Now the alt-left is going after Columbus ...

[skepticalbip]

The antifa movement is not solely interested in removing "racist monuments". They are driven to forcefully silence anyone who has contrary views to theirs. Milo Yiannopoulos can in no way be called a nazi white supremacist racist and yet that is exactly what antifa labels him. This is their "excuse" for their destruction and physical violence in their Berkeley "demonstration". Their tactic is to label anyone they disagree with politically a racist, nazi, fascist, etc. and, by such labeling, they manage to attract some "useful idiots" to go along with then. It is an attack on free speech.

That's nice. I didn't say anything about antifa, though, so I don't see what it has to do with my comment. Nor was the story in the OP related to antifa. The discussion is about statues of people from our history who did horrible things and if we should keep them or remove them, and how we should go about removing them if we do.

Fair enough, then just replace antifa with "progressive". Antifa appears to be the militant arm of the progressive's "resist" movement. They certainly both use the tactic of labeling anyone who disagrees with them as fascists, racists, etc.

 

[PyramidHead]

That's nice. I didn't say anything about antifa, though, so I don't see what it has to do with my comment. Nor was the story in the OP related to antifa. The discussion is about statues of people from our history who did horrible things and if we should keep them or remove them, and how we should go about removing them if we do.

Fair enough, then just replace antifa with "progressive".

No. I won't do that. I already said what I meant by 'progressive' and I don't have to alter it to accommodate your need to take a potshot at a political rival that has nothing to do with the thread.

 

[skepticalbip]

Fair enough, then just replace antifa with "progressive".

No. I won't do that. I already said what I meant by 'progressive' and I don't have to alter it to accommodate your need to take a potshot at a political rival that has nothing to do with the thread.

Indeed you did. You have identified the progressives as the "good guys" who are just a little too impatient and conservatives as racists.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That's nice. I didn't say anything about antifa, though, so I don't see what it has to do with my comment. Nor was the story in the OP related to antifa. The discussion is about statues of people from our history who did horrible things and if we should keep them or remove them, and how we should go about removing them if we do.

Fair enough, then just replace antifa with "progressive". Antifa appears to be the militant arm of the progressive's "resist" movement.

I'd say the "self-proclaimed" militant arm.

They certainly both use the tactic of labeling anyone who disagrees with them as fascists, racists, etc.

That is a crock.

 

[PyramidHead]

No. I won't do that. I already said what I meant by 'progressive' and I don't have to alter it to accommodate your need to take a potshot at a political rival that has nothing to do with the thread.

Indeed you did. You have identified the progressives as the "good guys" who are just a little too impatient and conservatives as racists.

Wow. No. I identified conservatives who want to conserve racism as racists. Does it really bother you so much that racist conservatives exist and are worse than people who dump paint on statues?

 

[skepticalbip]

Indeed you did. You have identified the progressives as the "good guys" who are just a little too impatient and conservatives as racists.

Wow. No. I identified conservatives who want to conserve racism as racists. Does it really bother you so much that racist conservatives exist and are worse than people who dump paint on statues?

I have seen absolutely no Republican (conservative) representative, senator, or president who has not condemned the KKK, neonazis, etc. I have seen no progressive representatives or senators who have condemned the riots, assaults, or property destruction of antifa.

 

[ZiprHead]

I have seen absolutely no Republican (conservative) representative, senator, or president who has not condemned the KKK, neonazis, etc. I have seen no progressive representatives or senators who have condemned the riots, assaults, or property destruction of antifa.

How about conservative representatives, senators and a president that pander to supporters of the KKK and neonazis?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Wow. No. I identified conservatives who want to conserve racism as racists. Does it really bother you so much that racist conservatives exist and are worse than people who dump paint on statues?

I have seen absolutely no Republican (conservative) representative, senator, or president who has not condemned the KKK, neonazis, etc.

It took the President a bit.

I have seen no progressive representatives or senators who have condemned the riots, assaults, or property destruction of antifa.

That is your problem.

 

[skepticalbip]

I have seen absolutely no Republican (conservative) representative, senator, or president who has not condemned the KKK, neonazis, etc.

It took the President a bit.

I have seen no progressive representatives or senators who have condemned the riots, assaults, or property destruction of antifa.

That is your problem.

Oh good. I would like to see such condemnation. Do you have a link?

It would be a good sign if those from both sides supported free speech and condemned violence.

 

[laughing dog]

Colombus didn't discover America, the natives before him discovered America.

If they came to America themselves, then they are hardly "native", are they. Siberian-Americans, please.

Also, Columbus discovered America for Europe. After Columbus, Europe knew that there was a hitherto unknown landmass between Asia and Europe/Africa. And that's what it means to discover something. Not necessarily that one is the absolutely first

That is not true. After Leif Ericson, Vikings (who were in Europe) new there was a landmass between Asian and Europe.

 

[Angry Floof]

I'm 30% Scandinavian. Our people discovered America for Europe. It's not our fault the rest of you were all dark ages and plague instead of exploring.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I have seen absolutely no Republican (conservative) representative, senator, or president who has not condemned the KKK, neonazis, etc. I have seen no progressive representatives or senators who have condemned the riots, assaults, or property destruction of antifa.

