Cop Indicted For Murder

[Derec]

Beat me to it. Yes, it's the indictment and the police department's choice to release his bodycam video that brought this case to the attention of the media. On the one hand, trying to cover it up would be risking a huge shitstorm if it somehow leaked on its own;

It was a news story even before the video was released. Largely due to the race of the deceased.

on the other hand, a district attorney knows a reckless homicide when he sees one.

Reckless homicide != murder.

For fucks sake, the officer shot an unarmed man in the head at nearly point blank range and killed him because the man got spooked by the officer's moves and may have tried to drive off. The officer's actions appear to be outrageous and indefensible to most people who have watched the incident on video, but apparently not to a select handful of individuals like you and Derec who believe police officers should be above the law.

1. Somebody in command of a 2 ton or so motor vehicle is not considered "unarmed".
2. Why was he "spooked"? And what inference can a police officer draw from the person he stops being "spooked"? Is he a wanted fugitive or on some sort of substance that makes him paranoid?
3. Nobody believes police should be above the law. They should not be below the law either. Was the shooting wholly justified? Probably not. But there were certainly mitigating circumstances which make the murder charge, and the DA's hyperbolic statements, completely unwarranted.

By the way, this is the reason why police officers are at high alert when conducting traffic stops.
Officer fatally shot during traffic stop in Memphis; killer on the run
Which is why it's bad idea to do stupid shit while being stopped. Here we have a person who did not have a licence (because it was indefinitely suspended as it turns out) and acted strangely (repeating questions, giving the cop a bottle of gin) who then tries to bolt. Even if the shooting is unjustified and the cop is convicted DuBose still contributed to his own death to a significant degree.

LP and Derec belief that the murder of a black person can ALWAYS be justified if you just dig deep enough. Either because said black person was a scumbag anyway, or because the police officer has a justification that isn't clear from the evidence.

And you are assuming it's "murder" every time.

 

[arkirk]

Derec: It's MURDER THIS TIME AND ALL OTHER TIMES LIKE THIS TIME.

 

[Derec]

Here you are again shuffling and trying to justify one human being murdering another.

I am not trying to justify anything. I am merely commenting on what Toni wrote.

You have lost track of the fact that this is becoming habitual police behavior in America. I heard the prosecutor on TV last night saying that this guy's actions were "about the most asinine actions" he could conceive a cop doing.

I was flabbergasted by that DA. Even if the shooting was not justified, he was completely exaggerating the situation. The fact is that DuBose escalated the situation by being evasive, preventing the officer from opening his door, and trying to bolt.
Pro-tip: don't do that, regardless of race.

- - - Updated - - -

Derec: It's MURDER THIS TIME

Manslaughter at most.

AND ALL OTHER TIMES LIKE THIS TIME.

Like for example?

 

[abaddon]

it's bad idea to do stupid shit while being stopped

Yeah, it is kinda stupid to just open a person’s door without saying “Sir, I would like you to step from the vehicle.” It’s more stupid to reach into a car that’s in gear and grab the driver. And while doing that, to pull a gun and shoot that man in the head, yeah, that’s pretty damn stupid too.

Tensing’s million dollar bail says this: “We’re getting sick of this shit and there’s a change happening where you lawman’s asses won't be covered so readily when you fuck up, the way we used to do.”

So, yes, the police damn well better care to not do any stupid shit under all circumstances.

DuBose still contributed to his own death to a significant degree.

Dubose assumed a level of humanity and non-murderousness on the idiot pig’s part that wasn’t there.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I am not trying to justify anything.

And I'm the queen of Spain.

The fact is that DuBose escalated the situation by being evasive, preventing the officer from opening his door

The officer had no probable cause to attempt to open the door or force Dubose out of his vehicle, and attempting to do so started a confrontation that escalated to gunfire inside of five seconds.

Failure to cooperate with police officers is NOT an escalation of a conflict. You do not have to consent to a search or the seizure of your property, nor do you have to respond to an officer's questions.

AND ALL OTHER TIMES LIKE THIS TIME.

