Another QB loses job for exercising free speech rights

[Derec]

You can't show me any "antics".

He misused the football game, where he represented his team in uniform, to spread his political message.

He wore some questionable socks once. Who knows when?

During the "taking the knee" protests. When do you think?

A black man kneels silently and that just upsets the Neanderthals.

It has nothing to do with him being black. If a white man protested the US while he was on the clock and wearing his employer's uniform that'd be just as inappropriate.
If a conservative QB (of any race) protested US for say legalizing gay marriage or not banning abortion, that would be equally inappropriate. The hypothetical QB, just like Kaep, should exercise his first amendment rights on his own time.

He is being paid only to be a spokesperson.

And a big part of being a football player, especially a quarterback, is being a de-facto spokesperson. There is no intrinsic value in throwing a prolate spheroid around. The only value, the only reason these people are being paid millions, is that people a willing to pay to see them throw the prolate spheroid around.

But that requires having a positive image with women too.

And selling >$100 football tickets requires having a positive image with people who dislike the #BLM movement and having their football game experience marred with pro-#BLM messages.

 

[untermensche]

He misused the football game, where he represented his team in uniform, to spread his political message.

That is called an antic not antics and nobody saw it. That was some picture from practice.

During the "taking the knee" protests. When do you think?

Definitely not during anything real. That looks like he was dressed for practice. Definitely not dressed for a game.

If a white man protested the US while he was on the clock and wearing his employer's uniform that'd be just as inappropriate.

What makes something inappropriate is the actual conduct.

Showing respect and kneeling cannot be twisted into disrespect.

The hypothetical QB, just like Kaep, should exercise his first amendment rights on his own time.

That is an insanity of the modern world.

ALL of Kaepernick's time is HIS time.

Nobody owns him because he makes them money and they give him a little.

And a big part of being a football player, especially a quarterback, is being a de-facto spokesperson. There is no intrinsic value in throwing a prolate spheroid around.

There is intrinsic value in any activity if TV stations will pay you to broadcast it.

And the only thing a QB is paid for is to play football. He can't protest such that it disrupts play. And he can't be disrespectful. He can't moon the crowd.

 

[Derec]

That is called an antic not antics and nobody saw it. That was some picture from practice.

If nobody saw it then we would not be talking about it. Obviously photos were taken and many people have seen them.

Definitely not during anything real. That looks like he was dressed for practice. Definitely not dressed for a game.

He is still on the clock wearing his employer's uniform.

Showing respect and kneeling cannot be twisted into disrespect.

Was he showing respect? The whole message of his protest is "US sucks because sometimes police shoot criminals like Mike Brown or Mario Woods".

The hypothetical QB, just like Kaep, should exercise his first amendment rights on his own time.

That is an insanity of the modern world. ALL of Kaepernick's time is HIS time.

It obviously isn't.

Nobody owns him because he makes them money and they give him a little.

Utter idiocy of calling Kaep's compensation "little" aside, nobody said that somebody owns him. This trope of equating multimillionaire professional athletes with "slavery" is almost as idiotic.
But when you work, you in effect sell your time. You are not expected to go about personal vendettas on company time.

There is intrinsic value in any activity if TV stations will pay you to broadcast it.

That is not intrinsic, it's contingent on people wanting to watch you.

And the only thing a QB is paid for is to play football. He can't protest such that it disrupts play. And he can't be disrespectful. He can't moon the crowd.

But protesting the anthem in support of dead thugs like Mike Brown is fine?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

For some reason the Pledge was twirling in my mind.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the US. And to the Republic, for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, and justice for all.

So, you might have noticed the "justice for all" part. The Flag is representing the ideals of justice for all. When Kaepernick kneeled, he felt justice wasn't be had for all. That the shootings and lack of justice for them was against the principle the Flag is supposed to stand for. Now I know he's black, so that figures into some people's calculus, but It seems that kneeling to the flag when there are wrongs being perpetrated by a broken Justice system seems entirely appropriate.

Cam Newton, meanwhile pointed out a reporter had a vagina and therefore he wasn't really going to answer the question. The juxtapositioning of the two incidents is umm... fucking stupid. It is almost as bad as putting antifa and Neo-Nazis next to each in conversation.

 

[dismal]

For some reason the Pledge was twirling in my mind.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the US. And to the Republic, for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, and justice for all.

So, you might have noticed the "justice for all" part. The Flag is representing the ideals of justice for all. When Kaepernick kneeled, he felt justice wasn't be had for all. That the shootings and lack of justice for them was against the principle the Flag is supposed to stand for. Now I know he's black, so that figures into some people's calculus, but It seems that kneeling to the flag when there are wrongs being perpetrated by a broken Justice system seems entirely appropriate.

