Protests ignited by gasoline price hikes continue to roil Mexico

[dismal]

Four people have been killed and more than 1,500 arrested while looting, staging road blockades and marching in protests such as the weekend demonstrations in Rosarito and along the border.

The price hike, which many believe will lead to higher prices for food and household goods, is opposed by 99% of Mexicans, according to a recent poll, and has drawn the condemnation of business groups, truckers unions, leaders of the political opposition and even the Catholic Church.

http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-mexico-gas-protest-20170109-story.html

On the one hand, there are protesters who are poor people.
On the other hand, cheap gasoline will kill the planet
Then on the other hand, it's the big powerful government's job to set prices and nationalize things
Then again on the other hand, surely the government's scarce resources can be spent on better things than subsidizing gasoline

There are just too many hands it seems.

What is a good USA coastal elite leftist to do? It doesn't seem like this can be solved by calling someone a racist so the bag of tricks may be empty.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

I don't drive. I'm not coastal.

Why do you think these prices are racist?

 

[dismal]

I don't drive. I'm not coastal.

Why do you think these prices are racist?

"doesn't" is a contraction of "does and "not".

 

[Nice Squirrel]

I don't drive. I'm not coastal.

Why do you think these prices are racist?

"doesn't" is a contraction of "does and "not".

My bad, "I doesn't drive".

 

[dismal]

"doesn't" is a contraction of "does and "not".

My bad, "I doesn't drive".

But you like protesters. And the planet. And big government.

 

[Axulus]

This is a great example of implementing good policy in a politically stupid manner. Had they removed 1% of the subsidy each month over the next 20 months it would've gotten much less attention and created less anger. Additionally, it would've given people time to adapt. Whoever is responsible for crafting this 20% increase to take place overnight should be canned. One wonders how this president Nieto won with such horrible political instincts.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

My bad, "I doesn't drive".

But you like protesters. And the planet. And big government.

No. I like tacos.

- - - Updated - - -

This is a great example of implementing good policy in a politically stupid manner. Had they removed 1% of the subsidy each month over the next 20 months it would've gotten much less attention and created less anger. Additionally, it would've given people time to adapt. Whoever is responsible for crafting this 20% increase to take place overnight should be canned. One wonders how this president Nieto won with such horrible political instincts.

Agreed.

 

[dismal]

This is a great example of implementing good policy in a politically stupid manner. Had they removed 1% of the subsidy each month hardly anyone would've noticed. Additionally, it would've given people time to adapt. Whoever is responsible for crafting this 20% increase to take place overnight should be immediately fired.

It's not as simple as that. They've been rolling out deregulation in stages. Fundamentally they need to import refined products. Pemex has had a monopoly on doing it. After oil price fell, they had a period where they were charging an above market price at the pump to offset some of the lost revenue for oil price going down. Then they lowered the price, just as oil came back some so Pemex has been having to import increasing amounts at a loss. They are trying to open the country up to competition on imports, but no one will import to sell at a loss so they finally decided to float the price.

Our prices go up and down 20% in a short time from time to time because that's what commodity prices do.

 

[KeepTalking]

Four people have been killed and more than 1,500 arrested while looting, staging road blockades and marching in protests such as the weekend demonstrations in Rosarito and along the border.

The price hike, which many believe will lead to higher prices for food and household goods, is opposed by 99% of Mexicans, according to a recent poll, and has drawn the condemnation of business groups, truckers unions, leaders of the political opposition and even the Catholic Church.

http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-mexico-gas-protest-20170109-story.html

On the one hand, there are protesters who are poor people.
On the other hand, cheap gasoline will kill the planet
Then on the other hand, it's the big powerful government's job to set prices and nationalize things
Then again on the other hand, surely the government's scarce resources can be spent on better things than subsidizing gasoline

There are just too many hands it seems.

What is a good USA coastal elite leftist to do? It doesn't seem like this can be solved by calling someone a racist so the bag of tricks may be empty.

I doubt that many "good USA coastal elite leftist(s)" care, since it is a problem in Mexico, not the USA. Even if they do care, there isn't much of anything they can do, since it is a problem in Mexico, not the USA. Of course, I am from the midwest, so what do I know?

