible camp go there?
 
Gen 10:15-18

Tyre was the father of:

Sidon
Kition (Hittites?)

Ibiza
Abdera
Gadir

Hippo Regius
Tunis?
Leptis Parva
Ha-Motya


Ancient_colonies.PNG
 
So if Sumerians were Chinese then we have one group coming down from the north all the way from Scandinavia and a second group coming from the east all the way from China and a third group coming up from the south from Sub-Saharan Africa via the Nile river valley.

What does it all mean?
Click to expand...

What? The Sumerians were Chinese? Or don't you mean the Chinese were Sumerians? Is there any evidence that their cultures or genetics are linked at all? When would this migration have taken place?

What it means is that you are making it up as you go.

I pointed out that your scheme of things has a huge omission, and next you simply declare that one group is the same as another group, with no evidence whatsoever. Have you no shame at all? Do you have any idea what real scholarship is?

Give me one thing linking Sumeria and China. I bet you can't even tell me the name of any of China's preliterate cultures without looking it up.
 
no-one-particular said:
What part of
no-one-particular said:
I dont think that the Sumerians were Chinese but I will list it as a possiblity (but with a question mark)
Click to expand...

did you not understand?

And the Silk Road connects Sumer with China
Click to expand...

That makes no sense. Why would there be "a road" ("The Silk Road" was actually a network of primitive routes)- let alone a trade route, to a place where there wasn't anyone, prior to the "road"?
 
What? Why would there have been a Silk Road BEFORE the existence of China? Who was making the silk? Again, WHEN was this happening? Are you claiming these migrations took place over pre-existing trade routes? If these guys are the first descendants of Noah, who else is there to do the trading? Did the silk trade even exist when Sumeria was around?

Ok I looked it up: Sumer 4000-1900 BC. Silk Road, started during the Han Dynasty. Do you know when the Han Dynasty was? NOT A MATCH! I suspected you were off by a couple of Millenia, but even I underestimated how utterly wrong you are.

If you are just going to make up something as you go, try to make it interesting and consistent.
 
Sarpedon said:
What? Why would there have been a Silk Road BEFORE the existence of China? Who was making the silk? Again, WHEN was this happening? Are you claiming these migrations took place over pre-existing trade routes? If these guys are the first descendants of Noah, who else is there to do the trading? Did the silk trade even exist when Sumeria was around?

Ok I looked it up: Sumer 4000-1900 BC. Silk Road, started during the Han Dynasty. Do you know when the Han Dynasty was? NOT A MATCH! I suspected you were off by a couple of Millenia, but even I underestimated how utterly wrong you are.

If you are just going to make up something as you go, try to make it interesting and consistent.
Click to expand...
I think it was Bjorn Lothbrok that took his father's Welles Time Machine, and paved the way for what is now called the silk road, and some of his followers stayed in what is now China.
 
You guys with your BC and BCE and CE and AD :rolleyes:

There's stuff that happened recently - stuff that grandad remembers; And then there's 'olden times'. Everything in 'olden times' is basically contemporaneous.

George Washington, Julius Caesar, and Leif Ericsson all lived in 'olden times', and therefore may well have met one another.

This is how we know the KJV is reliable - it was written in 'olden times', and is therefore contemporary with the events it describes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom