Outrage as faculty caught conspiring to reward less qualified minorities

[Derec]

The information in the article can reasonably be interpreted that this assistant is telling the professor why there are no latinos on the mock trial team. There is certainly no information available that the professor was demanding or asking that standards be lowered, so the conclusion that there was some sort of "conspiracy" is unsupported by the OP article.

She is asking specifically if she should take more Latino students that warranted by performance.
Reading comprehension fail, ld.

 

[whichphilosophy]

The information in the article can reasonably be interpreted that this assistant is telling the professor why there are no latinos on the mock trial team. There is certainly no information available that the professor was demanding or asking that standards be lowered, so the conclusion that there was some sort of "conspiracy" is unsupported by the OP article.

Yet we have the usual alt SJWs jumping to the usual alt-SJW conclusions.

In the UK we are 'bold' about 'positive discrimination.' In fact the BBC (a.k.a. British Brainwashing Corporation) has been at it for years. Positive discrimination is of course of the same magnitude as discrimination on the basis of race gender and colour,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36443113
BBC: Offering black, Asian and minority ethnic schemes is 'right thing to do'


The BBC has defended offering traineeships to ethnic minorities after a national newspaper accused the corporation of being "anti-white".
The Sun quoted a job hunter who was turned down from a junior scriptwriting role because it was only available to people from "ethnic minorities".

In a statement, the BBC said The Sun's headline was "irresponsible".
It added as there is a lack of diversity in the industry, the trainee scheme was "the right thing to do".
The Sun claimed the recruitment process, under the Equalities Act, "was illegal to discriminate against job applicants on grounds of race, unless crucial to the role".

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Why don't these policies just flat out be honest about it? Ontario's Pay Equity law is. I was surprised to be required earlier this year to provide information to the Ontario government about pay structure in our company and the very specific language "To ensure that women are paid at least as well as men".... "AT LEAST AS WELL". They don't care at all if men are paid unfairly; only women.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Since it does not appear English is your first language, the quote you have highlighted is entirely consistent with my comments.

But not your OP title. They weren't conspiring TO reward anyone, they were lamenting the fact that minorities weren't worth rewarding.

In that passage she is asking her father how much she should put her thumb on the scale in favor of less qualified latinxes to achieve diversity.

No, she's complaining that there ISN'T alot of diversity in that class and the few minorities they do have probably aren't qualified to be there in the first place.

That's why I point out CONTEXT. She isn't asking her father to do anything, she's complaining that the Latinos are terrible students and there's nothing they can really do about it.

 

[dismal]

But not your OP title. They weren't conspiring TO reward anyone, they were lamenting the fact that minorities weren't worth rewarding.

In that passage she is asking her father how much she should put her thumb on the scale in favor of less qualified latinxes to achieve diversity.

No, she's complaining that there ISN'T alot of diversity in that class and the few minorities they do have probably aren't qualified to be there in the first place.

That's why I point out CONTEXT. She isn't asking her father to do anything, she's complaining that the Latinos are terrible students and there's nothing they can really do about it.

Dude, her words are right there to read.

She laments the lack of diversity, says she'll definitely take one mediocre , skills lacking, maybe too busy Latinx, and asks if she should take another 2. It's clearly a discussion of how much the thumb should be paced on the scale in favor of less qualified minorities. The only thing we don't know from the article is what they ended up deciding. It's odd that a journalist would not have bothered to find out how many latinxes they did ultimately accept.

 

[ronburgundy]

So, a prof was fired because the assistant coach on a competitive mock trial team noted that some students were "mediocre" in that one specific skill, which a statistically truth that applies to most students an any given skill.

Or maybe they were fired because they expressed a desire to have a more diverse team with more latinos.

No, sadly they were likely fired because people are raging idiots who reach conclusions like, because the words "latino" and "mediocre" were used within the same paragraph, the person must have been claiming that all latinos are mediocre at everything simply because they are latino.

Hilariously, one of the students being discussed (and head of the Latinx Student Union) proved she was in fact unqualified and incompetent at logic and reasoned argument by drawing this very conclusion and calling the the email "racist".

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

No, sadly they were likely fired because people are raging idiots who reach conclusions like, because the words "latino" and "mediocre" were used within the same paragraph, the person must have been claiming that all latinos are mediocre at everything simply because they are latino.

Hilariously, one of the students being discussed (and head of the Latinx Student Union) proved she was in fact unqualified and incompetent at logic and reasoned argument by drawing this very conclusion and calling the the email "racist".

