White Nationalist Violence

[Jolly_Penguin]

There is an event by Richard Spencer in Florida today, and they have called a national state of emergency because of it and are spending half a million on added police security. Why? Is it because the white nationalists are likely to strike out and form lynch mobs and attack random non-white people in the streets? Is it because people will come and protest against the white nationalist event and get violent doing so? Is it because the white nationalists will answer that with violence of their own?

If this sort of event could just happen without all the attention called to it, I think everybody would be better off. It could go pretty much ignored instead of becoming a national story with more attention drawn to the white nationalist cause, and violence could probably be prevented. Or is it important to protest and scream at white nationalists, at a fevered pitch that could easily escalate to violence?

How common today is white nationalist violence? Do they actually go around attacking people? Is this a huge issue? I don't know the answer to that, as I live up in Canadia.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/security-r...source_4380645_1_hero_headlines_headlines_hed

 

[Arctish]

Was it important for people to oppose white nationalists in Germany in the 1930s? Everything I've heard from Holocaust survivors says the answer is 'yes'. The fact most Germans didn't protest and scream at white nationalists at a fevered pitch that could easily escalate to violence was bitterly regretted by those who suffered when the white nationalists rose to power.

 

[sharon45]

Was it important for people to oppose white nationalists in Germany in the 1930s? Everything I've heard from Holocaust survivors says the answer is 'yes'. The fact most Germans didn't protest and scream at white nationalists at a fevered pitch that could easily escalate to violence was bitterly regretted by those who suffered when the white nationalists rose to power.

When we have to be lowered into essentially barking at each other, then the haters are getting what they want.

 

[Ford]

If this sort of event could just happen without all the attention called to it, I think everybody would be better off. It could go pretty much ignored instead of becoming a national story with more attention drawn to the white nationalist cause, and violence could probably be prevented.

I don't think we should ignore them at all. Get their pasty white asses out there in the sunlight so everyone can see how repugnant they are. They're like a cancer that went into remission for a long time, and is now back with a vengeance. We ignored them for too long and let them fester, and while we weren't looking they raised a new generation of assholes.

 

[J842P]

Was it important for people to oppose white nationalists in Germany in the 1930s? Everything I've heard from Holocaust survivors says the answer is 'yes'. The fact most Germans didn't protest and scream at white nationalists at a fevered pitch that could easily escalate to violence was bitterly regretted by those who suffered when the white nationalists rose to power.

Um, actually, what we saw in Germany that allowed Hitler to come to power was violent opposition to the Nazis. Black-block anarchists and Brownshirts would clash in the streets. The Nazis *were* violently opposed by Communists/Anarchists. Indeed, Hitler's ultimate rise to power via the Enabling Act became possible because Hitler convinced the German people to give him emergency powers because of the imminent threat of a communist takeover. Some historians believe the Reichstag fire may have been a false flag, orchestrated by the Nazis themselves. Others think it may have been a lone, crazy communist. In any event, what history does show is that the violent opposition to the Nazis is exactly what allowed them to seize absolute power from the Republic. Indeed, what these stupid, narcissistic Antifa fuck's don't understand is that everything they are doing is making the alt-right **more sympathetic** because, fundamentally, the vast majority of the population gets uneasy about "law and order" breaking down. It is the oldest trick in the authoritarian handbook.

Of course, the historical parallels to Germany in the 1930s are overblown. The vast, VAST majority of people, even on the Trump side, are not White Nationalists. On the other hand, the majority of people in Germany (indeed, in Europe) were anti-semites. The Holocaust could have happened anywhere in Europe, and indeed, European history is riddled with smaller-scale Holocausts.

More importantly, a nativist, populist uprising that is represented by Trump is nothing new in the American political sphere. The people who compare Trump to Hitler give him too much power. The people who say that Richard Spencer's movement is anywhere near the same as the Nazi's in 1920s/30s Germany give them too much power. The stupid, narcissistic, illiterate idiots who dress up in black and burn down cities when conservatives talk, especially the "scholars" who support them, are doing everything that Trump could hope for them to do if Trump *were* interested in a 1930's Hitler-style takeover.

