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“Revolution in Thought: A new look at determinism and free will"

Pg

If yiu go to a dozen psychiatrists and they all tell you that you are neurotic you might think there may be something to it. Or maybe you think they are all biased and againstt you.

Neurosis symptoms involve excessive worry, irrational fears, intrusive thoughts, irritability, low self-esteem, and difficulty handling stress, leading to emotional distress and impacting daily life, often seen in anxiety-based conditions like GAD, OCD, and phobias, where reality remains intact but reactions are exaggerated and disproportionate. Key signs include constant anxiety, guilt, anger, self-consciousness, seeking reassurance, poor stress response, and interpreting situations as more threatening than they are, causing significant emotional hardship and functional impairment.

By the way, I am having trouble with my efferent vision, can you recommend an efferent vision specialist?

My instant seeing is not working right. Maybe there are some eye drops for it.
 
Harsh punishment works when the consequence could be death
No, it observably doesn't.

Harsh punishment works ONLY when criminals expect to be caught; Criminals generally do NOT expect to be caught.
That is very true, and the worst of the worst will often murder to get what they want because they don't think they will get caught, and they are not deterred by the threat of prison or the death penalty.

“I am still not satisfied with the explanation. If it were not for the laws that protect society, what is to prevent man from taking more easily what he wants when the risk of retaliation is no more a condition to be considered? Further, what is to stop him from satisfying his desires to his heart’s content when he knows there will be no consequences or explanations necessary? In the previous example, it is obvious that the boy who spilled the milk cannot desire to shift the blame when he knows his parents are not going to question what he did, but why should this prevent him from spilling the milk every day if it gives him a certain satisfaction to watch it seep into the rug? Besides, if the father just spent $1000 for carpeting, how is it humanly possible for him to say absolutely nothing when the milk was not carelessly but deliberately spilled?”

“This is a thoughtful question, but it is like asking if it is mathematically impossible for man to do something, what would you do if it is done? How is it possible for the father to be hurt by an intentional act, as in the previous example, when this behavior would never be a source of satisfaction? Contained in this question is an assumption that deliberate hurt will continue. As we proceed with the investigation, you will understand more clearly why this deliberate hurt to others will be prevented by the basic principle.”

“Even though I cannot disagree with anything you said so far, I still don’t understand how or why this should prevent man from stealing more easily what he wants when the risk of retaliation is no more a condition to be considered, and how is it humanly possible for those he steals from and hurts in other ways to excuse his conduct?”

“We are right back where we were before, the fiery dragon — but not for long. Now tell me, would you agree that if I did something to hurt you, you would be justified to retaliate?”

“I certainly would be justified.”

“And we have also agreed that this is the principle of ‘an eye for an eye,’ correct?”

“Correct.”

“Which means that this principle, ‘an eye for an eye,’ does not concern itself with preventing the first blow from being struck but only with justifying punishment or retaliation; is this also true?”

“Yes, it is.”

“And the principle of turning the other cheek — doesn’t this concern itself with preventing the second cheek from being struck, not the first cheek?”

“That is absolutely true.”

“Therefore, our only concern is preventing the desire to strike this first blow, for if this can be accomplished, our problem is solved. If the first cheek is not struck, there is no need to retaliate or turn the other side of our face. Is this hard to understand?”

“It’s very easy, in fact. I am not a college graduate, and I can even see that relation.”

“Let us further understand that in order for you to strike this first blow of hurt, assuming that what is and what is not a hurt has already been established (don’t jump to conclusions), you would have to be taking a certain amount of risk, that is, you would be risking the possibility of retaliation or punishment, is that correct?”

“Not if I planned a perfect crime.”

“The most you can do with your plans is reduce the element of risk, but the fact that somebody was hurt by what you did does not take away his desire to strike a blow of retaliation. He doesn’t know who to blame, but if he did, you could expect that he would desire to strike back. Consequently, his desire to retaliate ‘an eye for an eye’ is an undeniable condition of our present world, as is also your awareness that there is this element of risk involved, however small. This means that whenever you do anything at all that is risky, you are prepared to pay a price for the satisfaction of certain desires. You may risk going to jail, getting hanged or electrocuted, shot, beaten up, losing your eye and tooth, being criticized, reprimanded, spanked, scolded, ostracized, or what have you, but this is the price you are willing to pay, if caught. Can you disagree with this?”