Exactly. What is racist about this against latinos? It actually IS racist, but in their favour.

 

[laughing dog]

The information in the article can reasonably be interpreted that this assistant is telling the professor why there are no latinos on the mock trial team. There is certainly no information available that the professor was demanding or asking that standards be lowered, so the conclusion that there was some sort of "conspiracy" is unsupported by the OP article.

She is asking specifically if she should take more Latino students that warranted by performance.
Reading comprehension fail, ld.

From the OP

In the email to students, Abigail Graber wrote that she had a question about diversity. While lamenting that they had “almost no Latino students on team,” she proceeded to say that the Latino students were not very qualified for the class.

“If I were to rank purely on performance, I would probably only take 1 of them. Should I take 2? All three? None have mock trial experience,” Abigail Graber wrote. “The mediocre one is extremely involved in community activism/organizing (she’s the one I would probably take no matter what, what she lacks in skill she makes up in confidence, although she may be too busy for this commitment).”

Nowhere is she asking about taking any Latino student onto the team. She is explicitly explaining why none of them are making team, as anyone with middle school reading comprehension can see. Any other interpretation requires additional information or assumptions.

Please point to where you think she is specifically asking to take more Latino students or to reduce the standards and even take one Latino student, or to where there is additional information elsewhere that substantiates your claim.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

But not your OP title. They weren't conspiring TO reward anyone, they were lamenting the fact that minorities weren't worth rewarding.



No, she's complaining that there ISN'T alot of diversity in that class and the few minorities they do have probably aren't qualified to be there in the first place.

That's why I point out CONTEXT. She isn't asking her father to do anything, she's complaining that the Latinos are terrible students and there's nothing they can really do about it.

Dude, her words are right there to read.

She laments the lack of diversity, says she'll definitely take one mediocre , skills lacking, maybe too busy Latinx, and asks if she should take another 2.

Read it again, dude. Those students were ALREADY IN THE CLASS. It wasn't up to her whether to "take" them or not, they registered for it and were about to take it. She wasn't asking whether she should take another two, she was complaining that if she had a choice -- which she didn't -- she wouldn't have let them in the class in the first place.

That discussion relates to the mock trial TEAM that this class is apparently supposed to prepare them for. In essence, this is a "look at the shit I have to deal with!" conversation, with her saying that "There aren't alot of Latinos on the mock trial team, and judging by the students in the class, there never will be."

 

[laughing dog]

Dude, her words are right there to read.

She laments the lack of diversity, says she'll definitely take one mediocre , skills lacking, maybe too busy Latinx, and asks if she should take another 2.

Clearly English is not even your 2nd language, because the term "would probably" does not mean "definitely".

 

[dismal]

Dude, her words are right there to read.

She laments the lack of diversity, says she'll definitely take one mediocre , skills lacking, maybe too busy Latinx, and asks if she should take another 2.

Read it again, dude. Those students were ALREADY IN THE CLASS. It wasn't up to her whether to "take" them or not, they registered for it and were about to take it. She wasn't asking whether she should take another two, she was complaining that if she had a choice -- which she didn't -- she wouldn't have let them in the class in the first place.

That discussion relates to the mock trial TEAM that this class is apparently supposed to prepare them for. In essence, this is a "look at the shit I have to deal with!" conversation.

Sorry, you are not entitled to create your own special reality. They are talking about filling a set number of spots with unregistered students, and how many unqualified latinx students they should take in the name of diversity.

This link has more of her actual email.

http://www.dbknews.com/2017/09/01/u...professor-mock-trial-resigns-email-diversity/

 

[laughing dog]

Read it again, dude. Those students were ALREADY IN THE CLASS. It wasn't up to her whether to "take" them or not, they registered for it and were about to take it. She wasn't asking whether she should take another two, she was complaining that if she had a choice -- which she didn't -- she wouldn't have let them in the class in the first place.

That discussion relates to the mock trial TEAM that this class is apparently supposed to prepare them for. In essence, this is a "look at the shit I have to deal with!" conversation.

Sorry, you are not entitled to create your own special reality. They are talking about filling a set number of spots with unregistered students, and how many unqualified latinx students they should take in the name of diversity.

This link has more of her actual email.

http://www.dbknews.com/2017/09/01/u...professor-mock-trial-resigns-email-diversity/

The link does not substantiate your bigoted claim.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How is this anything but standard fare affirmative action thinking exposed? From a pro-minority point of view, what exactly did they do wrong? They were concerned about getting more latinos into the program, and considering letting some in who they felt were less than qualified, but because they are latino they were getting special consideration.That's wrong, but its biased in favour of latinos, not against them. It is the individuals that were being called poor students, not latinos in general.

