Reza Aslan, Ben Affleck, Bill Maher and Sam Harris walk into a bar... (Atheism, Islam and liberalism: This is what we are really fighting about)

[skepticalbip]

It is worse than that. It is a mis-identification. Literally, islamophobia would mean "dreadful fear of Islam". To see that Islam is a socially destructive and authoritarian belief system worthy of being opposed is not fear. Antiislamic would be a more appropriate word.

Well then you go with that.

Thank you. I will. I reject the misused word, islamophobia, because it is the apologists method of avoiding trying to defend criticisms of Islamic beliefs and actions. Anyone outraged at the stoning of a woman for allowing herself to be raped is just labeled by apologists as an islamophobe so are just demonstrating their fear of the "word of Allah" so the apologists don't have to defend the practice. The same for any other outrages over similar Islamists' actions against others.

 

[Warpoet]

Reza Aslan said he had PhD in history of religion. In reality he has PhD in sociology, it's titled "Sociology of Jihad". It has nothing to do with history. I know sociologists will protest but sociology is a few ladders lower than history. His academic standing is nonexistant, he is an associate professor of "creative writing", which kinda explains his book writing hobbies.

Reza Aslan give a shit, for once. I give a shit simply because he lied about his credentials.

I explained how. His writing a book is not an issue here, his pretending being a scholar of religion is. First of all he is not a scholar of religion, and second of all, being a muslim, or christian for that matter, disqualifies him from being unbiased scholar of religion.

FOX didn't ask about his credentials, they immediately went on the attack simply because he's a Muslim, something they would never do to a Christian scholar of other religions. Which makes them hypocritical fucking idiots.

You obviously have an axe to grind with Reza Aslan, and the fact that only you and a few others with similar axes to grind are so outraged about this ought to say something. But nonetheless, you haven't come up with anything approaching a sound reason as to why you necroed a year-old thread to post this as though the rest of us ought to give a fuck.

- - - Updated - - -

Nah, it's a made up word, bullshit. it means fuck all.

Yeah, your opinion matters a lot here, because you're such an impartial, credible authority on the subject.

 

[Warpoet]

You cut out the rest of the paragraph.

Because there's no reason to. A poster claimed that Harris has "never said that and doesn't believe it;" my quotation proves that he has said exactly that, verbatim. And what you posted doesn't change that; it's just more of Harris' rhetorical gymnastics demonstrating what an insufferable twat he is.

 

[Warpoet]

Thank you. I will. I reject the misused word, islamophobia, because it is the apologists method of avoiding trying to defend criticisms of Islamic beliefs and actions. Anyone outraged at the stoning of a woman for allowing herself to be raped is just labeled by apologists as an islamophobe so are just demonstrating their fear of the "word of Allah" so the apologists don't have to defend the practice. The same for any other outrages over similar Islamists' actions against others.

So, you respond to what you see as a completely unfair mischaracterization of your views by unfairly mischaracterizing the views of others. Smooth.

Some people use the term in the manner in which you describe, others don't. Sometimes it's applied unfairly, sometimes it isn't; the former does not delegitimize the latter. The same is true of all manner of accusations of bigotry, (anti-Semitism, racism, et cetera). That it's overused doesn't mean it's non-existent.

As for your examples, people who lament the mistreatment of women by Muslims aren't Islamophobes, people who lament the mistreatment of women only when it's done by Muslims are almost always Islamophobes, as are people who generalize about how Muslims think as though they were a hivemind. Such people invariably hold irrational fears of Muslims based on their own idiocy and not fact. Oftentimes, it culminates in complete panic at the prospect of, say, Muslim immigration, which in their minds will be the death of us all. And we have plenty of people who fit this mold, including a few in this very thread.

 

[Juma]

You cut out the rest of the paragraph.

Because there's no reason to. A poster claimed that Harris has "never said that and doesn't believe it;" my quotation proves that he has said exactly that, verbatim. And what you posted doesn't change that.

