Support Groups for ex-religious members - why are they needed?

[Ramaraksha]

Just watched a bit of video on a Support Group for ex-members of a jewish sect - the Hasidim - on netflix - there is only so much one can take when watching these videos

But i have to ask, why? Why are they needed in the first place? We all hear about such groups - anyone hear of an ex-atheist support group? Never! Why is that?

 

[beero1000]

Just watched a bit of video on a Support Group for ex-members of a jewish sect - the Hasidim - on netflix - there is only so much one can take when watching these videos

But i have to ask, why? Why are they needed in the first place? We all hear about such groups - anyone hear of an ex-atheist support group? Never! Why is that?

It's hard to overestimate the way that being raised in an ultra-religious sect affects the mindset and psychology of their members, especially those that decide to leave the in-group. They need help integrating into a modern life for which they were never prepared, overcoming years of psychological conditioning on what is normal or right, and dealing with being disowned by their families. Of course they need support and commiseration from others who are going through the same thing. It doesn't hold a candle to being an ex-atheist. Was that even a real question?

 

[Ramaraksha]

Just watched a bit of video on a Support Group for ex-members of a jewish sect - the Hasidim - on netflix - there is only so much one can take when watching these videos

But i have to ask, why? Why are they needed in the first place? We all hear about such groups - anyone hear of an ex-atheist support group? Never! Why is that?

It's hard to overestimate the way that being raised in an ultra-religious sect affects the mindset and psychology of their members, especially those that decide to leave the in-group. They need help integrating into a modern life for which they were never prepared, overcoming years of psychological conditioning on what is normal or right, and dealing with being disowned by their families. Of course they need support and commiseration from others who are going through the same thing. It doesn't hold a candle to being an ex-atheist. Was that even a real question?

Bringing out the contrast between the two. Religious people frighten me

 

[sharon45]

It's hard to overestimate the way that being raised in an ultra-religious sect affects the mindset and psychology of their members, especially those that decide to leave the in-group. They need help integrating into a modern life for which they were never prepared, overcoming years of psychological conditioning on what is normal or right, and dealing with being disowned by their families. Of course they need support and commiseration from others who are going through the same thing. It doesn't hold a candle to being an ex-atheist. Was that even a real question?

Bringing out the contrast between the two. Religious people frighten me

Religious groups are already support for so-called ex-atheists, that is mostly how they keep gaining and remaining in such great numbers. The church service is a constant training session to hold people down and in line with the religion's narrow way of thinking and acting. When members have a problem, they are told to talk to a priest or pastor, not a secular counselor.

 

[braces_for_impact]

I have never myself understood why some people do not understand why others would want to be a part of a support group for ex-whatever. Obviously because they find value in it. Usually in my experience, such a question is asked by an atheist in some weird, "let me show you how individualistic and not a follower I am". Look, if someone wants to join a support group, and it helps them, good! It's not for you? Good! Don't join one.

 

[Ramaraksha]

I have never myself understood why some people do not understand why others would want to be a part of a support group for ex-whatever. Obviously because they find value in it. Usually in my experience, such a question is asked by an atheist in some weird, "let me show you how individualistic and not a follower I am". Look, if someone wants to join a support group, and it helps them, good! It's not for you? Good! Don't join one.

Well it's not like one is joining a club to play Bridge or Poker or chess - these support groups are there to help and support people who are grieving and in trouble and question is why? Why are these support groups needed in the first place? In the 21st century what are these religions doing that people need these secretive groups for and why they can't seem to do anything against such abuse

If you have Netflix watch the video or do a google search and ask why this is happening? So-called people of God, and this is not a shot at the Jewish religion(I have the highest regard for Jews - only minority people in history who beat oppression and discrimination against them by the majority, something no other minority has been able to do), doing terrible things to human beings

 

[braces_for_impact]

I have never myself understood why some people do not understand why others would want to be a part of a support group for ex-whatever. Obviously because they find value in it. Usually in my experience, such a question is asked by an atheist in some weird, "let me show you how individualistic and not a follower I am". Look, if someone wants to join a support group, and it helps them, good! It's not for you? Good! Don't join one.

Well it's not like one is joining a club to play Bridge or Poker or chess - these support groups are there to help and support people who are grieving and in trouble and question is why? Why are these support groups needed in the first place? In the 21st century what are these religions doing that people need these secretive groups for and why they can't seem to do anything against such abuse

If you have Netflix watch the video or do a google search and ask why this is happening? So-called people of God, and this is not a shot at the Jewish religion(I have the highest regard for Jews - only minority people in history who beat oppression and discrimination against them by the majority, something no other minority has been able to do), doing terrible things to human beings

Are you actually perplexed by this or are you attempting to make some sort of statement? I just don't think it's a big mystery.

 

[James Brown]

But i have to ask, why? Why are they needed in the first place?

Why are support groups of any kind needed? Having a problem with something? Suck it up and get over it!