 

[sharon45]

More importantly, a nativist, populist uprising that is represented by Trump is nothing new in the American political sphere. The people who compare Trump to Hitler give him too much power. The people who say that Richard Spencer's movement is anywhere near the same as the Nazi's in 1920s/30s Germany give them too much power.

Yes, but they can easily see it as wanting to nip this much smaller uprising in the bud.

 

[Arctish]

Was it important for people to oppose white nationalists in Germany in the 1930s? Everything I've heard from Holocaust survivors says the answer is 'yes'. The fact most Germans didn't protest and scream at white nationalists at a fevered pitch that could easily escalate to violence was bitterly regretted by those who suffered when the white nationalists rose to power.

Um, actually, what we saw in Germany that allowed Hitler to come to power was violent opposition to the Nazis.

No, actually what we saw in Germany that allowed Hitler to come to power was an angry populace suffering from the effects of the Great Depression and losing WWI. If the people hadn't been feeling their nation's social and economic situation was circling the drain, they wouldn't have felt the need for radical change. If they hadn't ignored the rise of a strongman leading a fascist organization of True Believers, he wouldn't have been able to establish a dictatorship.

Hitler rose to power because he wasn't opposed enough.

Black-block anarchists and Brownshirts would clash in the streets. The Nazis *were* violently opposed by Communists/Anarchists. Indeed, Hitler's ultimate rise to power via the Enabling Act became possible because Hitler convinced the German people to give him emergency powers because of the imminent threat of a communist takeover. Some historians believe the Reichstag fire may have been a false flag, orchestrated by the Nazis themselves. Others think it may have been a lone, crazy communist. In any event, what history does show is that the violent opposition to the Nazis is exactly what allowed them to seize absolute power from the Republic. Indeed, what these stupid, narcissistic Antifa fuck's don't understand is that everything they are doing is making the alt-right **more sympathetic** because, fundamentally, the vast majority of the population gets uneasy about "law and order" breaking down. It is the oldest trick in the authoritarian handbook.

Nah, the oldest trick in the authoritarian handbook is to convince people that opposing them is wrong, or foolish, or counter-productive.

Of course, the historical parallels to Germany in the 1930s are overblown. The vast, VAST majority of people, even on the Trump side, are not White Nationalists. On the other hand, the majority of people in Germany (indeed, in Europe) were anti-semites. The Holocaust could have happened anywhere in Europe, and indeed, European history is riddled with smaller-scale Holocausts.

More importantly, a nativist, populist uprising that is represented by Trump is nothing new in the American political sphere. The people who compare Trump to Hitler give him too much power. The people who say that Richard Spencer's movement is anywhere near the same as the Nazi's in 1920s/30s Germany give them too much power. The stupid, narcissistic, illiterate idiots who dress up in black and burn down cities when conservatives talk, especially the "scholars" who support them, are doing everything that Trump could hope for them to do if Trump *were* interested in a 1930's Hitler-style takeover.

I agree that the vast majority of people, even on the Trump side, are not White Nationalists. I disagree that the historical parallels to Germany in the 1930s are overblown. The Nazis of the 1930s started out small, too.

The Nazis today aren't substantially different from the Nazis back then. It's the same shit in a shiny, new package, but with the same symbols and slogans so you know it's the same shit.

I agree with Ford. We ignored them for a while and all that happened was they gathered up another generation of white supremacists willing to spill blood to get their way. Ignoring them some more won't moderate their position, change their tactics, or thwart their ambitions.

If you don't want Nazis in charge then you have to oppose them. Loudly, insistently, perhaps rudely, and most importantly with courage and determination because you're going up against people who have openly declared their willingness to kill you if you get in their way.

 

[Mumbles]

How common today is white nationalist violence? Do they actually go around attacking people? Is this a huge issue? I don't know the answer to that, as I live up in Canadia.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/security-r...source_4380645_1_hero_headlines_headlines_hed

Does the entire island of Puerto Rico count? Trump's plain hostility towards any adequate response there seems tied entirely to the population being Spanish-speaking, and largely Afro-Latino, even if it's not direct violence.

