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More totalitarianism at US colleges

Without knowing if there are important missing details, it seems like the UH Senate is over-reacting. The VP is elected by the student body, and the VP should enjoy the same freedom of political speech as anyone else.

Whether this is an example of "totalitarianism", over-zealousness, assholishness, dumbness or the inexperience of youth is a matter of opinion, but I think it is bit over the top to refer to this as "totalitarianism" or representative of what goes on in US higher education on a nationwide level.
 
Without knowing if there are important missing details, it seems like the UH Senate is over-reacting. The VP is elected by the student body, and the VP should enjoy the same freedom of political speech as anyone else.

Whether this is an example of "totalitarianism", over-zealousness, assholishness, dumbness or the inexperience of youth is a matter of opinion, but I think it is bit over the top to refer to this as "totalitarianism" or representative of what goes on in US higher education on a nationwide level.

There may well be missing details as this is a typical article by one publication and copied by others. However, based on what is available the person does not appear to have said anything remotely offensive. In a free society, we hope that universities encourage freedom of speech and do not try to enforce political correctness using semantics and not facts for people to take further into their careers.

There is nothing wrong with BLM as a civil rights movement and as I understand its leaders were quick to condemn the police shootings.

http://www.nytimes.com/live/police-...ge/black-lives-matter-leader-calls-for-peace/
 
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Without knowing if there are important missing details, it seems like the UH Senate is over-reacting. The VP is elected by the student body, and the VP should enjoy the same freedom of political speech as anyone else.

Whether this is an example of "totalitarianism", over-zealousness, assholishness, dumbness or the inexperience of youth is a matter of opinion, but I think it is bit over the top to refer to this as "totalitarianism" or representative of what goes on in US higher education on a nationwide level.

There may well be missing details as this is a typical article by one publication and copied by others. However, based on what is available the person does not appear to have said anything remotely offensive. In a free society, we hope that universities encourage freedom of speech and do not try to enforce political correctness using semantics and not facts for people to take further into their careers.
There is nothing in the article that even suggests that the university is taking any action whatsoever.
 
There may well be missing details as this is a typical article by one publication and copied by others. However, based on what is available the person does not appear to have said anything remotely offensive. In a free society, we hope that universities encourage freedom of speech and do not try to enforce political correctness using semantics and not facts for people to take further into their careers.
There is nothing in the article that even suggests that the university is taking any action whatsoever.

They were still deciding whether this would be a slap on the Wrist or something as much as a full blown impeachment

However she was suspended for 50 days per yesterday's news. I think the reasoning is not rational. The letter says that her first amendment rights do not protect a person from discipline (as in this instance). What happened to student debating and interaction?
http://abc13.com/education/uh-student-leader-sanctioned-for-black-lives-matter-comments/1449956/
 
Without knowing if there are important missing details, it seems like the UH Senate is over-reacting. The VP is elected by the student body, and the VP should enjoy the same freedom of political speech as anyone else.

Whether this is an example of "totalitarianism", over-zealousness, assholishness, dumbness or the inexperience of youth is a matter of opinion, but I think it is bit over the top to refer to this as "totalitarianism" or representative of what goes on in US higher education on a nationwide level.

There may well be missing details as this is a typical article by one publication and copied by others. However, based on what is available the person does not appear to have said anything remotely offensive. In a free society, we hope that universities encourage freedom of speech and do not try to enforce political correctness using semantics and not facts for people to take further into their careers.

There is nothing wrong with BLM as a civil rights movement and as I understand its leaders were quick to condemn the police shootings.

http://www.nytimes.com/live/police-...ge/black-lives-matter-leader-calls-for-peace/

Political correctness is like most things in these times of heightened sensitivity to feelings and the elevation of feelings over facts to guide our actions. PC is acceptable to the degree that it is good manners and when it is supported by facts. It isn't acceptable when it is not within the bounds of just good manners, i.e., there is no reason to use names that offend people. And PC is unacceptable when it is based on feelings, emotions, beliefs that are contrary to fact.

I was appalled watching the two political conventions at how much was based on feelings, emotions, illogic, fantasies, transcendentalism, etc. and how little if anything was based on fact, logic, reality, empiricism, etc.* I see the same thing in these pages, in this thread. I was an engineer, a corporate executive, a Naval officer, a pilot and always a third generation atheist. These are not endeavors that lead one to putting a lot of stock into feelings, so I might be hypersensitive to this kind of thinking. But I can't but think that decisions based on emotions are doomed to fail.

