Greece, what the fuck?

[untermensche]

Their GDP was inflated by an unsustainable borrowing binge. So yeah, that's what happens when the binge stops.

They voted to end the economic warfare being waged against their nation.

They voted to try to sustain the unsustainable borrowing-now-turned-charity binge. But the mistake they made was their vote is not binding on lenders in other countries.

You and your family could vote for the Germans to send you 1000 bratwursts and a Mercedes-Benz but it's not binding on the Germans.

The Greek people voted to end a failed policy.

But of course failed policy is the mantra of right-wing economists that dominate Europe and the US.

Failure of course means making most people poorer.

These policies do make a few incredibly rich at the expense of people that actually do productive work.

 

[Sarpedon]

2.3% of GDP spent on military/defense, almost twice the amount as a percent of GDP basis as Germany.

OOh, I will field this one. Both Greece and Germany are members of NATO, who's charter REQUIRES members to spend at least 2% of their GDP on defense. Germany has for many years been underspending, gaining the benefits of protection of other NATO members while lining their own pockets. Greece, being on the periphery of NATO has to spend quite a lot more on defense. Remember the migrant crisis? Who's coast guard is having to work to cope with it? That's right, Greece, Italy, and Spain, the same countries deadbeat countries like Germany are squeezing for money.

 

[dismal]

Their GDP was inflated by an unsustainable borrowing binge. So yeah, that's what happens when the binge stops.



They voted to try to sustain the unsustainable borrowing-now-turned-charity binge. But the mistake they made was their vote is not binding on lenders in other countries.

You and your family could vote for the Germans to send you 1000 bratwursts and a Mercedes-Benz but it's not binding on the Germans.

The Greek people voted to end a failed policy.

But of course failed policy is the mantra of right-wing economists that dominate Europe and the US.

Failure of course means making most people poorer.

These policies do make a few incredibly rich at the expense of people that actually do productive work.

How exactly in your mind is the failed policy going to end now?

 

[untermensche]

The Greek people voted to end a failed policy.

But of course failed policy is the mantra of right-wing economists that dominate Europe and the US.

Failure of course means making most people poorer.

These policies do make a few incredibly rich at the expense of people that actually do productive work.

How exactly in your mind is the failed policy going to end now?

What is your plan to restore the Greek economy?

Again, the only economist that had a realistic plan to invigorate a depressed economy was Keynes.

What was the policy for England after WWII when it's economy was destroyed? What was the policy for Germany?

I'll give you a hint. It wasn't austerity.

 

[dismal]

How exactly in your mind is the failed policy going to end now?

What is your plan to restore the Greek economy?

Again, the only economist that had a realistic plan to invigorate a depressed economy was Keynes.

What was the policy for England after WWII when it's economy was destroyed? What was the policy for Germany?

I'll give you a hint. It wasn't austerity.

You didn't answer the question.

Want to give it another shot?

How is the failed policy going to end now?

 

[untermensche]

What is your plan to restore the Greek economy?

Again, the only economist that had a realistic plan to invigorate a depressed economy was Keynes.

What was the policy for England after WWII when it's economy was destroyed? What was the policy for Germany?

I'll give you a hint. It wasn't austerity.

You didn't answer the question.

Want to give it another shot?

How is the failed policy going to end now?

It is a question a child would ask.

Now answer mine.

What were the policies for England and Germany after WWII?

Those are the policies needed in Greece now after right wing economics has destroyed the place.

Let us not forget this whole crisis was started by bankers when they abandoned sound lending practices and threw the world into a huge recession.

 

[dismal]

You didn't answer the question.

Want to give it another shot?

How is the failed policy going to end now?

It is a question a child would ask.

Now answer mine.

What were the policies for England and Germany after WWII?

Those are the policies needed in Greece now after right wing economics has destroyed the place.

Let us not forget this whole crisis was started by bankers when they abandoned sound lending practices and threw the world into a huge recession.

This is a thread about Greece.

You stated the Greek people voted to end a failed policy in this thread about Greece.

I asked how their vote would end the failed policy in this thread about Greece.

This is not "a question a child would ask" in a thread about Greece in which there has been a claim about a vote in Greece that will supposedly end a failed policy in Greece.

So, again, as directly as you can please explain how in your mind this vote will end a failed policy in Greece.

 

[untermensche]

It is a question a child would ask.

Now answer mine.

What were the policies for England and Germany after WWII?

Those are the policies needed in Greece now after right wing economics has destroyed the place.

Let us not forget this whole crisis was started by bankers when they abandoned sound lending practices and threw the world into a huge recession.

This is a thread about Greece.

You stated the Greek people voted to end a failed policy in this thread about Greece.

I asked how their vote would end the failed policy in this thread about Greece.

This is not "a question a child would ask" in a thread about Greece in which there has been a claim about a vote in Greece that will supposedly end a failed policy in Greece.

So, again, as directly as you can please explain how in your mind this vote will end a failed policy in Greece.

Fine, you won't answer. You seem to have some agenda.

Maybe other people know.

What were the policies to restore the economies of England and Germany when they were in ruin after WWII?