“I still say, supposing there is no risk; supposing I was able to plan a perfect crime and never get caught?”

“I am not denying the possibility, but you can never know for certain; therefore, the element of risk must exist when you do anything that hurts another.”

“Then I agree.”

“Now that we have a basic understanding as to why man’s will is not free because it is his nature that he must always move in the direction of greater satisfaction, as well as the undeniable fact that nothing can make man do to another what he makes up his mind not to do — for over this he has absolute control — let us observe what miracle happens when these two laws are brought together to reveal a third law. Pay close attention because I am about to slay the fiery dragon with my trusty sword, which will reveal my discovery, reconcile the two opposite principles, ‘an eye for an eye’ and ‘turn the other cheek,’ and open the door to this new world.”

When criminals have a high expectation of being caught, even fairly mild punishments work just as well as harsh ones.

Disproportionately harsh punishments make crime worse, because criminals are more prepared to escalate, when their crimes are already sufficient to lead to their execution - what little deterrent effect there might be is eliminated. If I am going to be hanged for stealing a loaf of bread, why would I resile from killing the baker in the process? They can't hang me twice, and if he's left alive, he might identify me - better to be safe, and cut his throat.
Sure, they already feel they've got nothing to lose.
None of the countries in your linked article have eradicated crime, nor even eradicated a particular type of crime (Singapore still has an illegal drug trade, for example, though of course the dealers are highly cautious).
That is true. That is why I hope you hear a different way to prevent crime because Lessans' answer is not with more punishment. Threats of punishment have, at best, been a partial deterrent but it doesn't always stop the hardened criminal.
 
Pg

If yiu go to a dozen psychiatrists and they all tell you that you are neurotic you might think there may be something to it. Or maybe you think they are all biased and againstt you.
No, I'm not neurotic, but a psychiatrist may think I'm psychotic if I tell him I have a discovery that can change the world. He might think I have delusions of grandiosity and want to put me on meds! :LD:
Neurosis symptoms involve excessive worry, irrational fears, intrusive thoughts, irritability, low self-esteem, and difficulty handling stress, leading to emotional distress and impacting daily life, often seen in anxiety-based conditions like GAD, OCD, and phobias, where reality remains intact but reactions are exaggerated and disproportionate. Key signs include constant anxiety, guilt, anger, self-consciousness, seeking reassurance, poor stress response, and interpreting situations as more threatening than they are, causing significant emotional hardship and functional impairment.

By the way, I am having trouble with my efferent vision, can you recommend an efferent vision specialist?

My instant seeing is not working right. Maybe there are some eye drops for it.
You're funny! Truly, there is nothing about how the eyes work other than the direction we see, so your vision specialist wouldn't know what you're talking about because there is nothing that can be seen by a specialist (even with all his instruments, which are amazing) that would give him this information. The information was given to the author indirectly.
 
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It's about the removal of all authority figures that tell anyone what to do.
So, when he says "I will explain shortly", he is planning NOT to tell people what to do?
Are you joking? He said his explanation regarding death would come later. He didn't want to go off on a tangent. He wanted to stay on point.
That would explain why you refuse to provide any details, if they simply don't exist. ;)
Bilby, I really hope you give him the benefit of the doubt. Your wink gives me hope. ;)
 
Uhhh...I debunked his example of seeing lips move on the moon frmo Earth versus voice by radio.
You would see his lips move before hearing his voice on a radio.

Nope. Wrong.

Do you not know that radio is light?
I know that radio waves are light. This wouldn't be a good experiment because no one can see astronauts that close where they could see their lips move. It was another hypothetical example.
If you are watching the Moon you see its position as it was about three seconds in the past.
Why are you repeating the very thing being disputed?

Cuz it is correct.
That's a non-answer.
Over three sends it takes reflected Sunlight to reach the Earth the Earth has rotated, the Moon has moved in its orbit, and the Earth has moved in its orbit.