How about conservative representatives, senators and a president that pander to supporters of the KKK and neonazis?

I'm not sure if there are any current senators who have once had or retain links with the KKK. Trump has no links that I am aware of with the KKK and other fanatics of their ilk. If Trump has any links or someone said he did, I'm sure this would be all over the usual media.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Columbus was scum. He introduced slavery and oppression into the Americas. He was a cruel, greedy and callous bastard.

The Aztecs had slaves.

 

[PyramidHead]

Wow. No. I identified conservatives who want to conserve racism as racists. Does it really bother you so much that racist conservatives exist and are worse than people who dump paint on statues?

I have seen absolutely no Republican (conservative) representative, senator, or president who has not condemned the KKK, neonazis, etc. I have seen no progressive representatives or senators who have condemned the riots, assaults, or property destruction of antifa.

Can you stay on topic? Who is talking about Republicans, or representatives generally? Do you think that the only conservatives capable of causing harm in this country are the ones who hold public office?

 

[ronburgundy]

Indeed you did. You have identified the progressives as the "good guys" who are just a little too impatient and conservatives as racists.

Wow. No. I identified conservatives who want to conserve racism as racists. Does it really bother you so much that racist conservatives exist and are worse than people who dump paint on statues?

PyramidHead is correct. In fact, his comment made a clear distinction between being conservative and being racist, with only a subset of conservatives who do and say racist things being racists. The Confederacy was created solely to war with the US to protect slavery. Any symbol of that government and of all who fought for it against the US is inherently a pro-slavery symbol. Everyone upset that displays of these symbols erected solely to glorify them and thus glorify the fight to preserve slavery is not just a racist, but a supporter of slavery.

 

[skepticalbip]

How about conservative representatives, senators and a president that pander to supporters of the KKK and neonazis?

I'm not sure if there are any current senators who have once had or retain links with the KKK. Trump has no links that I am aware of with the KKK and other fanatics of their ilk. If he has any links, I'm sure this would be all over CNN, NYT and MNSBC etc.

Yeah, I don't know of any one in Congress who has any affiliation with the KKK since Robert Byrd (an ex-KKK exalted cyclops) died seven years ago. He is, however, still an icon for many Democrats. In her 2008 primary run, Hillary named him as her mentor and his statue still stands in the capitol building.

 

[ZiprHead]

How about conservative representatives, senators and a president that pander to supporters of the KKK and neonazis?

I'm not sure if there are any current senators who have once had or retain links with the KKK. Trump has no links that I am aware of with the KKK and other fanatics of their ilk. If Trump has any links or someone said he did, I'm sure this would be all over the usual media.

I said "pander to", not direct links. Then again, Trump's father was a member of the KKK.

 

[dismal]

I'm not sure if there are any current senators who have once had or retain links with the KKK. Trump has no links that I am aware of with the KKK and other fanatics of their ilk. If he has any links, I'm sure this would be all over CNN, NYT and MNSBC etc.

Yeah, I don't know of any one in Congress who has any affiliation with the KKK since Robert Byrd (an ex-KKK exalted cyclops) died seven years ago. He is, however, still an icon for many Democrats. In her 2008 primary run, Hillary named him as her mentor and his statue still stands in the capitol building.

If we start tearing down Robert Byrd stuff it will be the end of half the bridges and highways in West Virginia.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Columbus was scum. He introduced slavery and oppression into the Americas. He was a cruel, greedy and callous bastard.

The Aztecs had slaves.

Better get onto ANTIFA and ask them to pull down any Aztec relics.

 

[PyramidHead]

I'm not sure if there are any current senators who have once had or retain links with the KKK. Trump has no links that I am aware of with the KKK and other fanatics of their ilk. If he has any links, I'm sure this would be all over CNN, NYT and MNSBC etc.

Yeah, I don't know of any one in Congress who has any affiliation with the KKK since Robert Byrd (an ex-KKK exalted cyclops) died seven years ago. He is, however, still an icon for many Democrats. In her 2008 primary run, Hillary named him as her mentor and his statue still stands in the capitol building.

But let's not look past party and group affiliations, otherwise that would create the impression that people are not blocks of concrete that can be neatly categorized by political party.

For the 2003–2004 session, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) rated Byrd's voting record as being 100% in line with the N.A.A.C.P.'s position on the thirty-three Senate bills they evaluated. Sixteen other senators received that rating. In June 2005, Byrd proposed an additional $10,000,000 in federal funding for the Martin Luther King, Jr. National Memorial in Washington, D.C., remarking that, "With the passage of time, we have come to learn that his Dream was the American Dream, and few ever expressed it more eloquently." Upon news of his death, the NAACP released a statement praising Byrd, saying that he "became a champion for civil rights and liberties" and "came to consistently support the NAACP civil rights agenda".

Someone who was raised to be a racist and later realized the error of his upbringing is EXACTLY the kind of person we should be memorializing.