Those are the policies needed in Greece now.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-liassez-faire-neoliberalism?CMP=share_btn_fb

The IMF is controlled by the rich, and governs the poor on their behalf. It’s now doing to Greece what it has done to one poor nation after another, from Argentina to Zambia. Its structural adjustment programmes have forced scores of elected governments to dismantle public spending, destroying health, education and all the means by which the wretched of the earth might improve their lives.

The same programme is imposed regardless of circumstance: every country the IMF colonises must place the control of inflation ahead of other economic objectives; immediately remove barriers to trade and the flow of capital; liberalise its banking system; reduce government spending on everything bar debt repayments; and privatise assets that can be sold to foreign investors.

 

[Togo]

How is the failed policy going to end now?

One of two ways. Either the creditors agree to a different set of policies, thus ending the old set, or Greece defaults, and the investors get repaid proportionally to the extent that they accept Greece as a trading partner post-default. Either way, the austerity policy that has failed so badly is dead in the water.

Which was the point and purpose of the referendum, and why the creditors got so upset about it.

 

[dismal]

How is the failed policy going to end now?

One of two ways. Either the creditors agree to a different set of policies, thus ending the old set, or Greece defaults, and the investors get repaid proportionally to the extent that they accept Greece as a trading partner post-default. Either way, the austerity policy that has failed so badly is dead in the water.

The ECB may indeed show up with more candies and nuts for Christmas resulting in less austerity, but the Greeks did not -- and are not able to -- vote for them to do that. And at this point it's hard to imagine how the vote made it more likely.

How does the other one result in less "austerity"?

 

[ksen]

This is a thread about Greece.

Huh, then why do you keep bringing up germany?

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What were the policies to restore the economies of England and Germany when they were in ruin after WWII?

Those are the policies needed in Greece now.

I know what they were: debt forgiveness and mo money.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

I know what they were: debt forgiveness and mo money.

Let's Marshall Plan their asses!

 

[dismal]

Huh, then why do you keep bringing up germany?

Greece is currently begging Germany and some other European countries for money.

 

[ksen]

Huh, then why do you keep bringing up germany?

Greece is currently begging Germany and some other European countries for money.

Then it is appropriate to bring up Germany in a thread about Greece.

Do you only have a problem with bringing Germany up in a Greece thread if it's untermensche doing it?

During Quantitative Easing did you classify the banks as begging Texas, California and New York for money when they went to the Fed with hat in hand?

 

[dismal]

Greece is currently begging Germany and some other European countries for money.

Then it is appropriate to bring up Germany in a thread about Greece.

It can be. But, like, if you wanted to talk about their disappointing women's world cup showing it would not be.

 

[Togo]

One of two ways. Either the creditors agree to a different set of policies, thus ending the old set, or Greece defaults, and the investors get repaid proportionally to the extent that they accept Greece as a trading partner post-default. Either way, the austerity policy that has failed so badly is dead in the water.

The ECB may indeed show up with more candies and nuts for Christmas resulting in less austerity, but the Greeks did not -- and are not able to -- vote for them to do that.

No, but they can, and did, vote to reject the package that was offered.

And at this point it's hard to imagine how the vote made it more likely.

The vote gives the creditors the choice. Either they can impose less severe terms, and avoid those specific policies that the Greek government believes would damage the Greek economy, or they can let Greece default, and let the money they get back depend on how quickly they re-establish normal trading relations. Either path involves a rejection of the austerity measures previously being discussed, which now aren't going to happen.

How does the other one result in less "austerity"?

The policy being rejected was a series of specific austerity measures designed to increase the net tax take of the Greek government, so more money would be available for repaying foreign creditors. In the event of a Greek default, those payments are no longer made (that's what a default means), which means Greece is left with the fiscal surplus they've been running for several years now, and can get their economy back on track.

Basically it's the same pattern as any other debt default - as the creditors are unable to make arrangements to delay or haircut their payments, the borrower does that for them.

 

[ksen]

Then it is appropriate to bring up Germany in a thread about Greece.

It can be. But, like, if you wanted to talk about their disappointing women's world cup showing it would not be.

Is that what unter wanted to do? Talk about Germany's disappointing women's world cup showing? I thought he wanted to talk about how germany handled it when they found themselves in the same position greece is in now dealing with unsustainable levels of debt which does seem like an appropriate discussion to have in this thread.

 

[untermensche]

Huh, then why do you keep bringing up germany?

- - - Updated - - -

What were the policies to restore the economies of England and Germany when they were in ruin after WWII?

Those are the policies needed in Greece now.

I know what they were: debt forgiveness and mo money.

And Keynes represented the English is getting these terms.

He wasn't advocating the policies of austerity. And we see the difference.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That is what I said. The Greek people did not incur these debts. Their awful so-called representatives did. And these representatives did not represent the interests of the Greek people just as many so-called leaders once in office fail to do so.

But people certainly are salivating at the prospect of extreme hardship in Greece. That sadistic strain of ape that is common place, especially in the US on the right.

We just had a referendum that confirmed popular support for the reckless spending.

The referendum had nothing to do with reckless spending. The Greeks have done everything asked over the last few years and have watched their GDP decline by 25%. Can you fathom that number?

They voted to end the economic warfare being waged against their nation.

The Greeks most certainly have not done everything asked. They aren't fixing the fundamental flaws to their system at all.