The BLM people are protesting against the realities of their world. They are much more likely to be shot and killed by the police. That is true. In my opinion, it is not even that the police are racists who hate black people, it is because black people are more likely to pose a threat to the police because black people are disproportionately more criminal than others, because 90% of felons live below the poverty line and black people are two to three times, depending where you draw the line, more likely to be poor.

And why are they more likely to be poor? Not because of genetics, not because of choice, not because they are lazy, all positions put forward repeatedly in posts and threads here, but because of the lingering effects of racism on their forebearers and the residual racism that still exists.

Contrast this with the feelings of the proponents of reverse racism, what would more properly be called inverse racism. That black people now hold a privileged social position. That black people have climbed over white people now. This a feeling, not a fact and it assumes many falsehoods. That the civil rights laws eliminated racism against black people by introducing equal or even harsher legal racism against white people. That the economy is zero sum. That others having money means that you have less money. That there are only so many jobs, that there is only so much work to be done. The idea that somehow the market is a natural one. That the market determines a natural value of labor separate from any monetary value, that the economics gods punish those economies in which people are paid more than this never defined natural value.

This is what racism has always been used for. To divide the poor against one another so that they don't realize who is really taking advantage of them. And it is the rich who promote this because the rich believe that in order to maximize their own earnings that a large number of people must be in poverty. Because of the economic fallacy, once again, that the economy is zero sum based.


* And I don't want to give the impression that both sides do it equally, that I am promoting a false equivalency. The Republicans are much more guilty of this type of not thinking, to the point that they seemingly have completely abandoned talking about the world as it is.
 
There is nothing in the article that even suggests that the university is taking any action whatsoever.

They were still deciding whether this would be a slap on the Wrist or something as much as a full blown impeachment

However she was suspended for 50 days per yesterday's news. I think the reasoning is not rational. The letter says that her first amendment rights do not protect a person from discipline (as in this instance). What happened to student debating and interaction?
http://abc13.com/education/uh-student-leader-sanctioned-for-black-lives-matter-comments/1449956/

I think that's an interesting point, but as you should know the counterpoint is that the consequences are "job discipline." In this case, the constituents are the employers. They've called for consequences through petitions and so forth like participatory democracy. I think that's a bit different than, say if a Republican congressperson, representing his district, has an opinion and expresses it that is consistent with that region of represented persons.
 
There is nothing in the article that even suggests that the university is taking any action whatsoever.

They were still deciding whether this would be a slap on the Wrist or something as much as a full blown impeachment

However she was suspended for 50 days per yesterday's news. I think the reasoning is not rational. The letter says that her first amendment rights do not protect a person from discipline (as in this instance). What happened to student debating and interaction?
http://abc13.com/education/uh-student-leader-sanctioned-for-black-lives-matter-comments/1449956/
The UH Student Government association is NOT the University of Houston. That is a very important distinction. The University of Houston is not taking any action. Students are doing this to one of their own.

I happen to think the Senate is over-reacting, but that is a separate issue.
 
They were still deciding whether this would be a slap on the Wrist or something as much as a full blown impeachment

However she was suspended for 50 days per yesterday's news. I think the reasoning is not rational. The letter says that her first amendment rights do not protect a person from discipline (as in this instance). What happened to student debating and interaction?
http://abc13.com/education/uh-student-leader-sanctioned-for-black-lives-matter-comments/1449956/

I think that's an interesting point, but as you should know the counterpoint is that the consequences are "job discipline." In this case, the constituents are the employers. They've called for consequences through petitions and so forth like participatory democracy. I think that's a bit different than, say if a Republican congressperson, representing his district, has an opinion and expresses it that is consistent with that region of represented persons.

In this case it was determining something to be racist when there is nothing to suggest it is. It effectively means one has to predict semantics.
 
They were still deciding whether this would be a slap on the Wrist or something as much as a full blown impeachment

However she was suspended for 50 days per yesterday's news. I think the reasoning is not rational. The letter says that her first amendment rights do not protect a person from discipline (as in this instance). What happened to student debating and interaction?
http://abc13.com/education/uh-student-leader-sanctioned-for-black-lives-matter-comments/1449956/
The UH Student Government association is NOT the University of Houston. That is a very important distinction. The University of Houston is not taking any action. Students are doing this to one of their own.

I happen to think the Senate is over-reacting, but that is a separate issue.

This does relate to the Student body of course, where as you say this seems to be an over-reaction ,but those concerned may possibly mature as they get older.
 
The UH Student Government association is NOT the University of Houston.

How sure are you of that?
SGAs are normally separate entities from the University administration. For example, when the degrees students earn are not conferred upon them by the SGA but the University. Potential students do not apply for admission to the SGA but the University. Decisions on admissions are not made by SGAs but by the University.