What is an evil USA Texan elite conservative to do, though? I doubt this can be solved by building a wall and having the poor protesting Mexicans pay for it, or by grabbing some women by the pussy. So, that bag of tricks may be empty as well.

 

[dismal]

But you like protesters. And the planet. And big government.

No. I like tacos.

So poor people are protesting, the planet is overheating, the government is losing popularity, but since this is Mexico all you can think about is whether there will be enough brown people to make your precious tacos, you culturally appropriating racist swine?

 

[dismal]

http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-mexico-gas-protest-20170109-story.html

On the one hand, there are protesters who are poor people.
On the other hand, cheap gasoline will kill the planet
Then on the other hand, it's the big powerful government's job to set prices and nationalize things
Then again on the other hand, surely the government's scarce resources can be spent on better things than subsidizing gasoline

There are just too many hands it seems.

What is a good USA coastal elite leftist to do? It doesn't seem like this can be solved by calling someone a racist so the bag of tricks may be empty.

I doubt that many "good USA coastal elite leftist(s)" care, since it is a problem in Mexico, not the USA. Even if they do care, there isn't much of anything they can do, since it is a problem in Mexico, not the USA. Of course, I am from the midwest, so what do I know?

Try to think of it as being like a sovereign Indian reservation where they are protesting to keeping oil in the ground. Leftists seem to be fully capable of having semi-to-non-informed opinions about that.

Except instead of trying to keep oil in the ground they want the government to subsidize it so they can use more of it.

 

[laughing dog]

Four people have been killed and more than 1,500 arrested while looting, staging road blockades and marching in protests such as the weekend demonstrations in Rosarito and along the border.

The price hike, which many believe will lead to higher prices for food and household goods, is opposed by 99% of Mexicans, according to a recent poll, and has drawn the condemnation of business groups, truckers unions, leaders of the political opposition and even the Catholic Church.

http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-mexico-gas-protest-20170109-story.html

On the one hand, there are protesters who are poor people.
On the other hand, cheap gasoline will kill the planet
Then on the other hand, it's the big powerful government's job to set prices and nationalize things
Then again on the other hand, surely the government's scarce resources can be spent on better things than subsidizing gasoline

There are just too many hands it seems.

What is a good USA coastal elite leftist to do? It doesn't seem like this can be solved by calling someone a racist so the bag of tricks may be empty.[

Absolutely nothing because Mexico is not part of the USA. Apparently, the bag of tricks of good USA conservatives is also empty.

 

[fast]

This is a great example of implementing good policy in a politically stupid manner. Had they removed 1% of the subsidy each month hardly anyone would've noticed. Additionally, it would've given people time to adapt. Whoever is responsible for crafting this 20% increase to take place overnight should be immediately fired.

It's not as simple as that. They've been rolling out deregulation in stages. Fundamentally they need to import refined products. Pemex has had a monopoly on doing it. After oil price fell, they had a period where they were charging an above market price at the pump to offset some of the lost revenue for oil price going down. Then they lowered the price, just as oil came back some so Pemex has been having to import increasing amounts at a loss. They are trying to open the country up to competition on imports, but no one will import to sell at a loss so they finally decided to float the price.

Our prices go up and down 20% in a short time from time to time because that's what commodity prices do.

If there is high volitity yet a system in place to temper that volitity and people get used to it, then when a major circumstance is on the horizon that will negate the system in place to temper that volitity, upcoming decisions should be publicly made in advance to alleviate the anger fueling the protests. It's like the protesters are angry but angry for the wrong reason because had they been educated on the dynamics of the volitity, their anger would less likely stem from the price hike and instead the lack of advanced notice.

 

[KeepTalking]

I doubt that many "good USA coastal elite leftist(s)" care, since it is a problem in Mexico, not the USA. Even if they do care, there isn't much of anything they can do, since it is a problem in Mexico, not the USA. Of course, I am from the midwest, so what do I know?

Try to think of it as being like a sovereign Indian reservation where they are protesting to keeping oil in the ground. Leftists seem to be fully capable of having semi-to-non-informed opinions about that.

