Upper Education: Signalling or Learning

[untermensche]

It's about signaling.

That you are an unthinking useful tool and willing to take abuse from idiots.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's mostly about learning but it's also about providing a signal of that knowledge. It's much harder to show your competence without a degree.

It's about signaling.

That you are an unthinking useful tool and willing to take abuse from idiots.

Thus showing that you don't understand that you need training for an awful lot of jobs.

 

[untermensche]

It's mostly about learning but it's also about providing a signal of that knowledge. It's much harder to show your competence without a degree.

It's about signaling.

That you are an unthinking useful tool and willing to take abuse from idiots.

Thus showing that you don't understand that you need training for an awful lot of jobs.

The most important training one needs in a top down system like capitalism is how to suck up and how to follow orders.

That's what gets you ahead.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's mostly about learning but it's also about providing a signal of that knowledge. It's much harder to show your competence without a degree.



Thus showing that you don't understand that you need training for an awful lot of jobs.

The most important training one needs in a top down system like capitalism is how to suck up and how to follow orders.

That's what gets you ahead.

You continue to show your lack of knowledge as to what high skill professions actually require.

 

[coloradoatheist]

It's mostly about learning but it's also about providing a signal of that knowledge. It's much harder to show your competence without a degree.



Thus showing that you don't understand that you need training for an awful lot of jobs.

The most important training one needs in a top down system like capitalism is how to suck up and how to follow orders.

That's what gets you ahead.

Since you believe that for upper education, are you against Sanders plan to spend more on Upper education just so more people can learn how to say, "Yes sir"?

 

[untermensche]

The most important training one needs in a top down system like capitalism is how to suck up and how to follow orders.

That's what gets you ahead.

Since you believe that for upper education, are you against Sanders plan to spend more on Upper education just so more people can learn how to say, "Yes sir"?

There are more issues than the fact that higher education is mainly a testing ground of obsequiousness.

It is also a ticket to get a job.

And since more than rich people need jobs government assistance merely attempts to level the playing field.

It is a crime when young people are saddled with huge debt simply to play the game.

 

[laughing dog]

Thus showing that you don't understand that you need training for an awful lot of jobs.

Animals and muscles are trained: people are educated.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Since you believe that for upper education, are you against Sanders plan to spend more on Upper education just so more people can learn how to say, "Yes sir"?

There are more issues than the fact that higher education is mainly a testing ground of obsequiousness.

It is also a ticket to get a job.

And since more than rich people need jobs government assistance merely attempts to level the playing field.

It is a crime when young people are saddled with huge debt simply to play the game.

You are still showing that you don't understand the skills needed.

Or would you be ok with a surgeon who learned by playing "Operation"?

 

[untermensche]

There are more issues than the fact that higher education is mainly a testing ground of obsequiousness.

It is also a ticket to get a job.

And since more than rich people need jobs government assistance merely attempts to level the playing field.

It is a crime when young people are saddled with huge debt simply to play the game.

You are still showing that you don't understand the skills needed.

Or would you be ok with a surgeon who learned by playing "Operation"?

I'm not talking about surgeons.

I'm talking about most "managers" in top down structures.

Their skill set consists in faithfully following orders.

They are not leaders, they are petty dictators.

 

[barbos]

Here is a debate about whether college is a signal or providing useful knowledge. Both sides make some decent on their side

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/03/econ-duel-is-education-signaling-or-skill-building.html

Both guys are right, it's just they are talking about different aspects of the problem.
If we exclude DeWry, Trump, other busyness schools then yes, people, do learn in "upper" education, but there is too much signaling. There were actual studies which have shown your success does in fact depends on superficial stuff, and it is true across all professions, not just scams like lawyers, where I was once told there is strict division between schools with law-firm partner prospects and with no such prospects.

But I am surprised that "signal" guy is admitting that, considering he is teaching. I guess he feels secure enough to be honest about it.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Here is a debate about whether college is a signal or providing useful knowledge. Both sides make some decent on their side

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/03/econ-duel-is-education-signaling-or-skill-building.html

Both guys are right, it's just they are talking about different aspects of the problem.
If we exclude DeWry, Trump, other busyness schools then yes, people, do learn in "upper" education, but there is too much signaling. There were actual studies which have shown your success does in fact depends on superficial stuff, and it is true across all professions, not just scams like lawyers, where I was once told there is strict division between schools with law-firm partner prospects and with no such prospects.