But it's admitting there's a problem with the quality of the students. Blasphemy to the AA folks.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

From a pro-minority point of view, what exactly did they do wrong?

You've taken her word for it and then are asking questions afterward.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

From a pro-minority point of view, what exactly did they do wrong?

You've taken her word for it and then are asking questions afterward.

I've taken her word what her opinion was of 3 individuals, yes. But where does she say anything whatsoever against latinos in general? She's unimpressed with these particular people and bemoans not having better latinos to fill her ideal quota with.

 

[ronburgundy]

Some important background.

https://marylandmocktrial.wordpress.com/get-involved/

These Mock Trial courses are not something students can just register for on their own. According to UMd website, they all require permission of the instructor, and that each student who wants to register email Graber and explain why they want to take the course.

That's makes it likely that these were NOT all students in the course, but students on an email list of those who had inquired about getting permission and/or already had permission.

There are currently 3 such courses at UMd, and according to the articles others have cited, Graber was slated to teach the 388 course, which is the most advanced 388 level and can be repeated up to 3 times.
There is a 217 Intro course called "Mock Trial 1", and a 319 intermediate course.

IOW, it is likely that nearly every single student in Grabers course had taken at least 1 and up to 5 prior mock trial courses.

His daughter said that "none have prior Mock Trial experience". That would be rather easy to verify, and if true would make it beyond reasonable for them not to admitted and told to take a different entry level course.

BTW, Graber is apparently among the best Mock Trial coaches in the country, according his record of victories in national competition.


Finally, it is too bad for the sake of comedy that Graber wasn't fired for sexual harassment.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

You've taken her word for it and then are asking questions afterward.

I've taken her word what her opinion was of 3 individuals, yes. But where does she say anything whatsoever against latinos in general? She's unimpressed with these particular people and bemoans not having better latinos to fill her ideal quota with.

Maybe she misidentified the Latinx persons. Maybe the evaluations are wrong. Maybe they are part of a bias. Why only try to guess people's social construct category of Hispanic race and then evaluate them as a group but not any others?

 

[dismal]

I've taken her word what her opinion was of 3 individuals, yes. But where does she say anything whatsoever against latinos in general? She's unimpressed with these particular people and bemoans not having better latinos to fill her ideal quota with.

Maybe she misidentified the Latinx persons. Maybe the evaluations are wrong. Maybe they are part of a bias. Why only try to guess people's social construct category of Hispanic race and then evaluate them as a group but not any others?

She didn't evaluate Latinxes as a group. She evaluated 3 specific individuals. With a clear positive bias toward including more Latinxes on the team

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Maybe she misidentified the Latinx persons. Maybe the evaluations are wrong. Maybe they are part of a bias. Why only try to guess people's social construct category of Hispanic race and then evaluate them as a group but not any others?

She didn't evaluate Latinxes as a group. She evaluated 3 specific individuals. With a clear positive bias toward including more Latinxes on the team

That's not what I wrote. The "group" to which I was referring was the group of 3, presumably but not necessarily the Latinxers in the pool of students. How do you know they were the Latinxers?

Person#1 -- alleged to be Latinx -- took critical look at their qualifications
Person#2 -- alleged to be Latinx -- took critical look at their qualifications
Person#3 -- alleged to be Latinx -- took critical look at their qualifications
Person#4 -- alleged NOT to be Latinx -- did NOT take critical look at their qualifications
Person#5 -- alleged NOT to be Latinx -- did NOT take critical look at their qualifications
Person#6 -- alleged NOT to be Latinx -- did NOT take critical look at their qualifications
Person#7 -- alleged NOT to be Latinx -- did NOT take critical look at their qualifications
...
...
Person#N -- alleged NOT to be Latinx -- did NOT take critical look at their qualifications

There is a group difference here. You claim that the intent behind taking the critical look is reverse discrimination. The young lady who was called the "mediocre" one claims that singling them out and the negative assessment of them was biased negatively, to include an evaluation of them as not having mock trial experience though for this particular course it is not a requirement. So, is the young lady only mediocre? Are the other two terrible? Is one of the others unmotivated? Are they all actually Latinx or were assumptions made because the evaluator looked at stereotyped behaviors when she wrote "obviously" to her father?

What evidence is there that her assessment was fair or unfair? The student says unfair.

 

[repoman]

Why not just "Latin". We don't say whitos and whitas, just whites. This is English it it looks silly.