Like for example?

Tamir Rice. Walter Scott. Levar Jones. Just off the top of my head.

 

[abaddon]

Something has been found in the pictures--after the cop took that tumble when he got back up he was about 30' down the road from where things started. The only way that could have happened is if he actually was being dragged. Dragging is a potentially lethal threat, this was a justified shoot.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2015/07/sam-dubose-shooting-lets-go-to-the-video-tape/

And he was not "unarmed". He was most certainly armed--with a car.

Dragged by what? By his grip on Dubose with his left hand, or by his gun pointing at Dubose’s head in his right hand? Or was his dick stuck in the door?





Dubose wasn’t holding him. Dubose is too busy reacting first against the grasping hands and then he lifts the left hand (and it appears even his right hand a little) and turns his face away in terror of the gun as it points at his head and then fires.

The cop released and fell backwards when the car suddenly picked up speed, which was after shooting Dubose’s brains out. If you watch the driveway behind Dubose, notice it remains there behind Dubose till after he’s shot in the head.

When Tensing pulls himself up off the street and looks around, looks like he’s a little distance down from the driveway that had been visible behind Dubose. So Tensing might have taken a few steps alongside the car as he held the driver with one hand and shot him in the head with the other.

Slow the video down to 0.25 in Settings (at Youtube) if it helps.

 

[Derec]

And I'm the queen of Spain.

If you say so, Letizia.

The officer had no probable cause to attempt to open the door or force Dubose out of his vehicle,

Driving without a driver's licence? Trying to bribe him with a bottle of gin?

and attempting to do so started a confrontation that escalated to gunfire inside of five seconds.

DuBose could have chosen not to escalate.

Failure to cooperate with police officers is NOT an escalation of a conflict.

No?

You do not have to consent to a search or the seizure of your property, nor do you have to respond to an officer's questions.

I do not know how things work in Spain, Letizia, but in US you have to obey lawful orders (like asking you to produce your DL). And while you do not have to say anything, not answering reasonable questions (like is your license suspended) will make you subject to arrest. And if you do not allow yourself to be arrested peacefully you can be subject to the use of force.

Tamir Rice. Walter Scott. Levar Jones. Just off the top of my head.

I would say only Walter Scott is a likely murder. And Jones didn't even die.

 

[ZiprHead]

http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/08/2014-officer-ray-tensing-video-cincinnati/

Cincinnati Killer Cop Caught On Video Harassing Black Motorists

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Driving without a driver's licence? Trying to bribe him with a bottle of gin?

The former is not probable cause to search the vehicle. The latter is a figment of racist little imagination.

DuBose could have chosen not to escalate.

He did.

Tamir Rice. Walter Scott. Levar Jones. Just off the top of my head.

I would say only Walter Scott is a likely murder. And Jones didn't even die.

Yes, I'm aware you believe that young "thug" Tamir Rice deserved to die for playing with a toy gun in the park. OTOH, the officer who shot Levar Jones went to prison for attempted murder.

 

[Derec]

The former is not probable cause to search the vehicle.

It's probable cause to arrest somebody.
Also, a cop doesn't need probable cause to ask somebody to get out of the car.

The latter is a figment of racist little imagination.

Have you forgotten already Letizia?

He did.

That would have involved not grabbing the doors and turning on the car and putting it in gear.

Yes, I'm aware you believe that young "thug" Tamir Rice deserved to die for playing with a toy gun in the park.

Did I say he deserved to die? I just said I do not think it was murder. Also the "toy gun" was a realistic looking replica with orange tip removed.

OTOH, the officer who shot Levar Jones went to prison for attempted murder.

Which is obviously not murder. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/08/2014-officer-ray-tensing-video-cincinnati/

Cincinnati Killer Cop Caught On Video Harassing Black Motorists

This is all very interesting, ZipHead, but I'm curious why Derec isn't digging up Dirt on Officer Tensing the way he pretended to do on Dubose.

