"throw capitalism at it" ad absurdum

[untermensche]

This was once said about government.

We need Kings to get anything done.

Your thinking is only a few hundred years behind the times.

Compared to your response of, "Pigs don't fly now, but maybe they could" When the FFers formed the current government they knew the issues with how people in power will react. You falsely believe that everyone will just agree with you and there will be no discord.

So you were somebody in the US in 1775 saying getting rid of the King is as likely as pigs flying.

Your type has always existed.

 

[untermensche]

WOW!! Hard to make a more insane conclusion.

Without those specific brutal groups all would have been fine for the Anarchists.

Oh, like support from USA you mean? That's always ended in workers paradise. Or France or England. Colonialist oppression you say? Never. China? Lol.

If you're going to fight a war you're going to need money from somewhere. What rich fantasy nation would support the anarchist cause?

There is always a well organised authoritarian group waiting in the wings, ready to exploit any opening. And guess what, there's always at least one rich country willing to back that group, no matter how nuts they are. History has taught us that much.

I think your naive rose tinted view of the world is dangerous. It's people like you that lead to pointless revolutions, started by people who don't understand how politics work which inevitably lead to authoritarian regimes. Nothing is more dangerous than naive idealists. Africa and South America is full of examples of this going bad.

The US is the biggest menace in the world.

Many things cannot exist because of constant US violence and interference.

Maybe it will take the collapse of the US imperialist regime.

But it is possible.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Compared to your response of, "Pigs don't fly now, but maybe they could" When the FFers formed the current government they knew the issues with how people in power will react. You falsely believe that everyone will just agree with you and there will be no discord.

So you were somebody in the US in 1775 saying getting rid of the King is as likely as pigs flying.

Your type has always existed.

But there was experience with countries breaking government ranks with other countries. They wanted to have their own government, which wasn't something out of the ordinary.

 

[untermensche]

So you were somebody in the US in 1775 saying getting rid of the King is as likely as pigs flying.

Your type has always existed.

But there was experience with countries breaking government ranks with other countries. They wanted to have their own government, which wasn't something out of the ordinary.

And their economic system was slavery and feudalism.

Which has changed.

So claiming economic systems cannot become more moral is absurd.

 

[coloradoatheist]

But there was experience with countries breaking government ranks with other countries. They wanted to have their own government, which wasn't something out of the ordinary.

And their economic system was slavery and feudalism.

Which has changed.

So claiming economic systems cannot become more moral is absurd.

And has been attempted and it failed miserable. You have no direction on how to stop that from happening again except for saying a great miracle happens.

 

[untermensche]

And their economic system was slavery and feudalism.

Which has changed.

So claiming economic systems cannot become more moral is absurd.

And has been attempted and it failed miserable. You have no direction on how to stop that from happening again except for saying a great miracle happens.

It has been attempted many times and it has been brutally attacked by the US. Especially in the Western hemisphere.

You somehow think no more moral progress is possible.

Despite the clear historical evidence to the contrary.

Your position is not even closely grounded in reality. It is a sick desire to defend economic dictatorship.

An appeal to immorality.

 

[coloradoatheist]

And has been attempted and it failed miserable. You have no direction on how to stop that from happening again except for saying a great miracle happens.

It has been attempted many times and it has been brutally attacked by the US. Especially in the Western hemisphere.

You somehow think no more moral progress is possible.

Despite the clear historical evidence to the contrary.

Your position is not even closely grounded in reality. It is a sick desire to defend economic dictatorship.

An appeal to immorality.

Both China and the Soviet Union weren't attacked by the US and those systems of implementing a workers paradise failed. All you have is one example and of course taking away property is going to result in a fight.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Oh, like support from USA you mean? That's always ended in workers paradise. Or France or England. Colonialist oppression you say? Never. China? Lol.

If you're going to fight a war you're going to need money from somewhere. What rich fantasy nation would support the anarchist cause?

There is always a well organised authoritarian group waiting in the wings, ready to exploit any opening. And guess what, there's always at least one rich country willing to back that group, no matter how nuts they are. History has taught us that much.

I think your naive rose tinted view of the world is dangerous. It's people like you that lead to pointless revolutions, started by people who don't understand how politics work which inevitably lead to authoritarian regimes. Nothing is more dangerous than naive idealists. Africa and South America is full of examples of this going bad.

The US is the biggest menace in the world.

Many things cannot exist because of constant US violence and interference.

Maybe it will take the collapse of the US imperialist regime.

But it is possible.

I agree that USA is the biggest menace in the world. But there will always be a country that's the biggest menace in the world. If USA collapses it'll be replaced by China probably. Better, or worse?

No matter what we'll have to put up with one, the biggest, imperialist regime waving their massive penis around.

The American revolution is often held up as a good example to follow for revolutionaries. Guess what, it isn't. The American revolution was a fucking fluke. An astounding piece of just good luck. An anomaly in history. The chances of pulling it off again is minimal.

What leads to liberalisation and a better life for workers is gradual change over time. Not revolution or sudden change. The Spanish republic was fucked, right from the start.

There's many countries that have had similar trajectories. Mosaddegh's Iran. He decided that Iran didn't need the support from powerful allies. Guess what, he did. The story just repeats itself endlessly. Countries aren't little islands. To quote Lenin, "everything is connected to everything else". It's a good quote

 

[coloradoatheist]

And the other issues is that because of the human rights abuses that these utopians systems tried to put in place in the past 100 years the world leading countries aren't going to let it happen again. So something has to be in place to prevent what happened.

 

[untermensche]

It has been attempted many times and it has been brutally attacked by the US. Especially in the Western hemisphere.

