Greece, what the fuck?

[Perspicuo]

usury
[yoo-zhuh-ree]

noun, plural usuries.
1.
the lending or practice of lending money at an exorbitant interest.
2.
an exorbitant amount or rate of interest, especially in excess of the legal rate.
3.
Obsolete. interest paid for the use of money.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/usury?s=t

The whole issue on Greece versus extreme Capitalist usury sinks its roots into the whole ethical dilemma of usury, not of interest charging, but of excessive lending with exploitative charging.

If this isn't changed, we will have defaults all over the place all the time. Just as borrowers ending up jobless requires readjustments, countries being hard-hit by recession and extraordinarily high unemployment, require adjustments for the same reason.

 

[Jokodo]

Wrong. The troika know that Greece isn't going to be able to pay back its debt with or without austerity. They say so themselves in private http://www.theguardian.com/business...sis-says-significant-concessions-still-needed

The purpose of bullying Greece isn't to maximise returns, it's to humiliate SYRIZA and make life as hard as can for the Greek people so voters in other countries won't get the "wrong" ideas.

Super-silly notion. Of course it´s not about humiliating anybody. It´s just a fact that Greece won´t be able to pay back without austerity.<snip>

It may or may not be able to pay back eventually without the kind of austerity the troika is demanding.

It will definitely not be able to pay back ever if it cripples its economic infrastructure by complying with their demands. We've seen where that leads over the last 5 years.

So either the troika is literally insane - trying the same thing again and again and expecting different results - or their real goal has nothing to do with getting the money back. My money's on the latter, but if that sounds too much like a conspiracy theory to you, you can bet on the former. In terms of practical implications, it doesn't matter much - they need to be stopped one way or the other.

 

[barbos]

http://www.ft.com/home/europe
Tsipras backs down

 

[Perspicuo]

Greek citizens [...] have seen a quarter of their GDP wiped out, unemployment at Great Depression levels and 17 per cent unable to meet their daily food needs. The savage, humiliating, hopeless, austerity rollercoaster is going on five years now. The programme has failed.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/k...e-have-weathered-the-greek-medicine-1.2268399

http://www.ft.com/home/europe
Tsipras backs down

More austerity -what bold and new idea- it's gotta work!

 

[dismal]

usury
[yoo-zhuh-ree]

noun, plural usuries.
1.
the lending or practice of lending money at an exorbitant interest.
2.
an exorbitant amount or rate of interest, especially in excess of the legal rate.
3.
Obsolete. interest paid for the use of money.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/usury?s=t

The whole issue on Greece versus extreme Capitalist usury sinks its roots into the whole ethical dilemma of usury, not of interest charging, but of excessive lending with exploitative charging.

If this isn't changed, we will have defaults all over the place all the time. Just as borrowers ending up jobless requires readjustments, countries being hard-hit by recession and extraordinarily high unemployment, require adjustments for the same reason.

You people inhabit a strange world of your own imagination. Lenders are taking haircuts and losing money on what they lent to Greece, and are being told to expect more losses as they are asked to put up more money.

Lending them money has been more akin to charity than anything that even slightly resembles usury.

 

[Perspicuo]

Ok, since you don't understand compassion nor empathy, let's see it from a point of view you will understand -sheer greed:

Not renegotiating a loan when the borrower is unemployed and broke, means you soon will not see a penny. Killing the hen who lays the golden eggs.


This strange world is called reality.


P.S. This is not a mortgage. The Fourth Reich will not get a house back by saying no to Greece. It's more like killing the Euro and blaming it on Syriza (who BTW just got here 10 months ago to pick up the previous Greek governments and IMF's mess). Oh, and guess who's getting a nice fat paycheck either way?

 

[dismal]

Ok, since you don't understand compassion nor empathy, let's see it from a point of view you will understand -sheer greed:.

If you have nothing better to do than attack me personally perhaps you should just stop flailing about.

 

[Perspicuo]

Oh no, I know much of what is said here has been implanted into our brains by folks who are greedy. You'd be merely a repeating station (objective achieved).

