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Great news! Over 20 dead in Orlando Night Club!

 
 
 
Huffington Post

At the funeral of another victim, Christopher Leinonen, at a church close to the center of Orlando, a handful of protesters from the Kansas-based anti-gay Westboro Baptist Church stood silently for about 45 minutes. They were blocked from view of those attending the funeral by about 200 counter-protesters, some holding rainbow screens, who cheered when the Westboro members left.

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They came, did nothing much and left.

Unfortunatley two police officers were injured when a driver of a car ran into them as they attempted to block traffic to let a funeral procession pass by.
 
Is this good or bad, the decision to not release all of the audio. Not sure...

LORETTA LYNCH: What we're announcing tomorrow is that the FBI is releasing a partial transcript of the killer's calls with law enforcement, from inside the club. These are the calls with the Orlando PD negotiating team, who he was, where he was... that will be coming out tomorrow and I'll be headed to Orlando on Tuesday.

CHUCK TODD: Including the hostage negotiation part of this?

LYNCH: Yes, it will be primarily a partial transcript of his calls with the hostage negotiators.

CHUCK TODD: You say partial, what's being left out?

LYNCH: What we're not going to do is further proclaim this man's pledges of alleigance to terrorist groups, and further his propaganda.

CHUCK TODD: We're not going to hear him talk about those things?

LYNCH: We will hear him talk about some of those things, but we are not going to hear him make his assertions of allegiance and that. It will not be audio, it will be a printed transcript. But it will begin to capture the back and forth between him and the negotiators, we're trying to get as much information about this investigation out as possible. As you know, because the killer is dead, we have a bit more leeway there and we will be producing that information tomorrow.
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The same people saying bad, maybe would also say bad if all release. Ah, hypocrisy...
 
Did we just get "Innocence of the Muslims"? Meaning the Feds did a smokescreen of the real reason for the attack?
 
repoman said:
Did we just get "Innocence of the Muslims"? Meaning the Feds did a smokescreen of the real reason for the attack?
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I think it is a bit deeper than that.

ISIS (or ISIL, or whatever you want to call them) is currently trying to expand their perceived influence by claiming every "lone wolf" attack as their own. It makes them seem much more powerful than they actually are if western media paints attacks like this as ISIS. Was the "real reason" for this attack ISIS? Maybe, but probably not. As such, we shouldn't give them credit.

We're also engaged in a struggle for Islam to a certain extent. If we let this attack be characterized as the result of Islam or the self-proclaimed "Islamic State," then we allow this terrorist outfit to control the narrative. From a purely practical standpoint, we need to make the case (and it is a valid case) that this attack isn't representative of Islam as a whole. This is one guy (and his wife, apparently) who was inspired by an extremist outfit which does not even begin to speak for the billion-plus Muslims worldwide.
 
Ford said:
I think it is a bit deeper than that.
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It's another way to say that "Islam has nothing to do with Islam".

We're also engaged in a struggle for Islam to a certain extent. If we let this attack be characterized as the result of Islam or the self-proclaimed "Islamic State," then we allow this terrorist outfit to control the narrative. From a purely practical standpoint, we need to make the case (and it is a valid case) that this attack isn't representative of Islam as a whole. This is one guy (and his wife, apparently) who was inspired by an extremist outfit which does not even begin to speak for the billion-plus Muslims worldwide.
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The problem is that it becomes a feeble apology for Islam. Like Obama claiming that Islamic State is not islamic or saying that the "future should not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam" or David Cameron saying that "it is mainstream Britain which needs to integrate more with the British Asian [i.e. mostly Muslim Pakistani] way of life, not the other way around". Or the Swedish foreign minister, Margot Wallström, saying that Sharia has nothing to do with Islam.

It's an upside down world!
 
Would it have saved many lives and the nation of India if the assassination of Gandhi had been falsely spun into a non religious reason? Maybe.

I was watching Douglas Murray talking about the murder of Jo Cox and he talked about not wanting to yield to an "assassin's veto" of the Brexit. However, in his case Murray wants Brexit for good reasons.
 
