sharon45
Veteran Member
Well, that has always been without saying.
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Are we pushing too hard and fast?
- Thread starter Kosh
- Start date
Shake
Senior Member
And of course, the same would go for someone who says they're an atheist. That only tells one thing about which they do not believe. You can't necessarily infer anything else about their beliefs from just that statement alone.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Nope. Just 20-25 years ago, if a person said they were religious you could be pretty sure they would repeat the doctrine from their church. People felt free to switch churches. But nearly all religious would accept the teachings if they were part of it. But that seems to be dying now. The priest as a figure of authority is fading. He's seen as just another part of the media competing for attention.
We still have a long way to go before this is true for all religious. But it is a new trend and it is increasing in speed. People feel increasingly that they're just as good to make up their minds about this as any priest.
edit: The American religious identification survey is great. They've done it a couple of times now, and changes in ways to believe can be tracked
http://commons.trincoll.edu/aris/
Shake
Senior Member
The "Rise of the Nones" in the US has shown a trend of people moving away from the mainstream churches. They're not necessarily becoming atheists (though our numbers are indeed growing, too), but disassociating themselves more and more with organized religion. We should hold out hope because undoubtedly, at least some of these folks will become atheist.
sharon45
Veteran Member
You never heard of that old cliché from at least 40 and more years ago that the churches are full of hypocrites? When even Jesus couldn't follow most of his own teachings, I honestly don't know what so-called Christians actually believe, but I know that it ain't Christianity.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Religion is as religion does. That includes them all. When someone declares their religious belief the true version you just have another true version of a religion.
Will become smart atheists or stupid atheists?
If the nones are either apathetic or have an individualized spirituality suited to their own lives and personalities, what's the improvement that you expect if they "become atheist"?
ronburgundy
Contributor
Religion has always attacked anything that might challenge its coercive stranglehold on people's minds. For centuries before any modern "militant atheist", the slightest questioning of religion was reacted to with hyperbolic fear-mongering about the threat of non-believers. All the Abrahamic religions are designed around promoting such intolerant attacks of even those who do nothing but privately doubt.
The recent increase in non-believers, doubters and non-affiliated is not due to some "natural course", but a result of the result of the increased efforts by some brave atheists to push back against the ever-aggressive coercion of religion.
That said, the information age has created a situation where those doubts and criticism are now permanently out there and cannot be erased. This creates a momentum that did not exist in the past which could continue without much additional fuel to erode both formal religions and the supposed "virtue" of faith more generally. While the theists cries of persecution are absurd and hypocritical they do likely have some impact on swaying some fence sitters to the side of theists. Thus, we should be careful not to make it easier for them to make such arguments by pushing to increase the current momentum beyond the pace that the fence sitters who could be our allies are comfortable with, while also not allowing that momentum to wane.
The recent increase in non-believers, doubters and non-affiliated is not due to some "natural course", but a result of the result of the increased efforts by some brave atheists to push back against the ever-aggressive coercion of religion.
That said, the information age has created a situation where those doubts and criticism are now permanently out there and cannot be erased. This creates a momentum that did not exist in the past which could continue without much additional fuel to erode both formal religions and the supposed "virtue" of faith more generally. While the theists cries of persecution are absurd and hypocritical they do likely have some impact on swaying some fence sitters to the side of theists. Thus, we should be careful not to make it easier for them to make such arguments by pushing to increase the current momentum beyond the pace that the fence sitters who could be our allies are comfortable with, while also not allowing that momentum to wane.
Shake
Senior Member
If they're apathetic, then at least they won't be controlled by religious groups, nor will they give money to them. I know some apathetic atheists, they tend to have a 'live and let live' attitude which is not a horrible way to be. It keeps them more socially liberal which I see as a good thing, being more tolerant and accepting of others; not rejecting people because of things like sexuality or what have you.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
I actually don't think that is necessarily a good thing. Religion has historically not only been about raping young boys. It has also been about giving emotional support, and helping people across generational gaps get along. It's also been about arbitration. And perhaps teaching people things like humility and forgiveness. Religion has it's usages.
The one thing about religion that is universally destructive and bad, is the belief in God. Since it's inherently self serving. What are the chances that your imaginary voice you have in your head is going to give you a reality check? It'll probably tell you that having another piece of cake is just what you need.
So a world without religion, and with theism... is the worst possible scenario. We'll see what happens.