Any objections?
If the image is not in the light, it doesn't matter if the Earth has rotated, or the Moon has moved in its orbit, because we are not seeing a delayed image in the light (if he is right).

Nobody ever said the “image is in the light.” This has been explained to you uncountable numbers of times.
I have explained countless times that the light is not bringing the image (the object's reflection) to the retina through space/time. There is no other way to explain the concept without using the word "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" which anyone would understand if they wanted to.
The word above was a perfect example of nonsense because it had no definition. It was pure gibberish, which was the point of the song. :)




FTFY.


People can't just understand nonsense, if only they want to hard enough. Language doesn't work like that.
First of all, it's not nonsense. You just can't wrap your head around what appears to be logically impossible. But it isn't impossible.
Secondly, the language he used was not some nonsensical word. It was a word to describe the direction we see. Efferent is a going out, and afferent is a going in. That's all he needed to get his point across, but of course, you're making too much out of it. Dictionaries change all the time due to words that come into existence when there is a new concept, and words go out of style when they don't work anymore.
 
They reasoned that since it takes longer for the sound from an airplane to reach us when 15,000 feet away than when 5000; and since it takes longer for light to reach us the farther it is away when starting its journey, light and sound must function alike in other respects
Literally nobody reasoned this. "They" are a figment of his imagination, and this is a classic strawman logical fallacy.
That has been the logic that gave people the belief that the eyes were a sense organ like the other true sense organs. It made sense, but it turned out to be 100% wrong! 🫤

It’s not wrong. You and your author are wrong.

But you will go to your grave believing in this nonsense, because it makes you feel good I guess.
 
Solar flares are hard to see, even with telescopes. This phenomenon does not prove that we see in delayed time.

Observing solar flares with a telescope is not hard
Are you really citing a source that directly contradicts you??

Of course you are. Contradictions mean nothing to you, you just ignore them, as you ignore everything that could in any way challenge your incoherent beliefs.
Where is the contradiction?

Observing a solar flare directly with a telescope is possible but challenging and requires specialized solar filters or hydrogen-alpha equipment to do so safely.

Safety​

Directly viewing the Sun without proper protection can cause permanent eye damage or blindness. Standard telescopes or binoculars magnify sunlight, making it extremely dangerous to look at the Sun without a certified solar filter that blocks over 99% of sunlight. Only filters designed for solar observation, such as Mylar, coated glass, or hydrogen-alpha filters, are safe for this purpose.

cosmobc.com+3
 
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I feel very sad about the news of Nancy Guthrie's kidnapping. The reason this is so disturbing to me is that the motivation to do this crime could never occur in the new world. :cry:

Diversity in makeup, character, personality, thought and response ensures that in practically any situation someone will do or say something wrong. Take this thread as an example.
What do you mean by "take this thread as an example?" Wrong is not the issue, DBT. Besides, no one has proven him wrong. Not one person. Pood is getting very nasty, and he's got everyone here to back him up. This is his MO in his effort to ruin this author. It's happening all over again. People can listen to this imposter all they want. They can hate me. They can call me names. They can make jokes at my expense. But it doesn't change anything because they haven't understood why the eyes cannot be a sense organ, according to his observations.

'Take this thread as an example'' relates to the conflict that arising from disagreement. People do not agree with the claim of instant seeing, which creates a division between you and the claims you endorse and all of those who do not agree.
This kind of conflict is not the kind that would be on the evening news. This law of our nature prevents the serious hurt to others that our present laws are trying to prevent, without great success.
Division and conflict come in many forms, some may be mild, mere friction, while other forms may lead to violence.
Let's not think about minor forms of friction for now. Let's get to the nitty-gritty of the kind of conflict that turns into violence, which often ends lives. That is my focus.
What we have here is mild, yet there is a conflict between the claims being made and the rejection of them.

In this instance, the rejection is justified. The claims do not represent how the world works.
You think that the claims don't represent how the world works, and our thoughts about this differ. But we are acting civilized for the most part, and no one is going to go to war and die, which, again, is what this knowledge prevents when the principles are put into practice.
 