 

[Derec]

This is all very interesting, ZipHead, but I'm curious why Derec isn't digging up Dirt on Officer Tensing the way he pretended to do on Dubose.

Because I have you to do that for me Letizia. By the way, when are we getting toxicology on DuBose?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

It's probable cause to arrest somebody.

Only if you have cause to suspect the driver is unlicensed. The next step in determining that is to run a check on the driver's given name, which every police officer in the country is currently able to do.

Also, a cop doesn't need probable cause to ask somebody to get out of the car.

He does, actually, which the video directly above this demonstrates.

The latter is a figment of racist little imagination.

Have you forgotten already Letizia?

Have YOU forgotten already, Derec?

Tensing asked him "What's that, uh, bottle on the floor there?"

Dubose handed him the bottle, and Tensing examined it, saw it was un-opened, and then asked him again "Do you have your license on you?"

Thus I repeat: "Tried top bribe him with a bottle of gin" is a figment of your racist little imagination.

That would have involved not grabbing the doors and turning on the car and putting it in gear.

Failing to consent to an officer attempting to illegally enter your vehicle is not escalation. It was Dubose exercising his legal right to privacy.

Yes, I'm aware you believe that young "thug" Tamir Rice deserved to die for playing with a toy gun in the park.

Did I say he deserved to die?

Well...

the "toy gun" was a realistic looking replica with orange tip removed.

... is a roundabout way of saying "yes."

Still waiting for you to dig up dirt on Officer Tensing along with a helpful "estimate" of all his children and baby mammas.

- - - Updated - - -

This is all very interesting, ZipHead, but I'm curious why Derec isn't digging up Dirt on Officer Tensing the way he pretended to do on Dubose.

Because I have you to do that for me Letizia. By the way, when are we getting toxicology on DuBose?

When are we getting one on TENSING?

 

[abaddon]

Also, a cop doesn't need probable cause to ask somebody to get out of the car.

But he didn’t ask. He was suggesting removing the seatbelt while pulling at the door handle.

The latter is a figment of racist little imagination.

Here's the exchange regarding the bottle:

OFFICER TENSING: What’s that bottle on the floor there?
DUBOSE: Oh, that’s a bottle of (unintelligible)
OFFICER TENSING: A bottle of what?
DUBOSE: A bottle of (unintelligible)

Tensing looks at the bottle a moment then puts it on the car's roof, and I don't think he mentioned it again.

So, how did you get “bribe” out of the man handing a bottle over?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That is an incomplete analysis - as your link admits.

The only way that could have happened is if he actually was being dragged.

Bullshit.

Dragging is a potentially lethal threat, this was a justified shoot.

Bullshit squared. If he could fire at a fleeing suspect, he was in no danger.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2015/07/sam-dubose-shooting-lets-go-to-the-video-tape/

And he was not "unarmed". He was most certainly armed--with a car.

Bullshit cubed. From your own link:

One difficulty for Tensing’s narrative of innocence–that when he fired the shot he was in fear of imminent death or great bodily harm–is that the video does not appear to show the car moving until the shot has already been fired.

I do agree much of the movement was after the shot was fired. All that shows is the cop's quick reaction to the situation. If the guy hadn't been driving off and dragging the cop he wouldn't have ended up 30' down the street.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah, it is kinda stupid to just open a person’s door without saying “Sir, I would like you to step from the vehicle.” It’s more stupid to reach into a car that’s in gear and grab the driver. And while doing that, to pull a gun and shoot that man in the head, yeah, that’s pretty damn stupid too.

Tensing’s million dollar bail says this: “We’re getting sick of this shit and there’s a change happening where you lawman’s asses won't be covered so readily when you fuck up, the way we used to do.”

So, yes, the police damn well better care to not do any stupid shit under all circumstances.

DuBose still contributed to his own death to a significant degree.

Dubose assumed a level of humanity and non-murderousness on the idiot pig’s part that wasn’t there.

I do agree it was stupid to reach into the car.

As for asking him to step from the vehicle--the guy wasn't compliant anyway. It wouldn't have worked.