In other news,

"It is as though my country were experiencing the consequences of war," he says. European savings policies have ruined Greece, he says: "We have lost a quarter of our gross domestic product and a quarter of our population is unemployed." Furthermore, he said, Greece didn't ask for emergency loans, they were forced upon the country together with the cost-cutting program. "Now we are paying with the blood of our people."

http://www.spiegel.de/international...-in-the-age-of-the-euro-crisis-a-1024714.html

 

[Derec]

The whole issue on Greece versus extreme Capitalist usury sinks its roots into the whole ethical dilemma of usury, not of interest charging, but of excessive lending with exploitative charging.

If this isn't changed, we will have defaults all over the place all the time. Just as borrowers ending up jobless requires readjustments, countries being hard-hit by recession and extraordinarily high unemployment, require adjustments for the same reason.

What is the interest rate on these Greek loans?
But if a person ends up homeless and wants a readjustment on their loans is it too much to expect for him to adjust his spending and downsize his lifestyle while he is unemployed?
Greece agreed to implement reforms in exchange for their last bailout. Syriza promptly canceled those reforms when it came into power and have in general taken a very belligerent attitude toward their creditors. Try talking like that to your bank (for example try calling them a bunch of Nazis) and see how far you get.

 

[4321lynx]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/usury?s=t

The whole issue on Greece versus extreme Capitalist usury sinks its roots into the whole ethical dilemma of usury, not of interest charging, but of excessive lending with exploitative charging.

If this isn't changed, we will have defaults all over the place all the time. Just as borrowers ending up jobless requires readjustments, countries being hard-hit by recession and extraordinarily high unemployment, require adjustments for the same reason.

You people inhabit a strange world of your own imagination. Lenders are taking haircuts and losing money on what they lent to Greece, and are being told to expect more losses as they are asked to put up more money.

Lending them money has been more akin to charity than anything that even slightly resembles usury.

More akin to stupidity or corruption I would say.

So the lenders wanted a profit, and if they did not lend to Greece, they had other options.

1. Did they lend to Greece because the interest rate there was better from lenders' point of view? Reflecting, in this way a higher risk?
2. Was that greed, miscalculation, stupidity or, quite likely, some corruption along the chain of lenders and decision makers?
3. Who should pay for the above boondoggle? The Greeks? They only asked for the money in the past. The lenders decided the risk was worth it, or made loans negligently or corruptly.
4. How long was this situation obvious to all whose life business is or should be the handling of money? Not untill it was obvious to even the public and the media? Seems unlikely. What did they do about it? Keep on lending?
5. With latest "gift" of Greek prime minister of concessions, the EU is probably right in ignoring it. Remember the old saying current at least since the original Trojan Horse? "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts."

The "Normal Business Methods" of an extended Pyramid Scheme of modern state economics, fiat money, and the devil take the hindmost sucker etc may be the most efficient, but it is as crooked as all get out with recessions predictable after a few years, every few years. Time to think up something better? Better checks and balances? No socialists/communists need app[ly. That has been tried and failed with great cost and loss of human lives. They will; tell you that was not real communism or socialism, ie the not "real Scotsmen" excuse. Ignore them. But some of their ideas are necessary and already applied by most developed (= civilised) nations/democracies. The USA need not apply yet, it is not civilised enough in spite of Obama's efforts.

 

[dismal]

Oh no, I know much of what is said here has been implanted into our brains by folks who are greedy. You'd be merely a repeating station (objective achieved).

In other news,

"It is as though my country were experiencing the consequences of war," he says. European savings policies have ruined Greece, he says: "We have lost a quarter of our gross domestic product and a quarter of our population is unemployed." Furthermore, he said, Greece didn't ask for emergency loans, they were forced upon the country together with the cost-cutting program. "Now we are paying with the blood of our people."

http://www.spiegel.de/international...-in-the-age-of-the-euro-crisis-a-1024714.html

Why don't you and your non greedy pals donate the money to Greece it needs? #nongreedyforGreeks

 

[Perspicuo]

The whole issue on Greece versus extreme Capitalist usury sinks its roots into the whole ethical dilemma of usury, not of interest charging, but of excessive lending with exploitative charging.