If you actyally read what you cite you will notice that what he says id that there is no such psychological disorder.
The rest of the text, which you left it, makes it very clear that this is his point.
He attacks the word. Not the fact thst there are awful bigotry, prejudice and didcrimination against mulism snd that he condems that.

So yes, your cherry picking is very misleading.

 

[Warpoet]

If you actyally read what you cite you will notice that what he says id that there is no such psychological disorder.
The rest of the text, which you left it, makes it very clear that this is his point.
He attacks the word. Not the fact thst there are awful bigotry, prejudice and didcrimination against mulism snd that he condems that.

So yes, your cherry picking is very misleading.

Cherry picking? Another poster stated outright that Harris did not say, nor does he believe that "There is no such thing as Islamophobia." The quote unequivocally demonstrates that he said exactly that, word for word. So what the fuck are you talking about?

His reasons for denying that it exists are a separate issue, but unsurprisingly, they're shit. Particularly amusing is that he has the balls to call on Ayaan Hirsi Ali as an example of someone unfairly accused of Islamophobia, when she is a vile bigot who advocates stripping all Muslims of their constitutional rights because of the threat they pose, making her a textbook example of Islamophobia, who, like Harris, has countless fanboys that can't handle the truth.

 

[Juma]

If you actyally read what you cite you will notice that what he says id that there is no such psychological disorder.
The rest of the text, which you left it, makes it very clear that this is his point.
He attacks the word. Not the fact thst there are awful bigotry, prejudice and didcrimination against mulism snd that he condems that.

So yes, your cherry picking is very misleading.

Cherry picking? Another poster stated outright that Harris did not say, nor does he believe that "There is no such thing as Islamophobia." The quote unequivocally proves that he said exactly that, word for word. So what the fuck are you talking about?

Ok, let me make this so simple that 7 year old may understand:

Words can have different meaning.

You can lift a car with a crane. A crane have wings.

When you where talking about Islamophobia above you ment (as most) the prejudice, bigotry and discrimination of muslims..

That is NOT what Harris says doesnt exist.
He very clearly states that what he does not believe exist is the PSYCHOLOGICAL DISORDER Islamophobia.

 

[barbos]

FOX didn't ask about his credentials, they immediately went on the attack simply because he's a Muslim, something they would never do to a Christian scholar of other religions. Which makes them hypocritical fucking idiots.

It would help your case if you provided an example where Fox do that. Personally I don't know many christian PhDs writing pretentious books about islam.
Just because it is Fox does not mean they are not right.

You obviously have an axe to grind with Reza Aslan, and the fact that only you and a few others with similar axes to grind are so outraged about this ought to say something. But nonetheless, you haven't come up with anything approaching a sound reason as to why you necroed a year-old thread to post this as though the rest of us ought to give a fuck.

Yes, I have an axe to grind, whenever I see such assholes on TV I start grinding it.

 

[barbos]

Here is another video on Reza Aslan

 

[Warpoet]

Ok, let me make this so simple that 7 year old may understand:

Or, you could just try reading for comprehension. Or, better yet, just not stick your nose into discussions where you have nothing meaningful to contribute.

Words can have different meaning.

You can lift a car with a crane. A crane have wings.

When you where talking about Islamophobia above you ment (as most) the prejudice, bigotry and discrimination of muslims..

That is NOT what Harris says doesnt exist.

He very clearly states that what he does not believe exist is the PSYCHOLOGICAL DISORDER Islamophobia.

Which does nothing to support your idiotic accusation of "cherry picking." The post I responded to addressed nothing more than the concept of "Islamophobia," not bigotry in general.

Harris is trying to wave away the concept wholesale and reclassify anything that would logically qualify as bigotry, because it's harder to make that accusation stick. But it doesn't really matter, since his reasoning is shit, and he cites an example (Ayaan Hirsi Ali) that totally undermines his case anyway.

