porn addiction isn't a thing

[DrZoidberg]

Here's an interesting article about porn addiction with a surprising finding.

Porn addiction only seems to be a problem among the religious. Instead of treating the porn addiction, we should perhaps treat them for their religion. Not to be glib, but belief in God is undoubtedly a delusion. And we don't seem to have any problems with treating people who believe they're Napoleon or Abraham Lincoln for it.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/int...ed-believing-in-porn-addiction-you-should-too

Anyhoo... that's not what the article suggests. Instead it suggests treating them for their moral hang-ups about porn. Once those are gone they have less of a problem with stopping watching it. The perceived immorality of watching porn is what creates the obsessive porn watching behaviour.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yup. "Porn addiction" is really a relationship issue. They're not hooked on porn, they're seeing it as easier than their partner.


A simple test: Deny an "addict" the object of their "addiction." Do bad things happen? No--it wasn't an addiction.

 

[phands]

Not surprising at all....in the US, porn addiction isn't in DSM....yet....but a few compulsive sexual behaviors are in the ICD....

Other Diagnostic Manuals

It is also important to note that although the DSM is seen as authoritative within the United States, there are other diagnostic manuals seen as more trustworthy internationally. For instance, the International Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD), is the international “standard diagnostic tool for epidemiology, health management and clinical purposes.” The ICD is maintained by the World Health Organization (WHO), the coordinating authority for health within the United Nations System—and is the most widely used classification of mental disorders worldwide. [7]
Compared to the unusual, ongoing resistance to acknowledging compulsive sexual problems in the DSM, the upcoming version of the ICD proposes a diagnosis for “Compulsive Sexual Behavior Disorder,” which includes pornography issues. [8] As veteran psychiatrist Richard Krueger, MD, recently pointed out,
“Diagnoses that could refer to compulsive sexual behavior” (if not outright classify them as stand-alone entities) have been included in both diagnostic manuals for years and “can now be diagnosed legitimately in the United States using both DSM-5 and the recently mandated ICD-10 diagnostic coding.” [9]
Several diagnostic codes to describe compulsive sexual behavior are in the ICD-10 and they have existed in the DSM since 1980. [10] Chapters on the neurobiology of sex and pornography addiction are also now appearing in updated psychiatry textbooks written by and for physicians. [11]
Clearly, the international medical field is moving in the direction of the preponderance of the neuroscience and other evidence—the facts can no longer be ignored. Doubt about the validity of pornography addiction as a risk for some users is rapidly fading, despite efforts to convince people otherwise.
So, many experts will tell you that the real answer to the question, “Is porn addiction in the DSM?” is not “no”—it is “not yet.”

https://fightthenewdrug.org/why-isnt-pornography-addiction-an-official-diagnosis/

 

[DrZoidberg]

Not surprising at all....in the US, porn addiction isn't in DSM....yet....but a few compulsive sexual behaviors are in the ICD....

Other Diagnostic Manuals

It is also important to note that although the DSM is seen as authoritative within the United States, there are other diagnostic manuals seen as more trustworthy internationally. For instance, the International Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD), is the international “standard diagnostic tool for epidemiology, health management and clinical purposes.” The ICD is maintained by the World Health Organization (WHO), the coordinating authority for health within the United Nations System—and is the most widely used classification of mental disorders worldwide. [7]
Compared to the unusual, ongoing resistance to acknowledging compulsive sexual problems in the DSM, the upcoming version of the ICD proposes a diagnosis for “Compulsive Sexual Behavior Disorder,” which includes pornography issues. [8] As veteran psychiatrist Richard Krueger, MD, recently pointed out,
“Diagnoses that could refer to compulsive sexual behavior” (if not outright classify them as stand-alone entities) have been included in both diagnostic manuals for years and “can now be diagnosed legitimately in the United States using both DSM-5 and the recently mandated ICD-10 diagnostic coding.” [9]
Several diagnostic codes to describe compulsive sexual behavior are in the ICD-10 and they have existed in the DSM since 1980. [10] Chapters on the neurobiology of sex and pornography addiction are also now appearing in updated psychiatry textbooks written by and for physicians. [11]
Clearly, the international medical field is moving in the direction of the preponderance of the neuroscience and other evidence—the facts can no longer be ignored. Doubt about the validity of pornography addiction as a risk for some users is rapidly fading, despite efforts to convince people otherwise.
So, many experts will tell you that the real answer to the question, “Is porn addiction in the DSM?” is not “no”—it is “not yet.”

https://fightthenewdrug.org/why-isnt-pornography-addiction-an-official-diagnosis/

I think what the study in the OP meant is that OCD can be pretty much anything. That it's just confusing to make it into a separate category. And feeling that you have a problem with porn addiction is more accurately a problem about your religion telling you that a normal behaviour isn't.