If this isn't changed, we will have defaults all over the place all the time. Just as borrowers ending up jobless requires readjustments, countries being hard-hit by recession and extraordinarily high unemployment, require adjustments for the same reason.

What is the interest rate on these Greek loans?
But if a person ends up homeless and wants a readjustment on their loans is it too much to expect for him to adjust his spending and downsize his lifestyle while he is unemployed?
Greece agreed to implement reforms in exchange for their last bailout. Syriza promptly canceled those reforms when it came into power and have in general taken a very belligerent attitude toward their creditors. Try talking like that to your bank (for example try calling them a bunch of Nazis) and see how far you get.

What outrage! Who would want to keep bread on the table instead of starving the children under austerity? I tell you the Greeks have no limits! Now let them eat dirt spyros, that'll fix it.

 

[barbos]

Ok, since you don't understand compassion nor empathy, let's see it from a point of view you will understand -sheer greed:

compassion? are greeks starving?
There are countries in EU who have it worse than greeks, not to mention in the world

 

[Perspicuo]

Ok, since you don't understand compassion nor empathy, let's see it from a point of view you will understand -sheer greed:

compassion? are greeks starving?
There are countries in EU who have it worse than greeks, not to mention in the world

No, just a quarter of them no longer can put food on the table. Let's watch them really beg when even less of those insatiable hogs can do it.

 

[Derec]

What outrage! Who would want to keep bread on the table instead of starving the children under austerity? I tell you the Greeks have no limits! Now let them eat dirt spyros, that'll fix it.

You didn't respond to any of my points.

 

[barbos]

compassion? are greeks starving?
There are countries in EU who have it worse than greeks, not to mention in the world

No, just a quarter of them no longer can put food on the table. Let's watch them really beg when even less of those insatiable hogs can do it.

unemployed!=starving.
and employed!=not starving.

 

[Axulus]

Are Greeks a superior race to the people in Eastern European countries in the EU? Are the people in the EU Eastern European countries starving?

Why should a much richer country continue to get billions in handouts for nothing in return while the Eastern Europeans in the EU slog through (a non-starving) life with a much lower standard of living?

 

[dismal]

compassion? are greeks starving?
There are countries in EU who have it worse than greeks, not to mention in the world

No, just a quarter of them no longer can put food on the table. Let's watch them really beg when even less of those insatiable hogs can do it.

How much of your own money have you given to Greece?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Ok, since you don't understand compassion nor empathy, let's see it from a point of view you will understand -sheer greed:

Not renegotiating a loan when the borrower is unemployed and broke, means you soon will not see a penny. Killing the hen who lays the golden eggs.


This strange world is called reality.


P.S. This is not a mortgage. The Fourth Reich will not get a house back by saying no to Greece. It's more like killing the Euro and blaming it on Syriza (who BTW just got here 10 months ago to pick up the previous Greek governments and IMF's mess). Oh, and guess who's getting a nice fat paycheck either way?

The problem is this goose lays rotten eggs. They are still unwilling to listen to reason about how they manage their social spending, until they get screwed by their misconduct there's no hope they'll reform.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Oh no, I know much of what is said here has been implanted into our brains by folks who are greedy. You'd be merely a repeating station (objective achieved).

In other news,

"It is as though my country were experiencing the consequences of war," he says. European savings policies have ruined Greece, he says: "We have lost a quarter of our gross domestic product and a quarter of our population is unemployed." Furthermore, he said, Greece didn't ask for emergency loans, they were forced upon the country together with the cost-cutting program. "Now we are paying with the blood of our people."

http://www.spiegel.de/international...-in-the-age-of-the-euro-crisis-a-1024714.html

Yeah, they didn't want emergency loans, they wanted business-as-usual loans. The markets have cried foul, there aren't any more business-as-usual loans.

A quarter of your population is unemployed because you were maintaining your popularity with bread and circuses and so many of them weren't really doing anything useful in the first place.