One can peruse the UH and the UHSGA websites, and there is no indication that the UHSGA is the UH.
 
How sure are you of that?
SGAs are normally separate entities from the University administration. For example, when the degrees students earn are not conferred upon them by the SGA but the University. Potential students do not apply for admission to the SGA but the University. Decisions on admissions are not made by SGAs but by the University.

None of that has anything to do with anything, of course.

One can peruse the UH and the UHSGA websites, and there is no indication that the UHSGA is the UH.

There is no UHSGA website. There are pages about the SGA on the UH website.
 
SGAs are normally separate entities from the University administration. For example, when the degrees students earn are not conferred upon them by the SGA but the University. Potential students do not apply for admission to the SGA but the University. Decisions on admissions are not made by SGAs but by the University.

None of that has anything to do with anything, of course.
Yes, it does. The UH and the UHSGA are not the same. This flap is about the decisions and actions of the UHSGA not the UH. That is a distinction with a difference.

There is no UHSGA website. There are pages about the SGA on the UH website.
My mistake. Thank you for pointing out a distinction without a difference.
 
The UH and the UHSGA are not the same. This flap is about the decisions and actions of the UHSGA not the UH. That is a distinction with a difference.

A distinction you've yet to prove.

There is no UHSGA website. There are pages about the SGA on the UH website.
My mistake. Thank you for pointing out a distinction without a difference.

The name of the organization is linked to UH. It operates on UH property in connection with other UH staff. The "website" is housed on the UH servers and its URL is identical in form to those used for other departments of the university. From just considering the evidence made available in this thread so far, any reasonable person would conclude that the UHSGA is an arm of the University of Houston - that it "is" the University - whose staff just happens to be elected by the student body instead of hired or appointed by university officials.

Now I've actually done some research here and there may be evidence that also favors an alternative conclusion. You might want to try presenting some of that rather than putting your ignorance on full display by blabbering on about how they have separate websites - which they don't.
 
A distinction you've yet to prove.
You confuse "Prove" with "I understand". But whatever. You get it or you don't.
The name of the organization is linked to UH. It operates on UH property in connection with other UH staff. The "website" is housed on the UH servers and its URL is identical in form to those used for other departments of the university. From just considering the evidence made available in this thread so far, any reasonable person would conclude that the UHSGA is an arm of the University of Houston - that it "is" the University - whose staff just happens to be elected by the student body instead of hired or appointed by university officials.
Any reasonable person with a functioning brain and a bit of actual investigation would soon realize that student gov't is not an arm of an administration. Any more than football players on the university football team are an arm of the administration.
Now I've actually done some research here and there may be evidence that also favors an alternative conclusion. You might want to try presenting some of that rather than putting your ignorance on full display by blabbering on about how they have separate websites - which they don't.
Present your alternative conclusion and "evidence" in an attempt to demonstrate that you actually know something about higher education.
 
Any reasonable person with a functioning brain and a bit of actual investigation would soon realize that student gov't is not an arm of an administration.


I didn't say "administration". And there's a reason for that.

Present your alternative conclusion and "evidence" in an attempt to demonstrate that you actually know something about higher education.

The "alternative conclusion" to the one I've presented is the argument you're making. So, no, I'm not going to go searching for the evidence to back up your position.
 
I didn't say "administration". And there's a reason for that.
No one claimed you did not have a "reason'>

The "alternative conclusion" to the one I've presented is the argument you're making. So, no, I'm not going to go searching for the evidence to back up your position.
Thank you for proving my points. I accept your apology.
 
No one claimed you did not have a "reason'>

The "alternative conclusion" to the one I've presented is the argument you're making. So, no, I'm not going to go searching for the evidence to back up your position.
Thank you for proving my points. I accept your apology.

Your bot needs better programming. It's getting too obvious.

:rolleyes:
 
JonA said:
...it "is" the University - whose staff just happens to be elected by the student body instead of hired or appointed by university officials.

27447394.jpg


If you actually meant that "is" means "is [not]" then you'd be right but of course you're going to have to prove what you actually wrote since the student government is elected from the student body by the students.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
 
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No one claimed you did not have a "reason'>

Thank you for proving my points. I accept your apology.

Your bot needs better programming. It's getting too obvious.

This particular tangent started when you asked how sure I was of my claim that “The UH Student Government association is NOT the University of Houston.” I subsequently gave my reasons. It really doesn’t matter whether or not you accept them, since they did answer your question.

Outside of the minor contribution of showing that I used the term "Web site" instead of "Web page", your contributions have indicated a lack of knowledge about how universities function.
 
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