Reports of at Least 20 Victims Amid Active Shooting Incident in San Bernardino

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Good luck with that. It's not illegal to make your own. I'm going to put one together using an 80% lower and some hand tools. No serial number needed.

Next thing you know people will be asking for government registration to exercise your 1st ammendment rights too. Might as well since few people seem to care about their rights.

People care about their rights well enough, they just don't take it far enough and extend those same thoughts to others. If they cared half as much about the rest of humanity's rights, saw themselves in other people, the problem of people killing people would go away, except for the real crazies. Shit like San Bernadino would happen maybe once every hundred years.

But things being what they are, the best thing is to probably arm yourself, become comfortable with a weapon and carry concealed. Lots of people are still going to die, but maybe you'll get to kill a bad guy along the way. It isn't much, but it's better than letting yourself be killed by a crazy.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Good luck with that. It's not illegal to make your own. I'm going to put one together using an 80% lower and some hand tools. No serial number needed.

Next thing you know people will be asking for government registration to exercise your 1st ammendment rights too. Might as well since few people seem to care about their rights.

People care about their rights well enough, they just don't take it far enough and extend those same thoughts to others. If they cared half as much about the rest of humanity's rights, saw themselves in other people, the problem of people killing people would go away, except for the real crazies. Shit like San Bernadino would happen maybe once every hundred years.

But things being what they are, the best thing is to probably arm yourself, become comfortable with a weapon and carry concealed. Lots of people are still going to die, but maybe you'll get to kill a bad guy along the way. It isn't much, but it's better than letting yourself be killed by a crazy.

Except you won't kill a bad guy. Pulling a gun and trying to shoot back is, statistically speaking, the worst mistake you can make. It's a dumb choice.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

People care about their rights well enough, they just don't take it far enough and extend those same thoughts to others. If they cared half as much about the rest of humanity's rights, saw themselves in other people, the problem of people killing people would go away, except for the real crazies. Shit like San Bernadino would happen maybe once every hundred years.

But things being what they are, the best thing is to probably arm yourself, become comfortable with a weapon and carry concealed. Lots of people are still going to die, but maybe you'll get to kill a bad guy along the way. It isn't much, but it's better than letting yourself be killed by a crazy.

Except you won't kill a bad guy. Pulling a gun and trying to shoot back is, statistically speaking, the worst mistake you can make. It's a dumb choice.

Like all of natural selection it just depends on the environment and dumb luck. I'll hunker down behind a locked door before I'll draw a gun and shoot like in the movies. But I'll still have my gun.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, that's fine. It's still only making you safer in the way that cashing in your savings and betting them on the craps table is an investment plan, though. While you might get lucky, the odds are that its a bad decision.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Ya, that's fine. It's still only making you safer in the way that cashing in your savings and betting them on the craps table is an investment plan, though. While you might get lucky, the odds are that its a bad decision.

You're right. It is a bit of a crapshoot. Nancy Lanza I recall had half a dozen guns. But the best data out there says CC and gun ownership has no effect on violent crime. Cultural factors are far more related than simply ownership and CC.

 

[iolo]

Good luck with that. It's not illegal to make your own. I'm going to put one together using an 80% lower and some hand tools. No serial number needed.

Next thing you know people will be asking for government registration to exercise your 1st ammendment rights too. Might as well since few people seem to care about their rights.

Very few people in the world believe their right to shoot people dead is anything but an encouragement to murder. America is a sick, unfree country where you could be murdered at any time by nutters.

 

[Roller]

We can't increase gun control because it will negatively affect law abiding citizens from acquiring guns. Law abiding citizens like Syed and Tashfeen. Law abiding until the moment that they are not.


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[Roller]

San Bernardino is almost certainly an Islamist terror cell that went off prematurely. No gun control would have worked, they would have foreign sources of weapons.

Except they didn't. It is already known that two of the guns were bought here in the US "legally"

Apparently ISIS encourages America's gun control laws as an easy way to acquire weapons for terror plots.

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2011/06/06/238156/al-qaeda-gun-show-loophole-2/

Edit: al-Qaeda at that time, not ISIS

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[ZiprHead]

We can't increase gun control because it will negatively affect law abiding citizens from acquiring guns. Law abiding citizens like Syed and Tashfeen. Law abiding until the moment that they are not.