You mean Indian reservations that are wholly contained within the USA, exist only at the discretion of the US government, and are reliant upon the USA for their continued existence? I tried to think of it like that, but then realized that Mexico is nothing like an Indian reservation in the USA.

Except instead of trying to keep oil in the ground they want the government to subsidize it so they can use more of it.

So, a conservative wet dream, rather than an issue of concern for liberals. Better get to explaining how you are going to resolve the issue by building a wall, and grabbing some pussies.

 

[dismal]

You mean Indian reservations that are wholly contained within the USA, exist only at the discretion of the US government, and are reliant upon the USA for their continued existence? I tried to think of it like that, but then realized that Mexico is nothing like an Indian reservation in the USA.

Yes, that is the thing to focus on here. When the planet is overheating.

 

[SimpleDon]

Four people have been killed and more than 1,500 arrested while looting, staging road blockades and marching in protests such as the weekend demonstrations in Rosarito and along the border.

The price hike, which many believe will lead to higher prices for food and household goods, is opposed by 99% of Mexicans, according to a recent poll, and has drawn the condemnation of business groups, truckers unions, leaders of the political opposition and even the Catholic Church.

http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-mexico-gas-protest-20170109-story.html

On the one hand, there are protesters who are poor people.
On the other hand, cheap gasoline will kill the planet
Then on the other hand, it's the big powerful government's job to set prices and nationalize things
Then again on the other hand, surely the government's scarce resources can be spent on better things than subsidizing gasoline

There are just too many hands it seems.

What is a good USA coastal elite leftist to do? It doesn't seem like this can be solved by calling someone a racist so the bag of tricks may be empty.

I don't especially care how a a good USA coastal elite leftist parses their thinking on this. I have one staying with me, my brother from Seattle. I am growing tired of hearing his views on everything Trump.

You are correct, It is ridiculous for a government to try to do what the market can do better. The market and the pursuit of profit is much better at handling pricing and distributing commodities like this.

It is almost as ridiculous as believing that the markets can handle the things that governments can do better, endeavors were the pursuit of profits just piles on unneeded costs and doesn't produce desirable outcomes, like health care or education or jurisprudence. Or idiotically declaring that government should be run like a business or that businessmen should run the government. Government exists to handle the complex tasks that the simplistic market mechanism can't handle.

 

[KeepTalking]

You mean Indian reservations that are wholly contained within the USA, exist only at the discretion of the US government, and are reliant upon the USA for their continued existence? I tried to think of it like that, but then realized that Mexico is nothing like an Indian reservation in the USA.

Yes, that is the thing to focus on here. When the planet is overheating.

It isn't so much focusing on something as much as acknowledging that something is a fact. Mexico is not like an Indian reservation. Mexico is not a part of the USA. There is very little a USA liberal of any stripe can do to cause change in Mexico. It is conservatives, as far as I can see, who think they can solve any problem with regard to Mexico by building a wall, and making Mexico pay for it. That probably wont work in this situation, but please feel free to attempt to mount a convincing case based upon conservative principles.

 

[Derec]

You mean Indian reservations that are wholly contained within the USA, exist only at the discretion of the US government, and are reliant upon the USA for their continued existence? I tried to think of it like that, but then realized that Mexico is nothing like an Indian reservation in the USA.

So you are agreeing with me that so-called "Indian sovereignty" is a sham and that it should have ended with the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924?

And besides, DAPL does not even go through the Standing Rock reservation and the main protest camp is also outside it, on Corps of Engineers land actually. Why is it ok for thousands of lefty radicals to occupy federal land (and polluting it with both tons of human waste and assorted other crap) when there was so much outcry when a few dozen right-wing yahoos occupied a federal wildlife refuge?

 

[dismal]

Mexico is not like an Indian reservation.

And therefore [fill in something that has anything to do with topic here]?

 

[KeepTalking]

Mexico is not like an Indian reservation.

And therefore [fill in something that has anything to do with topic here]?

And therefore dismal bringing them up in comparison to Mexico, in a topic he started about Mexico, is a case of dismal derailing his own topic.