The thing is, his ideas are not only NOT crazy... they are true, due to his astute observations and meticulous reasoning that led him to his discoveries.
Then you should have no problem summarising them and providing a step by step method for anyone to use to reproduce his observations for themselves. This can be done for any true proposition, or even that is potentially true but not yet demonstrated.
I already mentioned that once the principles are put into effect, people will be able to see for themselves that they work. But the new world is not here, and the environment is not set up where someone can reproduce Lessans' observations for themselves. People could create a simulation of this type of environment to see if it works on a smaller scale.
And yet <crickets>

Or worse, huge blocks of text that do not contain anything of the kind, presented as though they were a viable substitute for a step by step method for anyone to use to reproduce his observations for themselves. (Hint: There are no substitutes).
His entire demonstration was written in a step-by-step fashion to prevent the very thing you don't like. To break it down further would never do it justice, yet I'm going against my own judgment when I post excerpts that are out of sequence, trying to answer questions that would have been answered had the first three chapters been read in the right order.

This discovery will be presented in a step-by-step fashion that brooks no opposition. Your awareness of this matter will preclude the possibility of someone adducing his rank, title, affiliation, or the long tenure of an accepted belief as a standard from which he thinks he qualifies to disagree with knowledge that contains within itself undeniable proof of its veracity. In other words, your background, the color of your skin, your religion, the number of years you went to school, how many titles you hold, your IQ, your country, what you do for a living, your being some kind of expert like Nageli (or anything else you care to throw in) has no relation whatsoever to the undeniable knowledge that 3 is to 6 what 4 is to 8. So please don’t be too hasty in using what you have been taught as a standard to judge what has not even been revealed to you yet.
 
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Pg

My guess is our trying to reconcile the contraction between physics and the book is part of what is creating your stress and frustration.

It is our fault we don't get it, is not yours or the author's fault. We are biased not you. So on and so forth.
It is unfortunate because once people don't believe a claim is true, they make a quick determination that the book has no value. It's no one's fault. I just hope people stay interested because they may soon realize they were premature in the way they judged. As far as the senses, his observations were spot on. You cannot look to astronomy to prove him wrong. You have to look at his observations and reasoning to see if they hold up to scrutiny. If they turn out to be correct, then scientists will have to reevaluate their claim that we see in delayed time.
 
I contacted Clark, but he quickly cut me off and said to go to his thread and post there. He had no desire to hear what I had to say. It's so sad because the ego gets in the way people keep realizing that I am a crank with nothing useful (or even coherent) to contribute.
FTFY.

Your problems in getting your ideas accepted are not problems with other people or their egos; They are problems with your ideas, which are observably and obviously not true.
Not true.
Yes indeed, and observably and obviously so.
He wasn't interested in listening to some stranger on the phone telling him about a discovery he never heard of.
Nor would I be.
It might have been a three-minute call.
Then he was a lot more tolerant of random strangers calling him out of the blue than I would be.
 
Actually, his last book was called This is An Urgent Message From a Visitor To Your Planet, because he thought it might go over better by being an alien who came to help the Earthlings.
And he was wrong about that, too, we observe.
Do you think I'm saying he couldn't ever be wrong? No, that's not what I'm saying. I am saying that he wasn't wrong regarding his observations and reasoning that led him to his major discovery, and it IS major if it can do what he says.
If it can do what he says, then:
a) Why hasn't it already done what he says (if it requires widespread acceptance, it's dead on arrival - humanity doesn't work like that and nor does reality); and
b) Why do you refuse to summarise his observations in a concise and accurate format, so that anyone can reproduce them?

He is clearly wrong in some of his assertions, which he appears to use as premises (though it's difficult to say, as everything is buried in long-winded pseudo-dialogues whose purpose seems more to conceal than to reveal).

His 'reasoning' simply isn't. It's like you mesn something completely other by the word than what everyone else does.

And neither you nor he seem to be using the words 'observation' or 'discovery' in any more orthodox fashion, either.
 
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Pg

Pick a few major schools. Send an email to the philosophy department and say your deceased father wrote a philosophy book and you would appreciate it if someone would review it.

Maybe a PHD student. If you can afford offer a fee for a written review.

I have sent questions to schools in the past, most recently the University of Washington climate science deportment a few years ago. I posted responses on the science forum.