 

[DrZoidberg]

But I'm not implying that watching porn is normal or natural. The all perversive access we have to porn today, is a post-Internet phenomena. You don't need to be bold to make the assertion that evolution has yet to catch up.

The contention isn't that watching porn is normal, but rather that it doesn't lead to addictive behaviour. If you have an addictive behaviour around pornography, the pornography is not the problem. It can be a symptom of other things being a problem.

 

[OLDMAN]

It is a stress reliever, not much else. It has been around long before the internet..lol. Try to enjoy yourselves for fucks sake.

 

[excreationist]

Well I think I have given up on porn permanently.
A related video:

I told my married friend but he said he didn't think there was anything wrong with porn.
BTW I believe in Robert Glover's concept of "healthy masturbation" which means not having any fantasies while masturbating - though now I rarely masturbate.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Well I think I have given up on porn permanently.
A related video:

I told my married friend but he said he didn't think there was anything wrong with porn.
BTW I believe in Robert Glover's concept of "healthy masturbation" which means not having any fantasies while masturbating - though now I rarely masturbate.

I dislike our cultures obsession with celebrities. Terry Crews is not an expert in this field. If he'd been talking about acting. That's one thing. But he's not. He's just a guy. Data point of one. Which is nice. But shouldn't be a reason to take him seriously. There's even experts who are full of shit. If we want to overcome clinicly relevent conditions we want information from the top of the (relevant) academic pyramid. Not guys famous for his portrayal of a future president of USA.

But more importantly Terry Crews is a professional actor/celebrity. He makes his living from getting attention and generating attention. Which should make us skeptical of anything he says. Unless his fame and attention has been generated from his work on porn addiction, it's our duty to not pay attention to this.

Celebrities today pervert and skew what our attention goes to. Faith in science is already catastrophically low. The last thing we need is celebrities telling us about the latest new treatment. We really don't need more companies founded by Gwyneth Paltrow, selling us bullshit.

I'm off my soap box now

 

[excreationist]

@DrZoidberg
An expert I'd recommend is Dr Robert Glover who wrote "No More Mr Niceguy". I just included the Terry Crews video because I just came across it and I liked the testimony of him giving up porn. Anyway some quotes:

A Note About Pornography.
I am not opposed to pornography legally or morally, but I think it is bad for men for several reasons:
Pornography creates unrealistic expectations of what people should like and what sex
should be like.
Pornography addicts men to bodies and body parts.
Pornography can easily become a substitute for a real sexual relationship.
Pornography creates a trance in which men can be sexual while staying distracted from
their shame and fear.
Pornography compounds shame because it is usually hidden and used in secret.
I tell Nice Guys, if you are going to use pornography, do it openly. Doing so tends to break the
trance and takes the buzz out of it.

A Note About Fantasy
Fantasy is a form of dissociation — the process of separating one's body from one's mind. When a
person fantasizes while being sexual he is purposefully and actively leaving his body. While some
sex therapists advocate fantasy as a way of improving a sex life, it is actually the best way I know
to kill it. Fantasizing during sex makes about as much sense as thinking about a Big Mac while
eating a gourmet meal. About the only thing fantasy accomplishes is to distract a person from his
shame and fear or cover up the fact that he is having bad sex.