Of course, while most violence in the US is intraracial, there was also that mob in Charlottesville that tried to murder a number of people (and succeeded in one case), the random stabbings and shootings, and so on.

 

[fromderinside]

This has gone far enough. An election was lost. A thug is in charge. Those facts are not enough for us to reduce ourselves to his level. McCain hit the right note. Kelley reminds a bit of Hindenburg. There is nothing sacred here. Recast bad behavior to encompass and normalize crudity will not do it. There is only base behavior and thought to be countered with good behavior and thought.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

How common today is white nationalist violence? Do they actually go around attacking people? Is this a huge issue? I don't know the answer to that, as I live up in Canadia.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/security-r...source_4380645_1_hero_headlines_headlines_hed

Does murder count as violence, because there was that whole murder thing, where that woman protester was run over by a white supremacist. He ran a bunch of other people over too, but they survived.

Or are we talking about violence of a different type?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Was it important for people to oppose white nationalists in Germany in the 1930s? Everything I've heard from Holocaust survivors says the answer is 'yes'. The fact most Germans didn't protest and scream at white nationalists at a fevered pitch that could easily escalate to violence was bitterly regretted by those who suffered when the white nationalists rose to power.

When we have to be lowered into essentially barking at each other, then the haters are getting what they want.

Barking back and forth between Democrats and Republicans is one thing, but barking at and/or hating Nazis is different.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

How common today is white nationalist violence?

Depends on what you mean by "today." For what it's worth, until about the mid 1980s, the term "race riot" had a very SPECIFIC meaning in America.

Just because it hasn't happened in a while doesn't mean it'll never happen again...

 

[TSwizzle]

There is an event by Richard Spencer in Florida today, and they have called a national state of emergency because of it and are spending half a million on added police security. Why? Is it because the white nationalists are likely to strike out and form lynch mobs and attack random non-white people in the streets? Is it because people will come and protest against the white nationalist event and get violent doing so? Is it because the white nationalists will answer that with violence of their own?

If this sort of event could just happen without all the attention called to it, I think everybody would be better off. It could go pretty much ignored instead of becoming a national story with more attention drawn to the white nationalist cause, and violence could probably be prevented. Or is it important to protest and scream at white nationalists, at a fevered pitch that could easily escalate to violence?

How common today is white nationalist violence? Do they actually go around attacking people? Is this a huge issue? I don't know the answer to that, as I live up in Canadia.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/security-r...source_4380645_1_hero_headlines_headlines_hed

I think it has become fashionable to be seen violently protesting at these types of events. A load of posturing on both sides by assholes.

There's a cracking picture in the link of an asshole wearing a t-shirt with swastikas on it receiving a punch in the mouth. This knuckle dragging idiot must be retarded or something. Is it even possible to get through to someone as dim as this ?

 

[sharon45]

When we have to be lowered into essentially barking at each other, then the haters are getting what they want.

Barking back and forth between Democrats and Republicans is one thing, but barking at and/or hating Nazis is different.

I have no problem with hating the haters, it is about how the anger is used. That Dylann Roof was hoping to spark a race war, as others like him want everybody fighting in the mud, because they have such a dreary view of people.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/3-...ve-nazi-salute-before-shooting-at-protestors/

Police in Gainesville, Florida on Thursday arrested three white men in connection to a shooting that took place following a speech by avowed white supremacist Richard Spencer.
Tyler Tenbrink, William Fears and Colton Fears—two of whom police say have known ties to extremist organizations—are being held in the Alachua County Jail on charges of attempted homicide after allegedly firing on another group of people during a violent encounter shortly after Spencer’s speech.
According to police, the trio argued with and threatened a group of protestors demonstrating against Spencer, who was addressing a small crowd at the University of Florida Phillips Center for Performing Arts.
......

Small brained fools with guns.

