So another "chemical" attack in Syria?

[barbos]

In principle I think the bombing was justifiable, if it was only a retaliation for the chemical weapons usage and not the start of a longer campaign. If there are no repercusions for using chemical weapons, then that is basicallly accepting that chemical weapons are ok to use. And we all know that UN wouldn'd do jack shit about it.

The drawback is that US better be damn sure that it was the regime who was responsible, and not the rebels. Otherwise this creates a huge incentive to fake chemical weapons attacks in hopes to draw Americans into the fight.

Will this fix anything in Syria? No, but it might stop chemical weapons from being used. Assad has to kill his opponents in an old-fashioned way with bullets and bombs like everybody else.

This. Trump actually did something right.

Yeah, Bush did something right too, when he invaded Iraq.

 

[barbos]

I thought this article was interesting view of the gas attack and just why Assad might dare to do such a tactically meaningless attack. That part has bothered me in terms of “WTF was Assad doing it for”, it just made no sense. This article at least provides what seems to be a valid reason to risk such blowback. And there are many recent cases where tin pot dictators risked it all to remain the tin pot dictator of their private shit hole.
http://www.atimes.com/assad-use-nerve-gas/

Why? The answer is that Assad, as paranoid as he surely is, suspected that the American announcement on a change in policy against regime was an opening bid by the United States to cut a deal with the Russians on a general Syrian settlement.

Russia’s attempt to get a deal on its own has failed and its negotiating efforts stalled when both the Syrian regime and the rebels basically disowned reaching any deal.

In addition, Russian support for Kurdish autonomy in Syria angered Assad. From Assad’s point of view, he is totally hostage to the whims of the Russians and their surrogates such as Iran. He most likely sees his regime being sold out, or Syria cantonized (actually Russia’s plan), which appeared to him ever more likely if the US and Russia were colluding.
<snip>
In this light, Assad’s turn to bombing targets with sarin nerve gas was intended to demonstrate independence from both superpowers and make it nearly impossible for an engineered settlement to be imposed on his regime.

That's a fair attempt at answering a million dollar question.

 

[Horatio Parker]

From what I see, no one except Russians and their boosters think the rebel weapon cache theory has anything to it.

Experts say hundreds of kilos of poison would've been needed, likely far too much for a contraband lab. Also, if canisters were damaged, the leakage would be slight. And if they were hit directly, most of the poison would've been destroyed in the explosion. Plus, the warehouse near the impact site is empty.

Not true, random assortment of EU politicians (including former French PM I think) bought the theory that there were no investigation and that Assad had nothing to gain.
And you yourself don't sound too sure that rebel weapon cache theory is wrong.

That you address my certainty rather than my arguments makes me surer. Thanks.

 

[barbos]

Not true, random assortment of EU politicians (including former French PM I think) bought the theory that there were no investigation and that Assad had nothing to gain.
And you yourself don't sound too sure that rebel weapon cache theory is wrong.

That you address my certainty rather than my arguments makes me surer. Thanks.

Your argument was nobody except Russia questions Assad's responsibility, which is patently false.

 

[whichphilosophy]

It seems firing 59 rockets into Syria increased Trump's ratings even with McCain. It's unfortunate if bombing someone is a way to raise popularity especially when the investigation is pending. It may have been Syria but we don't know yet.

If it was NOT Syria that did the Sarin (is that proven?) attack, Trump may want to hide that to protect his image after launching those missiles.

Oh well, nature of the manchild beast...
he
I wish we had someone like Orban instead of Trump as President.

The onus is on the accuser(s) so someone has to prove that Syria did it, not the other way. However this is the US. It always acts without thinking.
Anyway for those who think Trump and Putin were having a love affair, this seems over for now. Even McCain looks like he's courting Trump now.

 

[Harry Bosch]

If it was NOT Syria that did the Sarin (is that proven?) attack, Trump may want to hide that to protect his image after launching those missiles.

Oh well, nature of the manchild beast...
he
I wish we had someone like Orban instead of Trump as President.

The onus is on the accuser(s) so someone has to prove that Syria did it, not the other way. However this is the US. It always acts without thinking.
Anyway for those who think Trump and Putin were having a love affair, this seems over for now. Even McCain looks like he's courting Trump now.

What are you talking about? You think that the rebels somehow stole an aircraft, and then bombed their own people with chemical weapons? How does that make sense?