Derec said:
It's another way to say that "Islam has nothing to do with Islam".
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Like your friends in the Klan saying they're just fighting for white rights and aren't really virulent racists?
 
repoman said:
Did we just get "Innocence of the Muslims"? Meaning the Feds did a smokescreen of the real reason for the attack?
Click to expand...
Or maybe we're just not going to play more recruiting footage for ISIS. They're getting enough of that from Trump. Or maybe we're not going to play the sounds of a man trying to use his religion as an excuse for the fact that he's a miserable excuse for a human being.

The transcript should be enough.
 
Tristan Scott said:
repoman said:
Did we just get "Innocence of the Muslims"? Meaning the Feds did a smokescreen of the real reason for the attack?
Click to expand...
Or maybe we're just not going to play more recruiting footage for ISIS. They're getting enough of that from Trump. Or maybe we're not going to play the sounds of a man trying to use his religion as an excuse for the fact that he's a miserable excuse for a human being.
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His religion made him a miserable excuse for a human being.

Would Mateen have taken the same actions if Islam did not condemn homosexuality? Not a chance.
 
Tristan Scott said:
repoman said:
Did we just get "Innocence of the Muslims"? Meaning the Feds did a smokescreen of the real reason for the attack?
Click to expand...
Or maybe we're just not going to play more recruiting footage for ISIS. They're getting enough of that from Trump. Or maybe we're not going to play the sounds of a man trying to use his religion as an excuse for the fact that he's a miserable excuse for a human being.

The transcript should be enough.
Click to expand...

If this had been a closeted gay white guy who had been part of a white nationalist (and anti-gay) group and he opened fire on this gay club having a mostly latino night....

Would Loretta Lynch be holding back most of the audio of the shooter with the police?
 
Metaphor said:
Would Mateen have taken the same actions if Islam did not condemn homosexuality? Not a chance.
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How do you know this? Are you saying the root cause of all homophobia is because of religion? Or are you just saying that it is the root cause of homophobia among Muslims? There is no homophobia among atheists?
 
repoman said:
Tristan Scott said:
Or maybe we're just not going to play more recruiting footage for ISIS. They're getting enough of that from Trump. Or maybe we're not going to play the sounds of a man trying to use his religion as an excuse for the fact that he's a miserable excuse for a human being.

The transcript should be enough.
Click to expand...

If this had been a closeted gay white guy who had been part of a white nationalist (and anti-gay) group and he opened fire on this gay club having a mostly latino night....

Would Loretta Lynch be holding back most of the audio of the shooter with the police?
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It now looks like they held back a certain Jihadist group's name he was mentioning because of the ongoing investigation. They didn't withhold the names of other groups he mentioned like the Islamic State. So much for your conspiracy theory.
 
Tristan Scott said:
Metaphor said:
Would Mateen have taken the same actions if Islam did not condemn homosexuality? Not a chance.
Click to expand...

How do you know this? Are you saying the root cause of all homophobia is because of religion? Or are you just saying that it is the root cause of homophobia among Muslims? There is no homophobia among atheists?
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Unreasonable prejudice against harmless behaviour would exist with or without religion. There was a time when left-handed schoolchildren were discouraged from writing with their left hand, and I don't recall proscriptions against left-handedness in the Bible (although possibly there are: it's really long, boring, and inconsistent).

But nobody ever threw a left-hander off a building, or hanged one, or stoned one, or sent them to prison with hard labour just because they were left-handed. Religion is not necessary for homophobia, but it does seem to be necessary for the kind of homophobia that would lead to governments, mobs, and individuals to kill homosexuals just for being homosexuals.

Children have to be taught hate, and nothing teaches hate better than religion. Some atheists might hate homosexuals as a remainder of a religious culture, or they have some incoherent concept about it being 'unnatural', or some other nonsense reason, but if none of the holy books had described homosexuality as an affront to God, and if none of the holy books had prescribed death for it, no, Omar Mateen would not have been taught to hate himself and all homosexuals so much that he decided to kill 50 of us.
 
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