 

[sharon45]

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/3-...ve-nazi-salute-before-shooting-at-protestors/

Police in Gainesville, Florida on Thursday arrested three white men in connection to a shooting that took place following a speech by avowed white supremacist Richard Spencer.
Tyler Tenbrink, William Fears and Colton Fears—two of whom police say have known ties to extremist organizations—are being held in the Alachua County Jail on charges of attempted homicide after allegedly firing on another group of people during a violent encounter shortly after Spencer’s speech.

According to NBC Nightly News yesterday, Spencer's speech was supposedly drowned out by chants from protesters.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Barking back and forth between Democrats and Republicans is one thing, but barking at and/or hating Nazis is different.

I have no problem with hating the haters, it is about how the anger is used. That Dylann Roof was hoping to spark a race war, as others like him want everybody fighting in the mud, because they have such a dreary view of people.

"hating the haters?" No, there's strong dislike/hate, and then there's genocidal agenda like the Nazis. Those are different beasts.

"Dylan Roof ...as others like him" don't "want everybody fighting in the mud." They want to bond with other losers while killing people. They don't care if their opponents are swearing or hating, maybe some of them even want to catch everybody by surprise.

"they have such a dreary view of people" -- they have a dreary view of their targets --blacks, Jews, etc.

Right now Nazis and some of the alt-right are a threat and they are not run-of-the-mill Republicans. Republicans and Libertarians ought to realize they are a threat just as much as Democrats do. Society ought to deal with this problem now, not later. If some people are barking at them at their protests, providing negative social feedback and drawing society's attention to the issue, then that is overall good. If some other people are choosing to violently defend monitories then that is also good. If others are writing essays extolling the virtues of not being a Nazi, then that's good, too.

In response to the op, if you let a group of thousands of Nazis get together with no one watching them, they probably will do something violent to somebody. Having other people exercise their constitutional rights to show up, protesting them, and watching them, even recording them is a good thing.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Right now Nazis and some of the alt-right are a threat and they are not run-of-the-mill Republicans. Republicans and Libertarians ought to realize they are a threat just as much as Democrats do. Society ought to deal with this problem now, not later. If some people are barking at them at their protests, providing negative social feedback and drawing society's attention to the issue, then that is overall good. If some other people are choosing to violently defend monitories then that is also good. If others are writing essays extolling the virtues of not being a Nazi, then that's good, too.

I cannot speak for Republicans (nice lumping by the way) as the only connection between Republicans and Libertarians is that Republicans like Underseer are upset that Libertarians don't deliver the vote. I can speak for Libertarians, and while we do see them as a threat we don't see them as a threat sufficient to suspend the constitution. This is the same argument we heard from Republicans back when the War on Terror was a huge news item, that since we weren't willing to suspend the constitution therefore we sided with the terror-wrists.

White Supremacists and Nazis are a small fringe group. They are either disliked or hated by everyone not in their fringe group. And I am supposed to believe that they are about to take over and start enacting fascist and racist policies if we don't immediately suspend the constitution? That is as absurd as when Antifa says that this group will take over unless Antifa throws bricks at them.

Yes, they have violent shitheads among their numbers. Deal with the criminals like you deal with criminals, and that is all that is actually needed. Treat criminals like criminals and you'll be amazed at what happens. But, and this is the tricky part, you have to do it to all criminals. Not just the ones you don't like, but the ones who are saving us from less than 10,000 people taking over, saving us by the heroic measure of throwing bricks at them. "If some other people are choosing to violently defend minorities" that is fighting a monster by becoming a monster, and no matter who wins you are left with a monster. Everything else you wrote as a solution was good, the only thing you wrote that was clearly morally wrong was saying that initiating violence was morally right.

If you're willing to suspend the constitution over a threat this small, imagine what you'd find acceptable if faced with a real menace.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think we should suspend the Constitution.

There... now it isn't a strawman.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Anyone who argues that White Nationalists, White Supremacists, Nazis, current-title, etc., should not be allowed to speak is advocating that the Constitution be suspended, so it was never a strawman. In case you have forgotten, the 1st Amendment is part of the Constitution.

Those who advocate that it is permissible to initiate violence against the same are advocating that the rule of law be suspended.