We have here the all-too-common cause of police shootings: The bad guy tries to rabbit without considering that his actions are a threat to the officer.

 

[Derec]

Only if you have cause to suspect the driver is unlicensed.

Driver's evasive answers do give a cause to such suspicions.

The next step in determining that is to run a check on the driver's given name, which every police officer in the country is currently able to do.

Did DuBose ever give him his name?

He does, actually, which the video directly above this demonstrates.

No, he does not, according to SCOTUS.

Tensing asked him "What's that, uh, bottle on the floor there?"
Dubose handed him the bottle, and Tensing examined it, saw it was un-opened, and then asked him again "Do you have your license on you?"

Hmm, I did not hear that bit. If true, I stand corrected.

Thus I repeat: "Tried top bribe him with a bottle of gin" is a figment of your racist little imagination.

You love to throw words like "racist" around indiscriminately, don't you?

Failing to consent to an officer attempting to illegally enter your vehicle is not escalation. It was Dubose exercising his legal right to privacy.

First you'd have to establish that officer attempting to open the door was illegal.

... is a roundabout way of saying "yes."

No it is not. Saying that the officer thought it was a real gun (or that they thought he was an adult) does not mean the kid deserved to die.

Still waiting for you to dig up dirt on Officer Tensing along with a helpful "estimate" of all his children and baby mammas.

What do I have you for? By the way, no digging was required. Details about DuBose's children and arrests came from early reports on the shooting. The estimate on the number of children actually came from his eldest son.

When are we getting one on TENSING?

I asked first.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Something has been found in the pictures--after the cop took that tumble when he got back up he was about 30' down the road from where things started. The only way that could have happened is if he actually was being dragged. Dragging is a potentially lethal threat, this was a justified shoot.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2015/07/sam-dubose-shooting-lets-go-to-the-video-tape/

And he was not "unarmed". He was most certainly armed--with a car.

Dragged by what? By his grip on Dubose with his left hand, or by his gun pointing at Dubose’s head in his right hand? Or was his dick stuck in the door?





Dubose wasn’t holding him. Dubose is too busy reacting first against the grasping hands and then he lifts the left hand (and it appears even his right hand a little) and turns his face away in terror of the gun as it points at his head and then fires.

The cop released and fell backwards when the car suddenly picked up speed, which was after shooting Dubose’s brains out. If you watch the driveway behind Dubose, notice it remains there behind Dubose till after he’s shot in the head.

When Tensing pulls himself up off the street and looks around, looks like he’s a little distance down from the driveway that had been visible behind Dubose. So Tensing might have taken a few steps alongside the car as he held the driver with one hand and shot him in the head with the other.

Slow the video down to 0.25 in Settings (at Youtube) if it helps.

I viewed the original at 30:1, the critical frames themselves are motion-blurred, stabilization can't help that.

This stabilization does help show that the guy started his car and the cop reached in to stop that. The guy was struggling with the cop's left hand. We can't see his foot but if he stomped on the gas at that point the threat exists--and the cop's reactions are consistent with that.

 

[laughing dog]

I do agree much of the movement was after the shot was fired. All that shows is the cop's quick reaction to the situation.

Then why on earth are you claiming that the movement constituted a danger?

If the guy hadn't been driving off and dragging the cop he wouldn't have ended up 30' down the street.

So what? That has nothing to do with being a threat at the time of being killed.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/08/2014-officer-ray-tensing-video-cincinnati/

Cincinnati Killer Cop Caught On Video Harassing Black Motorists

Harassing?? I didn't watch the whole thing but it's clear the driver is the problem there.

You're driving a car, you don't get to not identify yourself to the police.

- - - Updated - - -

Then why on earth are you claiming that the movement constituted a danger?

If the guy hadn't been driving off and dragging the cop he wouldn't have ended up 30' down the street.

So what? That has nothing to do with being a threat at the time of being killed.

What we are seeing is the cop was able to shoot fast enough to avoid being seriously harmed. There's no obligation to let the other guy seriously hurt you before you defend yourself.