Cam Newton, meanwhile pointed out a reporter had a vagina and therefore he wasn't really going to answer the question. The juxtapositioning of the two incidents is umm... fucking stupid. It is almost as bad as putting antifa and Neo-Nazis next to each in conversation.

I must have missed the meeting where we appointed you the guy who gets to decide what speech is and isn't good.

Also, since you bring up America, it was built on free speech.

Also, you botched the pledge. You chose to forget about the "with liberty". Liberty includes free speech. Upon which America was built.

 

[untermensche]

Was he showing respect? The whole message of his protest is "US sucks because sometimes police shoot criminals like Mike Brown or Mario Woods".

Do you understand the difference between showing something and the message behind something?

Kaepernick showed the stupid song respect.

If that is not respect what are all those people doing in the churches?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Reality: If you're a spokesmodel you don't say things that will upset the target audience.

He did. He's not a spokesmodel any more.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean there are no consequences from the speech.

 

[laughing dog]

He misused the football game...

How does a player "misuse" a game?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Dale Earnhardt Jr is a bitch ass nigga.

That one comment from the reporter 5 years ago doesn't forgive Newton's comment. Newton's an asshole.

I have to say that I totally changed my mind today. I listened to Newton's apology. I found it sincere and heartfelt. I think that he just made a mistake.

 

[dismal]

That one comment from the reporter 5 years ago doesn't forgive Newton's comment. Newton's an asshole.

I have to say that I totally changed my mind today. I listened to Newton's apology. I found it sincere and heartfelt. I think that he just made a mistake.

Well, it's too late I guess since no other yogurt companies are willing to sign him we can conclude he's being blackballed by the yogurt companies.

 

[untermensche]

I have to say that I totally changed my mind today. I listened to Newton's apology. I found it sincere and heartfelt. I think that he just made a mistake.

Well, it's too late I guess since no other yogurt companies are willing to sign him we can conclude he's being blackballed by the yogurt companies.

How many spokespeople do the yogurt companies have to choose from?

Are they confined to NFL QB's that play in North Carolina?

How many people do you think can play QB professionally?

They dug long retired players up before going to a man still in his prime.

Something very fishy about that.

NFL teams usually do everything to win. But in this case they pass over a better option?

No, nothing unusual here.

 

[Malintent]

But there is a natural right to NFL money for Kaep et al?
Or is it the content of their speech that leads you to the different conclusion?

What did Kaepernick do?

He knelt silently.

He showed more respect than most.

How is that a violation of his contract?

You'll notice he was not fired.

Just blackballed.

It would technically be a violation of his contract if, within the contract, it stated that players will follow all Company policies. One such company policy is standing for the broadcast of the National Anthem.

All freedoms have limits... they end about where other people's freedoms begin. The freedom to set company policy and exercise agreed-upon enforcement clauses in light of violation of their agreed-upon policies is one of those limits.

No one ever said these individuals may not exercise their First Amendment rights of peaceful protest nor that the NFL has unfair policies regarding the on-field (aka, "on-the-job") behavior of their employees.

If you unilaterally decided to express your "Free Speech" at your place of work, by way of openly espousing your belief that your employer is a scumbag, then that "scumbag" has the right to exercise THEIR free speech and say, "your fucking fired".

 

[untermensche]

What did Kaepernick do?

He knelt silently.

He showed more respect than most.

How is that a violation of his contract?

You'll notice he was not fired.

Just blackballed.

It would technically be a violation of his contract if, within the contract, it stated that players will follow all Company policies. One such company policy is standing for the broadcast of the National Anthem.

That is only if the union approves of such a clause.

All freedoms have limits... they end about where other people's freedoms begin. The freedom to set company policy and exercise agreed-upon enforcement clauses in light of violation of their agreed-upon policies is one of those limits.

Exactly. The freedoms of owners are not unlimited.

They have no right to forbid conduct that does not disrupt anything.

 

[coloradoatheist]

It would technically be a violation of his contract if, within the contract, it stated that players will follow all Company policies. One such company policy is standing for the broadcast of the National Anthem.

That is only if the union approves of such a clause.

All freedoms have limits... they end about where other people's freedoms begin. The freedom to set company policy and exercise agreed-upon enforcement clauses in light of violation of their agreed-upon policies is one of those limits.

Exactly. The freedoms of owners are not unlimited.

They have no right to forbid conduct that does not disrupt anything.

They certainly have a right not to hire someone who they see as being hurting their fan base. And there were several clauses in the contract they could have used if they had wanted to.