 

[Horatio Parker]

That you address my certainty rather than my arguments makes me surer. Thanks.

Your argument was nobody except Russia questions Assad's responsibility, which is patently false.

Quibble, trivial. "Almost nobody" to appease your pedantry.

And my technical points were ignored.

- - - Updated - - -

I thought this article was interesting view of the gas attack and just why Assad might dare to do such a tactically meaningless attack. That part has bothered me in terms of “WTF was Assad doing it for”, it just made no sense. This article at least provides what seems to be a valid reason to risk such blowback. And there are many recent cases where tin pot dictators risked it all to remain the tin pot dictator of their private shit hole.
http://www.atimes.com/assad-use-nerve-gas/

That's a fair attempt at answering a million dollar question.

It makes a great deal of sense. When Tillerson said Assad could stay, it put Russia and the US on the same page wrt to forcing a settlement on Assad. That's ruined now.

 

[RavenSky]

I think Trump is also doing this bombing as this is something to gain some popularity

I agree completely.

It was the most ineffectual, but most spectacular action he could take to get his trumpsters cheering for him again, and to continue the distractions from everything else.

 

[RavenSky]

Anyway for those who think Trump and Putin were having a love affair, this seems over for now.

And on this I disagree with you, though I do think it was political theater to make it seem like Trump was acting against Putin's wishes. I am sure that Trump hates the "Putin puppet" image as much as he hates the "President Bannon" one. It is all about Trump's ego in his bombing of Syria as much as it is in everything else the jackass does.

 

[barbos]

- - - Updated - - -

I thought this article was interesting view of the gas attack and just why Assad might dare to do such a tactically meaningless attack. That part has bothered me in terms of “WTF was Assad doing it for”, it just made no sense. This article at least provides what seems to be a valid reason to risk such blowback. And there are many recent cases where tin pot dictators risked it all to remain the tin pot dictator of their private shit hole.
http://www.atimes.com/assad-use-nerve-gas/

That's a fair attempt at answering a million dollar question.

It makes a great deal of sense. When Tillerson said Assad could stay, it put Russia and the US on the same page wrt to forcing a settlement on Assad. That's ruined now.

I would not call it "great deal".
I would call it fair attempt. Problem with it is that Russia does not support Assad unconditionally and he knows it.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway for those who think Trump and Putin were having a love affair, this seems over for now.

And on this I disagree with you, though I do think it was political theater to make it seem like Trump was acting against Putin's wishes. I am sure that Trump hates the "Putin puppet" image as much as he hates the "President Bannon" one. It is all about Trump's ego in his bombing of Syria as much as it is in everything else the jackass does.

So, you suggest now that Trump, Putin and Assad colluded?

 

[RavenSky]

Anyway for those who think Trump and Putin were having a love affair, this seems over for now.

And on this I disagree with you, though I do think it was political theater to make it seem like Trump was acting against Putin's wishes. I am sure that Trump hates the "Putin puppet" image as much as he hates the "President Bannon" one. It is all about Trump's ego in his bombing of Syria as much as it is in everything else the jackass does.

So, you suggest now that Trump, Putin and Assad colluded?

No. I am suggesting that Trump took just enough action to grandstand for his trumpsters in this country while not doing anything that would seriously piss off Putin or harm Assad. I also don't think Trump has the smarts or an ability for nuanced action to come up with this plan, so I do think the plan came for others, not from Trump.

Trump took out a few very old airplanes and didn't even damage the runways enough to stop Assad from using them for even one day. Putin will replace the airplanes with new airplanes. Reportedly, Russia had advance warning of Trump's plan, and reportedly alerted Assad to move his people out of harm's way.

So no, I do not think that Trump, Putin and Assad got on a conference call with each other to "collude". I do think this entire thing was Trump administration political theater to massage the man-baby's ego and satisfy his stupid blood-thirsty trumpsters without actually accomplishing anything whatsoever in Syria, and without actually alienating Putin.

 

[laughing dog]

So, you suggest now that Trump, Putin and Assad colluded?

The US warned Russia of the attacks (http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/06/the-us-warned-the-russians-ahead-of-syria-missile-strikes-official.html). When the Syrians noticed the Russians leaving, some of them moved as well.