Before Nice Guys can have exciting, passionate, and fulfilling sexual experiences with other people,
they must learn how to have the same with themselves. By taking matters into their own hands — by
practicing healthy masturbation — recovering Nice Guys can change the most basic dynamics that
shape the bigger picture of how they do sex.
Consider the logic:
Until a Nice Guy can be sexual with himself without shame, he won't be able to be sexual with
another person without shame.
Until a Nice Guy is comfortable giving pleasure to himself, he won't be able to receive pleasure
from someone else.
Until a Nice Guy can take responsibility for his own arousal and pleasure when he is by himself,
he won't be able to take responsibility for his own arousal and pleasure when is with someone
else.
Until a Nice Guy can be sexual with himself without using pornography or fantasy to distract
himself, he won't be able to have sex with someone else without needing similar things to distract
him.
Nice Guys can begin to change these dynamics by practicing what I call healthy masturbation. Healthy
masturbation is a process of letting sexual energy unfold. It has no goal or destination. It's not just about
orgasms. It does not require outside stimulation from pornography and doesn't use trances or fantasy to
stay distracted from shame and fear. It is about learning to pay attention to what feels good. Most of all,
it is about accepting sole responsibility for one's sexual pleasure and expression.
Many Nice Guys are initially uncomfortable with the discussion of healthy masturbation. The concept
seems like an oxymoron. In general, Nice Guys have tremendous internalized shame around
masturbation. They also frequently surround themselves with people who reinforce this shame (partner,
religion, etc.). Many Nice Guys also struggle with compulsive masturbation. They fear that attempting
any kind of self-gratification might open up Pandora's Box.
I have found that when recovering Nice Guys work on learning how to pleasure themselves without
using fantasy or pornography there is no way for their behavior to become compulsive. I have also found
that when they share the experience with other non-judgmental men, their shame diminishes rapidly.

I also found this interesting:

I have found Nice Guys to be prone to hidden, compulsive sexual behavior. I have developed a theory
that states, the nicer the guy, the darker the sexual secrets. I find this to be consistently true. Sex is a
basic human drive. Because most Nice Guys believe they are bad for being sexual, or believe that other
people will think they are bad, sexual impulses have to be kept hidden from view. The Nice Guy's
sexuality doesn't go away, it just goes underground. Therefore, the more dependent a man is on external
approval, the deeper he is going to have to hide his sexual behavior

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Regardless doing anything too much can be harmful. Even I would feel gross watching porn all day or half of the day.

 

[TomC]

Regardless doing anything too much can be harmful. Even I would feel gross watching porn all day or half of the day.

So much this.
Like lots of stuff, it's a matter of degree. I always have a couple cups of coffee in the morning. After that, I avoid caffeine the rest of the day. But I damn well better get my morning java or everyone around me will wish I had.
Tom

ETA ~Sometimes I watch a porn video while having my coffee. At my stage of life it's more like reminiscing than fantasizing. It's just mindless entertainment while I wake up enough to deal with much of anything. ~

 

[bigfield]

These days I'm down to two cups of porn and six hours of coffee a day.

 

[thebeave]

Regardless doing anything too much can be harmful. Even I would feel gross watching porn all day or half of the day.

So much this.
Like lots of stuff, it's a matter of degree. I always have a couple cups of coffee in the morning. After that, I avoid caffeine the rest of the day. But I damn well better get my morning java or everyone around me will wish I had.
Tom

ETA ~Sometimes I watch a porn video while having my coffee. At my stage of life it's more like reminiscing than fantasizing. It's just mindless entertainment while I wake up enough to deal with much of anything. ~

Well that's one way to get cream in your coffee.

 

[TomC]

Well that's one way to get cream in your coffee.

A) Not really anymore.

B) I'll tell the trashy jokes like that around here. Stay in your lane!

Tom

 

[thebeave]

Well that's one way to get cream in your coffee.

A) Not really anymore.

B) I'll tell the trashy jokes like that around here. Stay in your lane!

Tom

Bah! You're no fun.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

@DrZoidberg
An expert I'd recommend is Dr Robert Glover who wrote "No More Mr Niceguy". I just included the Terry Crews video because I just came across it and I liked the testimony of him giving up porn. Anyway some quotes:

A Note About Pornography.
I am not opposed to pornography legally or morally, but I think it is bad for men for several reasons:
Pornography creates unrealistic expectations of what people should like and what sex
should be like.
Pornography addicts men to bodies and body parts.
Pornography can easily become a substitute for a real sexual relationship.
Pornography creates a trance in which men can be sexual while staying distracted from
their shame and fear.
Pornography compounds shame because it is usually hidden and used in secret.
I tell Nice Guys, if you are going to use pornography, do it openly. Doing so tends to break the
trance and takes the buzz out of it.

A Note About Fantasy
Fantasy is a form of dissociation — the process of separating one's body from one's mind. When a
person fantasizes while being sexual he is purposefully and actively leaving his body. While some
sex therapists advocate fantasy as a way of improving a sex life, it is actually the best way I know
to kill it. Fantasizing during sex makes about as much sense as thinking about a Big Mac while
eating a gourmet meal. About the only thing fantasy accomplishes is to distract a person from his
shame and fear or cover up the fact that he is having bad sex.