 

[untermensche]

That is only if the union approves of such a clause.

All freedoms have limits... they end about where other people's freedoms begin. The freedom to set company policy and exercise agreed-upon enforcement clauses in light of violation of their agreed-upon policies is one of those limits.

Exactly. The freedoms of owners are not unlimited.

They have no right to forbid conduct that does not disrupt anything.

They certainly have a right not to hire someone who they see as being hurting their fan base. And there were several clauses in the contract they could have used if they had wanted to.

Not hiring blacks for QB would help improve the fan base in some places.

 

[coloradoatheist]

That is only if the union approves of such a clause.

All freedoms have limits... they end about where other people's freedoms begin. The freedom to set company policy and exercise agreed-upon enforcement clauses in light of violation of their agreed-upon policies is one of those limits.

Exactly. The freedoms of owners are not unlimited.

They have no right to forbid conduct that does not disrupt anything.

They certainly have a right not to hire someone who they see as being hurting their fan base. And there were several clauses in the contract they could have used if they had wanted to.

Not hiring blacks for QB would help improve the fan base in some places.

But yet on most teams, they have no problem using blacks on their team. If Kapernick was better than Brady somebody would pick him up. He's a an average QB at best and a team splittler. Hence why he is not hired.

 

[dismal]

That is only if the union approves of such a clause.

All freedoms have limits... they end about where other people's freedoms begin. The freedom to set company policy and exercise agreed-upon enforcement clauses in light of violation of their agreed-upon policies is one of those limits.

Exactly. The freedoms of owners are not unlimited.

They have no right to forbid conduct that does not disrupt anything.

They certainly have a right not to hire someone who they see as being hurting their fan base. And there were several clauses in the contract they could have used if they had wanted to.

Not hiring blacks for QB would help improve the fan base in some places.

But yet on most teams, they have no problem using blacks on their team. If Kapernick was better than Brady somebody would pick him up. He's a an average QB at best and a team splittler. Hence why he is not hired.

The NFL is 70% Black.

But the racist owners are still afraid to hire Black kickers and punters cuz it might piss off the fans.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That is only if the union approves of such a clause.

All freedoms have limits... they end about where other people's freedoms begin. The freedom to set company policy and exercise agreed-upon enforcement clauses in light of violation of their agreed-upon policies is one of those limits.

Exactly. The freedoms of owners are not unlimited.

They have no right to forbid conduct that does not disrupt anything.

They certainly have a right not to hire someone who they see as being hurting their fan base. And there were several clauses in the contract they could have used if they had wanted to.

Not hiring blacks for QB would help improve the fan base in some places.

But yet on most teams, they have no problem using blacks on their team. If Kapernick was better than Brady somebody would pick him up. He's a an average QB at best and a team splittler. Hence why he is not hired.

Odd how San Fran is 0-5 without Kaepernick. Might explain why his passer rating was above 90 (with an excellent TD to INT ratio), yet his record was 1-10. Was Kapernick responsible for 30+ point games the 49er defense gave up?

Kaepernick's problem is he definitely has to have some rust. But heck even Josh McCown started yesterday! Only 20 QBs have better QB Ratings this season than Kaepernick had in '16... and he did it for a team that sucked. He is better than "average".

 

[dismal]

That is only if the union approves of such a clause.

All freedoms have limits... they end about where other people's freedoms begin. The freedom to set company policy and exercise agreed-upon enforcement clauses in light of violation of their agreed-upon policies is one of those limits.

Exactly. The freedoms of owners are not unlimited.

They have no right to forbid conduct that does not disrupt anything.

They certainly have a right not to hire someone who they see as being hurting their fan base. And there were several clauses in the contract they could have used if they had wanted to.

Not hiring blacks for QB would help improve the fan base in some places.

But yet on most teams, they have no problem using blacks on their team. If Kapernick was better than Brady somebody would pick him up. He's a an average QB at best and a team splittler. Hence why he is not hired.

Odd how San Fran is 0-5 without Kaepernick. Might explain why his passer rating was above 90 (with an excellent TD to INT ratio), yet his record was 1-11.

So, you're saying San Francisco is one of the worst teams in the league and they still don't want Kaepernick despite the fact they know him better than anyone and proved they were willing to accept his protests? And have other players currently protesting on the roster?

You make a solid point. He's must be that bad.

 

[RavenSky]

He has a contract. Had one.

Not a natural right to Dannon's money.

But there is a natural right to NFL money for Kaep et al?
Or is it the content of their speech that leads you to the different conclusion?

The NFL is paying Collin Kaepernick? How much?