The forum here is informal. You have dismissed academia but they are the ones who can give you a revue,
I did try that years ago. I never could actually talk to a professor. I made a concerted effort with a blurb about the reason for my email. Some thought it was spam. I could try it again. It's a good idea. I could also try to reach philosophers interested in this topic on academia.edu. It is just very hard when so many people are competing with their own ideas for them to want to take the time to understand this book, which is a true treasure.
 
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Actually, his last book was called This is An Urgent Message From a Visitor To Your Planet, because he thought it might go over better by being an alien who came to help the Earthlings.
And he was wrong about that, too, we observe.
Do you think I'm saying he couldn't ever be wrong? No, that's not what I'm saying. I am saying that he wasn't wrong regarding his observations and reasoning that led him to his major discovery, and it IS major if it can do what he says.
And tat major concision is what?

Dterminism will get arid of war and suffering?
No Steve, it is the gateway that leads to the discovery. It is what lies behind the door of determinism that will get rid of war and suffering.

Because Spinoza was dissatisfied with theology’s explanation of good and evil, he opened the door of determinism and looked around quite a bit, but he did not know how to slay the fiery dragon (the great impasse of blame), so he pretended it wasn’t even there. He stated, “We are men, not God. Evil is really not evil when seen in total perspective,” and he rejected the principle of an eye for an eye. Will Durant, not at all satisfied with this aspect of Spinoza’s philosophy, although he loved him dearly, could not understand how it was humanly possible to turn the other cheek in this kind of world. He also went in and looked around very thoroughly, and he too saw the fiery dragon, but unlike Spinoza, he made no pretense of its nonexistence. He just didn’t know how to overcome the beast but refused to agree with what common sense told him to deny. The implications really need no further clarification as to why free will is in power. Nobody, including Spinoza and other philosophers, ever discovered what it meant that man’s will is not free because they never unlocked the second door, which led to my discovery. The belief in free will was compelled to remain in power until the present time because no one had conclusive proof that determinism was true, nor could anyone slay the fiery dragon, which seemed like an impossible feat. Is it any wonder that Johnston didn’t want to get into this matter any further? Is it any wonder Durant never went beyond the vestibule? Are you beginning to recognize why it has been so difficult to get this knowledge thoroughly investigated?
 
In our present world of free will, it is not difficult to imagine what would happen if suddenly all laws, government, and forms of punishment were withdrawn. Every potential thief and even those who never thought about stealing would have a field day, and nobody would be safe. Sectarian violence would increase, causing extreme chaos and destruction. We can only begin to imagine what an aggressive country would do if there were no other powers to control the desire to spread whatever that country desired to spread. But the moment mankind understands what it means that will is not free, which prevents the very things for which government came into existence, it proves, beyond a shadow of doubt, the reality of God — this amazing mathematical power. Everything was timed so perfectly that you must catch your breath in absolute amazement when you contemplate the magnificence of this mathematical equation, which includes not only the solar system and the exquisite relationship that exists between the planets, but man himself and all the evil and ignorance that ever existed.
In our present world of free will...
OK, I agree for the sake of argument, will is presently free. What can we conclude, starting with this premise?
No bilby, will cannot be free, and there is no pretending that it is. But because no one understood why will is not free and what it could do to help us by extending the corollary, we are stuck using the only thing we can to prevent what we don't want: blame and punishment.