Before Nice Guys can have exciting, passionate, and fulfilling sexual experiences with other people,
they must learn how to have the same with themselves. By taking matters into their own hands — by
practicing healthy masturbation — recovering Nice Guys can change the most basic dynamics that
shape the bigger picture of how they do sex.
Consider the logic:
Until a Nice Guy can be sexual with himself without shame, he won't be able to be sexual with
another person without shame.
Until a Nice Guy is comfortable giving pleasure to himself, he won't be able to receive pleasure
from someone else.
Until a Nice Guy can take responsibility for his own arousal and pleasure when he is by himself,
he won't be able to take responsibility for his own arousal and pleasure when is with someone
else.
Until a Nice Guy can be sexual with himself without using pornography or fantasy to distract
himself, he won't be able to have sex with someone else without needing similar things to distract
him.
Nice Guys can begin to change these dynamics by practicing what I call healthy masturbation. Healthy
masturbation is a process of letting sexual energy unfold. It has no goal or destination. It's not just about
orgasms. It does not require outside stimulation from pornography and doesn't use trances or fantasy to
stay distracted from shame and fear. It is about learning to pay attention to what feels good. Most of all,
it is about accepting sole responsibility for one's sexual pleasure and expression.
Many Nice Guys are initially uncomfortable with the discussion of healthy masturbation. The concept
seems like an oxymoron. In general, Nice Guys have tremendous internalized shame around
masturbation. They also frequently surround themselves with people who reinforce this shame (partner,
religion, etc.). Many Nice Guys also struggle with compulsive masturbation. They fear that attempting
any kind of self-gratification might open up Pandora's Box.
I have found that when recovering Nice Guys work on learning how to pleasure themselves without
using fantasy or pornography there is no way for their behavior to become compulsive. I have also found
that when they share the experience with other non-judgmental men, their shame diminishes rapidly.

I also found this interesting:

I have found Nice Guys to be prone to hidden, compulsive sexual behavior. I have developed a theory
that states, the nicer the guy, the darker the sexual secrets. I find this to be consistently true. Sex is a
basic human drive. Because most Nice Guys believe they are bad for being sexual, or believe that other
people will think they are bad, sexual impulses have to be kept hidden from view. The Nice Guy's
sexuality doesn't go away, it just goes underground. Therefore, the more dependent a man is on external
approval, the deeper he is going to have to hide his sexual behavior

I dunno feels like a sort of trance every time I masturbate, regardless of the use of pornography.

 

[ZiprHead]

Regardless doing anything too much can be harmful. Even I would feel gross watching porn all day or half of the day.

So much this.
Like lots of stuff, it's a matter of degree. I always have a couple cups of coffee in the morning. After that, I avoid caffeine the rest of the day. But I damn well better get my morning java or everyone around me will wish I had.
Tom

ETA ~Sometimes I watch a porn video while having my coffee. At my stage of life it's more like reminiscing than fantasizing. It's just mindless entertainment while I wake up enough to deal with much of anything. ~

Well that's one way to get cream in your coffee.

Eewwww...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Regardless doing anything too much can be harmful. Even I would feel gross watching porn all day or half of the day.

So much this.
Like lots of stuff, it's a matter of degree. I always have a couple cups of coffee in the morning. After that, I avoid caffeine the rest of the day. But I damn well better get my morning java or everyone around me will wish I had.
Tom

ETA ~Sometimes I watch a porn video while having my coffee. At my stage of life it's more like reminiscing than fantasizing. It's just mindless entertainment while I wake up enough to deal with much of anything. ~

Well that's one way to get cream in your coffee.

Eewwww...

Yeah, the monthly brunch at thebeave's is off.

 

[thebeave]

Regardless doing anything too much can be harmful. Even I would feel gross watching porn all day or half of the day.

So much this.
Like lots of stuff, it's a matter of degree. I always have a couple cups of coffee in the morning. After that, I avoid caffeine the rest of the day. But I damn well better get my morning java or everyone around me will wish I had.
Tom

ETA ~Sometimes I watch a porn video while having my coffee. At my stage of life it's more like reminiscing than fantasizing. It's just mindless entertainment while I wake up enough to deal with much of anything. ~

Well that's one way to get cream in your coffee.

Eewwww...

Yeah, the monthly brunch at thebeave's is off.

TomC's brunch is the one you have to worry about, not mine.

 

[TomC]

TomC's brunch is the one you have to worry about, not mine.

Y'all don't need to worry about it. You can't afford me!
Tom