 

[Warpoet]

It would help your case if you provided an example where Fox do that. Personally I don't know many christian PhDs writing pretentious books about islam.
Just because it is Fox does not mean they are not right.

Anyone who cares to can go watch the interview and see what a bunch of assholes the idiots at FOX made themselves out to be. But, that's going to be precisely no one, since A) you're bringing up something that happened two and a half fucking years ago and B) no one cared to begin with.

Yes, I have an axe to grind, whenever I see such assholes on TV I start grinding it.

Grind away, just do so without bothering the rest of us.

 

[barbos]

Anyone who cares to can go watch the interview and see what a bunch of assholes the idiots at FOX made themselves out to be. But, that's going to be precisely no one, since A) you're bringing up something that happened two and a half fucking years ago and B) no one cared to begin with.

No, not 2 years ago, Reza Aslan has been on TV recently. And as I said, just because FoxNews are idiots doe not mean they don't occasionally ask good questions.

Yes, I have an axe to grind, whenever I see such assholes on TV I start grinding it.

Grind away, just do so without bothering the rest of us.

You mean you?
You can always leave the thread, nobody is forcing you to read it.

 

[Warpoet]

No, not 2 years ago, Reza Aslan has been on TV recently. And as I said, just because FoxNews are idiots doe not mean they don't occasionally ask good questions.

The interview that spawned all of this is two and a half years old. And who fucking cares if he's been on TV recently? Why should anyone else be involved in your bizarre personal fixation on the man?

You mean you?
You can always leave the thread, nobody is forcing you to read it.

Everyone left the thread, for over a year, before you decided to resurrect it with silly bullshit.

 

[barbos]

The interview that spawned all of this is two and a half years old. And who fucking cares if he's been on TV recently? Why should anyone else be involved in your bizarre personal fixation on the man?

Some people care, if you don't then you are free to not participate.

You mean you?
You can always leave the thread, nobody is forcing you to read it.

Everyone left the thread, for over a year, before you decided to resurrect it with silly bullshit.

Leave the thread.

 

[Warpoet]

Some people care

"You mean you?"

Leave the thread.

You don't give orders here. But here's a better idea than yours: if you don't have a valid reason for necroing a thread a year after the fact, then don't fucking do it.

 

[Juma]

The post I responded to addressed nothing more than the concept of "Islamophobia," not bigotry in general.

So you didnt get it... Sorry but then i cant do anything more for you.

 

[Warpoet]

So you didnt get it... Sorry but then i cant do anything more for you.

There's nothing to "get." I corrected an assertion that was literally false, so your characterization of my post as "cherry-picking" was and remains bullshit.

The disingenuous games Harris attempts to play elsewhere in the article also collapse under scrutiny.

 

[TSwizzle]

"Islamophobe" is an invented term which does not mean much usually because it is severely overused. If you apply it the way islamic appologists apply it then 70% of population on the west would be islamophobes.

Gee, I wonder who invented it ?

Now let me invent few other terms, - "westophobe", "cartoonophobe", "freedomphobe", "womanphobe", "commonsensephobes", "intelligencephobes"

"brusselssproutphobes", when kids refuse to eat their Brussels sprouts because they taste crap.

 

[Juma]

So you didnt get it... Sorry but then i cant do anything more for you.

There's nothing to "get." I corrected an assertion that was literally false, so your characterization of my post as "cherry-picking" was and remains bullshit.
.

What everyone gets is that you are not a person of nuances. That for you it is black or white. I'm done with you. Bye.

 

[Warpoet]

What everyone gets is that you are not a person of nuances. That for you it is black or white. I'm done with you. Bye.

No, not "everyone" gets that, just a handful of Harris fanboys who have to spring to his defense any time he's mentioned. What I posted was not cherry picking, and pointing this out does not indicate any lack of nuance. It's basic logic.

Besides, I gave a pretty clear example of why Harris' argument is disingenuous bullshit (his handwaving defense of Ayaan Hirsi Ali), but you weren't able to respond to that either.