In the beginning of creation, when man was in the early stages of development, he could have destroyed himself were there no forces to control his nature.
Every single part of this is incorrect. The beginning of creation was billions of years before any man developed at all. And the idea that authoritarian control was necessary for the survival of early humans is a bald assertion that is almost certainly untrue.
Religion came to the rescue by helping explain the reason for such evil in the world.
Religion explains nothing, and isn't a monobloc anyway - there are myriad religions, all wrong, all valuable only as ways to manipulate other people into acting against their own interests.
It gave those who had faith a sense of comfort, hope, and the fortitude to go on living.
There is no evidence whatsoever for this claim.
Despite everything, it was a bright light in the story of civilization.
There is no evidence whatsoever for this claim, either.
However, to reach this stage of development so God could reveal Himself to all mankind by performing this deliverance from evil,
This not only hasn't occurred, and not only cannot occur, but also contradicts your claim that he only uses God as a metaphor.
it was absolutely necessary to get man to believe his will was free,
There is no evidence whatsoever for this claim.
and he believed in this theory, whether consciously or unconsciously.
There is no evidence whatsoever for this claim.
It became a dogma, a dogmatic doctrine of all religion, was the cornerstone of all civilization, and the only reason man was able to develop.
There is no evidence whatsoever for this claim.
The belief in free will was compelled to come about as a corollary of evil,
There is no evidence whatsoever for this claim.
for not only was it impossible to hold God responsible for man’s deliberate crimes, but primarily because it was impossible for man to solve his problems without blame and punishment, which required the justification of this belief in order to absolve his conscience. Therefore, it was assumed that man did not have to do what he did because he was endowed with a special faculty that allowed him to choose between good and evil.

In other words, if you were called upon to pass judgment on someone by sentencing him to death, could you do it if you knew his will was not free?
This is the logical fallacy of begging the question. He has not established that man's will is not free.

It also entails a contradiction. If man's will is not free, then the question "could you do it?" ceases to be meaningful.
To punish him in any way, you would have to believe that he was free to choose another alternative than the one for which he was being judged;
To pass judgement in any way, you would have to have free will yourself. If you don't, you are not judging anything, you are just going through the motions.
that he was not compelled by laws over which he had no control. Man was given no choice but to think this way, and that is why our civilization developed the principle of ‘an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth’ and why my discovery was never found.
These unsupported assertions are becoming tiresome. He clearly lacks the imagination to grasp that his readers might not already agree with him.
No one could ever get beyond this point because if man’s will is not free, it becomes absolutely impossible to hold him responsible for anything he does.
No, it doesn't. It might become unfair, or unjust, or unreasonable - but it's certainly still possible. Unfairness, injustice, and unreasonableness are commonplace and banal; We see them literally everywhere.
Well, is it any wonder the solution was never found if it lies beyond this point? How is it possible not to blame people for committing murder, rape, for stealing and the wholesale slaughter of millions?
Quite easily. Billions of people do exactly that every single day. Usually religion, tribalism, patriotism, or sycophancy are directly involved.
Does this mean that we are supposed to condone these evils, and wouldn’t man become even less responsible if there were no laws of punishment to control his nature?
It's hard to see how man could become any less responsible. We are ignoble selfish apes, most of whom lack the intelligence and imagination to avoid stuffing up our own environment, in pursuit of short term benefits.
Doesn’t our history show that if something is desired badly enough, he will go to any lengths to satisfy himself, even pounce down on other nations with talons or tons of steel?
Yup.
What is it that prevents the poor from walking into stores and taking what they need if not the fear of punishment?
Locks. Security guards. Conditioning. Probably a bunch of others. If he's going to ask rhetorical questions effectively, he's going to need to be less naïve (or to only adress audiences that are even more unimaginative than he clearly is).
The belief that will is not free strikes at the very heart of our present civilization.
There is no evidence whatsoever for this claim.
Right at this point lies the crux of a problem so difficult of solution that it has kept free will in power since time immemorial.
Yet some guy who can't imagine a locked door is going to solve it for us?
Although it has had a very long reign in the history of civilization, it is now time to put it to rest, once and for all, by first demonstrating that this theory can never be proven true.
No theory can ever be proven true. All he is doing here is showing that he does't know what a theory is, nor proof, nor truth.
...will is not free,
CONTRADICTION DETECTED - LOGIC FAIL - WRITER CANNOT BE CORRECT

Oh well. That wraps up the thread then.
No contradiction at all.
Sure there is. He declares both that will is not free, and that we currently live in an age of free will.

Even if we take the charitable approach of assuming that when he says "In our present world of free will...", he doesn't actually mean what he plainly says, and is instead employing clumsy rhetoric to say something like "The world is presently almost universally mistaken in our belief that will is free", then it follows that this situation cannot be changed, unless he is wrong and we have the freedom to will it to change.

Not that such charity is deserved; If any of this were actually useful and important, he is derelict in his duty to mankind if he isn't clear and accurate in communicating it.
 