You somehow think no more moral progress is possible.

Despite the clear historical evidence to the contrary.

Your position is not even closely grounded in reality. It is a sick desire to defend economic dictatorship.

An appeal to immorality.

Both China and the Soviet Union weren't attacked by the US and those systems of implementing a workers paradise failed. All you have is one example and of course taking away property is going to result in a fight.

The US only attacks those who cannot defend themselves.

And China is an example of totalitarian capitalism. Immoral but not a failure.

 

[untermensche]

And the other issues is that because of the human rights abuses that these utopians systems tried to put in place in the past 100 years the world leading countries aren't going to let it happen again. So something has to be in place to prevent what happened.

Getting rid of dictators in the workplace creates a completely different kind of society and people.

But it is not utopia, just more moral.

Like how capitalism is a little more moral than slavery.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Both China and the Soviet Union weren't attacked by the US and those systems of implementing a workers paradise failed. All you have is one example and of course taking away property is going to result in a fight.

The US only attacks those who cannot defend themselves.

And China is an example of totalitarian capitalism. Immoral but not a failure.

It failed in it's communism attempts and has opened up to capitalism and is now working better. The US and the world aren't going to sit around and let a country kill all it's citizens again.

 

[untermensche]

The US only attacks those who cannot defend themselves.

And China is an example of totalitarian capitalism. Immoral but not a failure.

It failed in it's communism attempts and has opened up to capitalism and is now working better. The US and the world aren't going to sit around and let a country kill all it's citizens again.

You drift off into insanity at every turn.

Getting rid of dictators in the workplace is not killing anyone.

It is advancing human civilization. It is the only chance for human survival. Capitalism will eventually kill everything.

 

[Elixir]

And the other issues is that because of the human rights abuses that these utopians systems tried to put in place in the past 100 years the world leading countries aren't going to let it happen again. So something has to be in place to prevent what happened.

Getting rid of dictators in the workplace creates a completely different kind of society and people.

What assurance can you offer that it will be any better than what we have now? My company has a Dictator (aka a CEO). If we got rid of him, the company would immediately go belly-up and 25-30 people who want to work for us would be out of a job. How is that an improvement?

 

[coloradoatheist]

It failed in it's communism attempts and has opened up to capitalism and is now working better. The US and the world aren't going to sit around and let a country kill all it's citizens again.

You drift off into insanity at every turn.

Getting rid of dictators in the workplace is not killing anyone.

It is advancing human civilization. It is the only chance for human survival. Capitalism will eventually kill everything.

It's the issue of how to deal with people who don't believe in your utopia. Capitalism doesn't care, but these utopian version have. And it's these people who are either shot or sent to re-education camps.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Getting rid of dictators in the workplace creates a completely different kind of society and people.

What assurance can you offer that it will be any better than what we have now? My company has a Dictator (aka a CEO). If we got rid of him, the company would immediately go belly-up and 25-30 people who want to work for us would be out of a job. How is that an improvement?

The answer is that boss doesn't do anything and the workers can do everything that person does and everybody will be 1000 times happier

 

[untermensche]

Getting rid of dictators in the workplace creates a completely different kind of society and people.

What assurance can you offer that it will be any better than what we have now? My company has a Dictator (aka a CEO). If we got rid of him, the company would immediately go belly-up and 25-30 people who want to work for us would be out of a job. How is that an improvement?

This is not about destroying current arrangements instantly, which would be a disaster. It is about building a society and supporting different kinds of arrangements moving into the future.

Dictators are not needed.

Leadership and ideas are.

And as always these things will have rewards.

But nobody will be rewarded with their own dictatorship to control.

 

[untermensche]

You drift off into insanity at every turn.

Getting rid of dictators in the workplace is not killing anyone.

It is advancing human civilization. It is the only chance for human survival. Capitalism will eventually kill everything.

It's the issue of how to deal with people who don't believe in your utopia. Capitalism doesn't care, but these utopian version have. And it's these people who are either shot or sent to re-education camps.

First you point out the ignorance in calling methods to increase human morality some utopian dream.

It is as ignorant as some supporter of monarchy calling a supporter of democracy a utopian dreamer.

IGNORANT!

 

[Elixir]

The answer is that boss doesn't do anything and the workers can do everything that person does and everybody will be 1000 times happier

In our case, "the boss" has unique talents and capabilities not shared by anyone else in the Company. "Workers" cannot be trained to suddenly become experienced combat medics. Nor can they assess the structural or training requirements of a traction splint, or reliably anticipate how DHS officials in Washington DC will receive a certain proposal. ... just to name a few points.

What you are suggesting, Unter, is that the world would be better off without my Company saving any more lives or producing any more innovative life-saving techniques or equipment. All because you don't like the idea that someone knows more about something than you or "a worker" knows, and that such knowledge and capability might enable worthwhile accomplishments.

I say that is totally full of shit.

 

[coloradoatheist]

The answer is that boss doesn't do anything and the workers can do everything that person does and everybody will be 1000 times happier

In our case, "the boss" has unique talents and capabilities not shared by anyone else in the Company. "Workers" cannot be trained to suddenly become experienced combat medics. Nor can they assess the structural or training requirements of a traction splint, or reliably anticipate how DHS officials in Washington DC will receive a certain proposal. ... just to name a few points.

What you are suggesting, Unter, is that the world would be better off without my Company saving any more lives or producing any more innovative life-saving techniques or equipment. All because you don't like the idea that someone knows more about something than you or "a worker" knows, and that such knowledge and capability might enable worthwhile accomplishments.

I say that is totally full of shit.

That's unter, not me. He is the one who believes in pink unicorns and pigs flying.