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Damn good point.

Sent from my HP Probook 6550b using the keyboard

 

[Nice Squirrel]

We can't increase gun control because it will negatively affect law abiding citizens from acquiring guns. Law abiding citizens like Syed and Tashfeen. Law abiding until the moment that they are not.


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Damn good point.

This. An who are you going to shoot? The other good guy with a gun that is pointing it at you because you have a gun in an active shooter scenario.

That's gonna save lives.

 

[Roller]

People care about their rights well enough, they just don't take it far enough and extend those same thoughts to others. If they cared half as much about the rest of humanity's rights, saw themselves in other people, the problem of people killing people would go away, except for the real crazies. Shit like San Bernadino would happen maybe once every hundred years.

But things being what they are, the best thing is to probably arm yourself, become comfortable with a weapon and carry concealed. Lots of people are still going to die, but maybe you'll get to kill a bad guy along the way. It isn't much, but it's better than letting yourself be killed by a crazy.

Except you won't kill a bad guy. Pulling a gun and trying to shoot back is, statistically speaking, the worst mistake you can make. It's a dumb choice.

Here is a clip from ABC News back in 2010. It shows the difficulty of stopping a shooter. Never mind the issue of figuring out who are the good guys.

http://youtu.be/8QjZY3WiO9s


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[ZiprHead]

Damn good point.

This. An who are you going to shoot? The other good guy with a gun that is pointing it at you because you have a gun in an active shooter scenario.

That's gonna save lives.

Seems to me there's a central theme running through all this. The presence of guns.

 

[Roller]

Same day Sandy Hook happened, a crazed man in China attacked a bunch of school kids wounding 22 of them. Notice "wounding" not "killing". Difference? He had no gun.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...dy-hook-china-s-terrifying-knife-attacks.html


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[T.G.G. Moogly]

This. An who are you going to shoot? The other good guy with a gun that is pointing it at you because you have a gun in an active shooter scenario.

That's gonna save lives.

Seems to me there's a central theme running through all this. The presence of guns.

The more central theme is the presence of crazy - or mental illness - or just the way nature works against the best intentions sometimes. Or perhaps humans are just living that legacy of aggression, fear, conquest, tribalism, you name it. It ain't good but it sure is there and isn't going to pretend itself away anytime soon. We're stuck with our rat brains.

I think, though, the problem isn't really weapons but how deadly guns are compared to things like knives, swords, clubs, spears or baseball bats. If the Sandy Hook shooter was using a machete instead of an assault rifle, he could have been more easily confronted and taken down. But that wouldn't mean we need to keep machetes out of people's homes either. Individual people want to defend themselves. It's as simple as that. We have to find a solution that doesn't disarm the innocent person. I know lots of people who have guns and NRA memberships. They're not criminals.

 

[Roller]

Problem is, those law abiding people are not criminals until they are like Syed and Tashfeen.

Besides, I thought Obama confiscated all the guns and sent gun owners to FEMA camps back in 2009.


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[repoman]

This guy bought the two rifles for the killers.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Which is legal, correct?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Except you won't kill a bad guy. Pulling a gun and trying to shoot back is, statistically speaking, the worst mistake you can make. It's a dumb choice.

Here is a clip from ABC News back in 2010. It shows the difficulty of stopping a shooter. Never mind the issue of figuring out who are the good guys.

http://youtu.be/8QjZY3WiO9s


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Gun-grabber propaganda. They put an untrained person in about the worst possible scenario--of course he failed. That does not say one way or another about other scenarios.

 

[Roller]

Because most law abiding gun owners are grizzled veterans of thousand battles.


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[Roller]

Which is legal, correct?

Apparently the transfer of guns was done legally.

Straw purchases are illegal (I don't know if Arizona is still lax about it). But even if murderers were not able to purchase guns themselves, there is no magic barrier to prevent straw purchases.

This is particularly big problem in Mexico where most (all?) gun sales are illegal. That doesn't stop a constant stream of legally purchased guns into Mexico from US.


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