This attack did not physically harm Russia. Maybe it will make Assad think twice about using chemical weapons against his citizens. And the attack allows Trump to shift focus away from the investigations about the involvement of Russia in the Trump campaign.

It is a master political stroke. Whether it will actually be effective in that region is a whole other story.

 

[barbos]

Anyway for those who think Trump and Putin were having a love affair, this seems over for now.

And on this I disagree with you, though I do think it was political theater to make it seem like Trump was acting against Putin's wishes. I am sure that Trump hates the "Putin puppet" image as much as he hates the "President Bannon" one. It is all about Trump's ego in his bombing of Syria as much as it is in everything else the jackass does.

So, you suggest now that Trump, Putin and Assad colluded?

No. I am suggesting that Trump took just enough action to grandstand for his trumpsters in this country while not doing anything that would seriously piss off Putin or harm Assad. I also don't think Trump has the smarts or an ability for nuanced action to come up with this plan, so I do think the plan came for others, not from Trump.

Trump took out a few very old airplanes and didn't even damage the runways enough to stop Assad from using them for even one day. Putin will replace the airplanes with new airplanes. Reportedly, Russia had advance warning of Trump's plan, and reportedly alerted Assad to move his people out of harm's way.

So no, I do not think that Trump, Putin and Assad got on a conference call with each other to "collude". I do think this entire thing was Trump administration political theater to massage the man-baby's ego and satisfy his stupid blood-thirsty trumpsters without actually accomplishing anything whatsoever in Syria, and without actually alienating Putin.

Yeah, must be these videotapes Putin have saved us all from WW3

 

[RavenSky]

Anyway for those who think Trump and Putin were having a love affair, this seems over for now.

And on this I disagree with you, though I do think it was political theater to make it seem like Trump was acting against Putin's wishes. I am sure that Trump hates the "Putin puppet" image as much as he hates the "President Bannon" one. It is all about Trump's ego in his bombing of Syria as much as it is in everything else the jackass does.

So, you suggest now that Trump, Putin and Assad colluded?

No. I am suggesting that Trump took just enough action to grandstand for his trumpsters in this country while not doing anything that would seriously piss off Putin or harm Assad. I also don't think Trump has the smarts or an ability for nuanced action to come up with this plan, so I do think the plan came for others, not from Trump.

Trump took out a few very old airplanes and didn't even damage the runways enough to stop Assad from using them for even one day. Putin will replace the airplanes with new airplanes. Reportedly, Russia had advance warning of Trump's plan, and reportedly alerted Assad to move his people out of harm's way.

So no, I do not think that Trump, Putin and Assad got on a conference call with each other to "collude". I do think this entire thing was Trump administration political theater to massage the man-baby's ego and satisfy his stupid blood-thirsty trumpsters without actually accomplishing anything whatsoever in Syria, and without actually alienating Putin.

<snipped the snark>

I took the time to respond to you in good faith even though I knew your initial comment was not in good faith. I knew it would be a waste of my time. It won't happen again.

 

[barbos]

Anyway for those who think Trump and Putin were having a love affair, this seems over for now.

And on this I disagree with you, though I do think it was political theater to make it seem like Trump was acting against Putin's wishes. I am sure that Trump hates the "Putin puppet" image as much as he hates the "President Bannon" one. It is all about Trump's ego in his bombing of Syria as much as it is in everything else the jackass does.

So, you suggest now that Trump, Putin and Assad colluded?

No. I am suggesting that Trump took just enough action to grandstand for his trumpsters in this country while not doing anything that would seriously piss off Putin or harm Assad. I also don't think Trump has the smarts or an ability for nuanced action to come up with this plan, so I do think the plan came for others, not from Trump.

Trump took out a few very old airplanes and didn't even damage the runways enough to stop Assad from using them for even one day. Putin will replace the airplanes with new airplanes. Reportedly, Russia had advance warning of Trump's plan, and reportedly alerted Assad to move his people out of harm's way.

So no, I do not think that Trump, Putin and Assad got on a conference call with each other to "collude". I do think this entire thing was Trump administration political theater to massage the man-baby's ego and satisfy his stupid blood-thirsty trumpsters without actually accomplishing anything whatsoever in Syria, and without actually alienating Putin.

<snipped the snark>

I took the time to respond to you in good faith even though I knew your initial comment was not in good faith. I knew it would be a waste of my time. It won't happen again.