But I am surprised that "signal" guy is admitting that, considering he is teaching. I guess he feels secure enough to be honest about it.

Wanted to ask about something, did you mean DeVry? And why do you think there is no learning there compared to other schools? Have they tested before and after and both sets of schools to find out how much is learned. What if we find out that same learning happens whether going to a 4 year, 2 year or MOOC?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You are still showing that you don't understand the skills needed.

Or would you be ok with a surgeon who learned by playing "Operation"?

I'm not talking about surgeons.

I'm talking about most "managers" in top down structures.

Their skill set consists in faithfully following orders.

They are not leaders, they are petty dictators.

You so badly fail to understand what a manager does that you can't even see that there are skills involved.

Consider the best manager I have ever known--if you're doing your job properly chances are the only time you'll hear from him is either soliciting ideas on how to improve the workflow or telling you about changes to improve the workflow.

Also, most things you go to college for aren't "manager".

 

[coloradoatheist]

Wrong thread

 

[coloradoatheist]

I'm not talking about surgeons.

I'm talking about most "managers" in top down structures.

Their skill set consists in faithfully following orders.

They are not leaders, they are petty dictators.

You so badly fail to understand what a manager does that you can't even see that there are skills involved.

Consider the best manager I have ever known--if you're doing your job properly chances are the only time you'll hear from him is either soliciting ideas on how to improve the workflow or telling you about changes to improve the workflow.

Also, most things you go to college for aren't "manager".

However the argument is whether those skills are really learned in a 4 year degree or are they learned on the job and a lot was wasted in the 4 years.

 

[ksen]

It's mostly about learning but it's also about providing a signal of that knowledge. It's much harder to show your competence without a degree.



Thus showing that you don't understand that you need training for an awful lot of jobs.

The most important training one needs in a top down system like capitalism is how to suck up and how to follow orders.

That's what gets you ahead.

So basically an MBA.

 

[untermensche]

The most important training one needs in a top down system like capitalism is how to suck up and how to follow orders.

That's what gets you ahead.

So basically an MBA.

An MBA will teach you some things about the real world.

But those who do well in MBA programs are not necessarily the best leaders. The programs have no connection to leadership. They mainly test the ability to follow.

Which is what corporations want.

 

[ksen]

way to explain the joke

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You so badly fail to understand what a manager does that you can't even see that there are skills involved.

Consider the best manager I have ever known--if you're doing your job properly chances are the only time you'll hear from him is either soliciting ideas on how to improve the workflow or telling you about changes to improve the workflow.

Also, most things you go to college for aren't "manager".

However the argument is whether those skills are really learned in a 4 year degree or are they learned on the job and a lot was wasted in the 4 years.

I've had to deal with a few programmers who don't have that college education. Not fun. (Although it's quite possible for a programmer to get the needed knowledge without college.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So basically an MBA.

An MBA will teach you some things about the real world.

But those who do well in MBA programs are not necessarily the best leaders. The programs have no connection to leadership. They mainly test the ability to follow.

Which is what corporations want.

No. It's about turning general directions into more specific directions and ensuring they are carried out. As your career progresses if you do it well those general directions become ever more general until at the top they simply amount to "do well".

In a sense it's like what I do with the computer--I get very general directions as to what capabilities are needed, I turn them into very specific directions as to how to do that and then ensure that the directions I wrote actually do what I expected them to do.

While my directions are written in computer code (cryptic as it might appear to the untrained it's actually quite simple--it's just there's a lot of it) rather than English it's the same basic idea. Someone who isn't good at making idiot-friendly directions will write garbage code.

 

[untermensche]

An MBA will teach you some things about the real world.

But those who do well in MBA programs are not necessarily the best leaders. The programs have no connection to leadership. They mainly test the ability to follow.

Which is what corporations want.

No. It's about turning general directions into more specific directions and ensuring they are carried out. As your career progresses if you do it well those general directions become ever more general until at the top they simply amount to "do well".

You can make "following orders" sound fancy if you like but it is just following orders.

A mindless cog preserving the dictatorial structure.