They reasoned that since it takes longer for the sound from an airplane to reach us when 15,000 feet away than when 5000; and since it takes longer for light to reach us the farther it is away when starting its journey, light and sound must function alike in other respects
Literally nobody reasoned this. "They" are a figment of his imagination, and this is a classic strawman logical fallacy.
That has been the logic that gave people the belief that the eyes were a sense organ like the other true sense organs.
No, it's not.
It made sense,
No, it doesn't.
but it turned out to be 100% wrong! 🫤
Yes, it is. That's why:
Literally nobody reasoned this. "They" are a figment of his imagination, and this is a classic strawman logical fallacy.
If you want to understand why someone believes something, and what reasoning they used to get to that belief, then you need to ask them.

If you just invent a story about them that you can readily discredit, then you are not only engaging in the strawman fallacy, but also being extremely insulting.
 
@peacegirl, we do not see in real time. We cannot see in real time. It violates every principle of physics, starting with Einstein’s relativity, which could never have been formulated if we saw in real time.

In fact, nothing could have been formulated if real-time seeing were true, since nobody would be around to formulate anything. If instant seeing were correct, the entire night sky would be white, and the surface temperature of the earth would be the same as the sun. This has also been explained to you. We cannot see a vast, even infinite, number of stars because their light has not gotten to us yet, and most of the light will never get to us because of the expansion of the universe.

Actually, this isn’t quite true. A lot of starlight is red-shifted out of the visible spectrum because of universal expansion. But it’s close enough.

Stand outside just before dawn. Take a neighbor with you.

When the sun rises, what do you see?

If your writer were correct, we would see the sun rising for 8,5 minutes before the ground or the neighbor were lighted up. But that is not what we see. You can test this for yourself.
 
Objects reflect light, but not in the way you think.
You don't seem to have a good grasp on what you purport to think, so understanding what I (or anyone else) thinks may be a touch overambitious for you.
Light travels, there is no argument here,
Good.
but if the eyes are a sense organ,
They are. And I am glad to see that you are beginning to consider the possibility.
they don't see the past. They see the present.
Time is not absolute; There is no "The present", because there are no preferred reference frames.

An individual observer sees only what is in her past; This is an unavoidable consequence of the fact that information cannot travel faster than lightspeed.

If it did, we could use that fact to determine what was going to happen in our future. Which we observably can't.

An observer can detect only those events in her past lightcone, and influence only those events in her future lightcone.

View attachment 53643
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_cone

The entire hypersurface of any observer's present is inaccessable; We cannot see the present, only the past.

Distance and time are relative. All observers measure the speed of light in a vacuum to be a constant, regardless of how they move relative to each other.

This idea is as bizarre and as counterintuitive as your idea that vision is instant, but differs from your idea in that it can be demonstrated to be true.

Crazy ideas are not a problem for science and technology. We can and do profit from them. But only if they are true, which your crazy idea is not.

View attachment 53642
https://xkcd.com/808
Why did you use this chart by implying my father’s ideas fit into no proven crazy thinking that have no scientific backup?
That's not a coherent question in the English language. I didn't (and physically can't) use anything by implying something.
It actually does.
But if it was, that wouldn't be a comprehensible response. A question that starts "Why did you...?" can't have "It actually does" as its answer.
He, nor I, subscribed to alternative therapies that are not scientific and could actually cause harm,
Do you mean "Neither he, nor I..."?

Anyway, your restriction of your denial to "therapies" speaks volumes about your inability to claim an absence of other unscientific and harmful beliefs. We already have a thread in which you pursue your unscientific and harmful belief that vaccines are potentially dangerous, and that epidemiology should be a matter of parental choice.
so stop putting his ideas into a false classification!
His ideas are false. That's the correct classification for them.

I don't watch online videos. If you believe that that one says anything relevant or important, you will need to summarise it for me, or accept that I will never know what it says.
 
You would like this chapter because you will see it's not the end when we die,
It is the end of me. Nobody thinks it's the end of anything else.
and that is very comforting!
No, it's not. There's no more comfort in being alive, but with no recollection of my current life, than there is in being dead and gone.

If anyone finds the idea comforting, then they really haven't thought it through.
 
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