We all hear about such groups - anyone hear of an ex-atheist support group? Never! Why is that?

I have heard of such a thing. It was called church. In the church I attended growing up, there were support groups for ex-Catholics, divorcees', alcohol users (not alcoholics--just casual drinkers. True alcoholics were referred to professional counseling.)

We didn't have a 'ex-atheist' support group, at least not by that name. Ex-atheists were called what they were--'New Christians'--and they were carefully shuttled into appropriate groups and classes for their status.

I'm with the others here in that I'm not sure what you're complaining about. Are are you being ironic? I often miss the message behind targeted irony.

 

[Ramaraksha]

I have heard of such a thing. It was called church. In the church I attended growing up, there were support groups for ex-Catholics, divorcees', alcohol users (not alcoholics--just casual drinkers. True alcoholics were referred to professional counseling.)
We didn't have a 'ex-atheist' support group, at least not by that name. Ex-atheists were called what they were--'New Christians'--and they were carefully shuttled into appropriate groups and classes for their status.
I'm with the others here in that I'm not sure what you're complaining about. Are are you being ironic? I often miss the message behind targeted irony.

It's my turn to be confused - there are tell's - what people say tells a lot about them. I assume you have never been in a support group? You seem not to realize why they are formed. If you have netflix maybe watch the show and then you will understand my question?

If you do not have netflix, you understand why divorcees, cancer survivors and ex-alcoholics might form a support group? Because they have been thru some hard times and they need help from those who have gone thru similar issues. Is that what is happening with religion? Systematic abuse?
Do you understand the question now?

 

[James Brown]

Is that what is happening with religion? Systematic abuse?

In some cases, yes. For some people, giving up their religion is equivalent to announcing that they're gay. Doing so can cause families to ostracize them, friends to dis-associate with them, for job opportunities to mysteriously dry up.

When a person's entire sense of being and self-worth has been shaped by a religious culture, giving up that religion can set a person adrift. I've read testimonies from ex-christians who laid awake at night. It's Pascal's Wager at work: "If I'm wrong, then I suffer eternity in Hell. What if I'm wrong?" All their lives they lived with the belief that pleasing God is the most important thing they must do--and now they must come to grips with the fact that not believing in God has to be the thing that would offend God the most.

Not to mention those that have suffered genuine physical harm thanks to their religion, such as children raped by pedophilic priests, children denied medical treatment by their parents who chose to instead pray away the illness. Children who were beaten because their parents believed the child's bad behavior was actually demon possession. People who have been ridiculed, abused, and even sent to prison because they were thought to be Satanists.

All of those are legitimate reasons, in my view, for people to get together with others and talk about their experiences in a non-judgmental environment.

I myself deconverted from Christianity to Atheism over the course of a year, and I had no one I could talk to about it. I underwent some serious "what if I'm wrong" fears, some doubts, and I felt adrift.

Here's the FAQ for Ex-Christians.net in which lots of people talk about their negative experiences, using the site as a sort of virtual support group.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

While a person is religious they're using someone else's identity, because that's what a god is, just a super-personification of someone's ideal self. If you like it you join in and make it your identity too. Easy peasy.

But when someone's religion is gone that person needs to develop a new identity, something real, not something pretend anymore, and that takes time. IIDB was my safe house back in the day and it worked well.

 

[Learner]

Getting a new religious identity - Borne again.

Seriously though, it is an interesting analogy.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Getting a new religious identity - Borne again.

Seriously though, it is an interesting analogy.

Haven't you ever heard someone talk about what THEIR god would or would not do? It's so obvious that people are taking their hopes, dreams, fears, experiences, etc. and making them into this perfect, super-personification of themselves. That for me explains the great diversity of religious behavior. Christianity is supposedly monotheistic but it has so many variations, just like people. A god handles a situation differently depending on who you talk to, even if it's the same god, and that's called being mysterious.

Religious clerics really do nothing more than sell and enforce an identity among people, and of course the people are willing to pay for this new identity because they like what they hear. In that sense religion short circuits the natural process of thinking these things through. In a way it's good because it at least provides a ready made template and cohesiveness within a group, at least until someone comes up with a different identity that some people start to prefer.

And these gods are quite real, but only in the brains of the people who say they have them. If I were daff enough to believe I was secretly a billionaire would I have my billions or not? People don't have gods, only themselves so that in a very real sense they are worshiping their perfected selves. My take anyway.

 

[Underseer]

I was never religious, but I've read a lot of deconversion stories.

For some people, it's a confusing and upsetting time because your whole conception of truth and reality get turned upside down, right as your family and friends all disown you and you suddenly find yourself utterly alone.

It's worse for the true believers than the moderates, it's worse for certain denominations than others, it's worse for certain families than others, it's worse for certain individuals than others.

If the transition was easy for you, then I'm happy for you, but I don't think it's fair to harshly judge those who feel that they need more support.