I am just tired of hearing this Trump&Putin love story, especially after it's clear that there is no such thing any more, even if there were one.
Putin does not like this bombing at all and more importantly he does not like this rather uniform faith in Assad's responsibility.
What Trump did he did for himself and his "ratings"

 

[Harry Bosch]

Anyway for those who think Trump and Putin were having a love affair, this seems over for now.

And on this I disagree with you, though I do think it was political theater to make it seem like Trump was acting against Putin's wishes. I am sure that Trump hates the "Putin puppet" image as much as he hates the "President Bannon" one. It is all about Trump's ego in his bombing of Syria as much as it is in everything else the jackass does.

So, you suggest now that Trump, Putin and Assad colluded?

No. I am suggesting that Trump took just enough action to grandstand for his trumpsters in this country while not doing anything that would seriously piss off Putin or harm Assad. I also don't think Trump has the smarts or an ability for nuanced action to come up with this plan, so I do think the plan came for others, not from Trump.

Trump took out a few very old airplanes and didn't even damage the runways enough to stop Assad from using them for even one day. Putin will replace the airplanes with new airplanes. Reportedly, Russia had advance warning of Trump's plan, and reportedly alerted Assad to move his people out of harm's way.

So no, I do not think that Trump, Putin and Assad got on a conference call with each other to "collude". I do think this entire thing was Trump administration political theater to massage the man-baby's ego and satisfy his stupid blood-thirsty trumpsters without actually accomplishing anything whatsoever in Syria, and without actually alienating Putin.

<snipped the snark>

I took the time to respond to you in good faith even though I knew your initial comment was not in good faith. I knew it would be a waste of my time. It won't happen again.

I am just tired of hearing this Trump&Putin love story, especially after it's clear that there is no such thing any more, even if there were one.
Putin does not like this bombing at all and more importantly he does not like this rather uniform faith in Assad's responsibility.
What Trump did he did for himself and his "ratings"

I will agree that the Bromance is strained right now. However, I think that Trump is doing Putin a favor. Russians can't keep propping up Assad forever. This might allow them to start pulling back while maintaining face.

 

[RavenSky]

I am just tired of hearing this Trump&Putin love story, especially after it's clear that there is no such thing any more, even if there were one.

You have never seen me say that there was any sort of "Trump & Putin love story" and you never will because I do not believe that Putin gives a flying fuck about Trump.

I do think that Putin/Russia interfered in our 2016 election, but I think he did so more to keep HRC out of office than because he wanted Trump in. I think Putin views Trump as - at most - a useful idiot.

Any "love affair" is entirely one-sided and unrequited, but I do think Trump does "love" Putin. Putin represents everything Trump wants to be and can't - partly because he has no where near the intelligence of Putin, and partly because our system of government will not allow an ineffectual oaf like Trump to ruthlessly rule like Putin does. Add to that, Putin manipulated Trump with a few well-placed ambiguous "compliments", and viola, Trump "loves" Putin.

Putin does not like this bombing at all and more importantly he does not like this rather uniform faith in Assad's responsibility.

I'm sure he doesn't. But Putin is, in my opinion, exceptionally intelligent and exceptionally calculating. I am quite sure that he has no problem with Trump's bombing in Syria; and will use it to his own full advantage. I expect that Putin will actually gain far more from this incident than Trump ever will.

What Trump did he did for himself and his "ratings"

I agree and never said otherwise. That doesn't mean Trump's administration didn't take Putin into full consideration when deciding on their specific course of action; and didn't warn Russia in advance so no Russian troops were harmed.

 

[repoman]

Trump is a piece of crap, but that does not effect the long standing interests involved in the region.

This is great video by Black Pigeon Speaks:

 

[Horatio Parker]

I would not call it "great deal".
I would call it fair attempt. Problem with it is that Russia does not support Assad unconditionally and he knows it.

That's not a problem for the theory, rather the opposite. If Russia's support were unconditional, there would be no need for Assad to drive a wedge between Russia and the US. If the two combine to force Assad to accept, say, Kurdish autonomy, that's a problem. This attack neatly derails that possibility.

And I thought Russians were the better chess players. Looks like Assad is a Mikhail Tal.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This. Trump actually did something right.

Yeah, Bush did something right too, when he invaded Iraq.

I disagree. Bush should have spanked Iraq, not invaded.