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Venezuela - Chronicles in Socialist Success Stories!

maxparrish

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
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Location
SF Bay Area
Basic Beliefs
Libertarian-Conservative, Agnostic.
venezuela-food-lines.jpg


Now that the glorious Cuban revolution is about to be sullied by capitalist wreckers, and the Castros are becoming agents of western imperialism, for entertainment we must turn to the last promise of Socialist Utopia - the stewards of a sea of oil and the Bolivarian revolution of the Chavezistas:

The lines have never been worse.

In Venezuela, they’ve been around for years and begin in the wee hours—queues at supermarkets and department stores for basic goods like toilet paper and rice.
But this month, the lines have become longer and the waiting times have increased. People’s lives now revolve around standing in lines. They sleep on the streets to be the first in line to buy car batteries, laundry soap, tampons, and milk. They schedule their meals around being in line. Men and women of all ages now make their living by standing in line for others at 2am or earlier. They charge from $3 to $7 for each product they will buy on someone’s behalf.

Why so bad? Plunging oil prices only made inflation worse, and there’s a lack of foreign currency, among other issues.

“In terms of shortages, this is the worst I’ve seen,” says David Smilde, a senior fellow at the Washington Office on Latin America, a US think tank that studies the region, in an interview from Caracas. “And what’s different this time around is that at this point the people that are most affected are the poor. ...

The situation has led to a rise in crime due to the exorbitant prices at which most goods are sold in the black market. The difference between official prices and market prices is currently more than 560%, according to a recent study. (Meat and poultry prices are well over 1,000% what they should be.)

On Jan. 9, an armed commando of four robbers stormed the Día a Día supermarket in La Vega, Caracas. They stole the money in the cash registers and fled on their motorcycles carrying as many tuna cans and bags of sugar and flour as they could carry. One day earlier, in the port city of Catia, an unknown number of assailants ransacked a truck and left the scene with 92 kg (203 lbs) of cold meats. Two days before, in the same city, 15 people stopped and looted two trucks filled with bread and other products from the Bimbo brand.

You know they have arrived when they their economy challenges the one true benchmark of "successful" socialism - ration lines for food. Lenin must be smiling.

http://qz.com/330119/long-lines-for-milk-and-tampons-are-sinking-venezuelas-government/
 
Venezuela has a capitalist economy.

And before Chavez had control millions were worse off than they are now.
 
Back to the never-ending story: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-...cery-stores-on-military-protection-order.html

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Inside a Plan Suarez grocery store yesterday in eastern Caracas, shelves were mostly bare. Customers struggled and fought for items at times, with many trying to skip lines. The most sought-after products included detergent, with customers waiting in line for two to three hours to buy a maximum of two bags. A security guard asked that photos of empty shelves not be taken.

Police inside a Luvebras supermarket in eastern Caracas intervened to help staff distribute toilet paper and other products.

‘Looming Fear’

“You can’t find anything, I’ve spent 15 days looking for diapers,” Jean Paul Mate, a meat vendor, said outside the Luvebras store. “You have to take off work to look for products. I go to at least five stores a day.”

Venezuelan online news outlet VIVOplay posted a video of government food security regulator Carlos Osorio being interrupted by throngs of shoppers searching for products as he broadcast on state television from a Bicentenario government-run supermarket in central Caracas.

Interior Minister Carmen Melendez on state television told folks not to worry "The stores are full”. (You can't make this stuff up).
 
Interior Minister Carmen Melendez on state television told folks not to worry "The stores are full”. (You can't make this stuff up).

What do think is this cause of this one store with no items on the shelves?
 
The hand tooled statistics of the apologists for Stalin produced the same pretty tables and graphs about Stalin's worker's paradise as well. Read the Webbs for the same sort of delusional graphs from Soviet data about its utopia, just as that endlessly by the house CEPR apologists. Better yet, read the blogs of Venezuelans or talk to some of the visitors who went as idealists and came back as chastened critics.

Or read that house organ of crypto-Nazi propoganda, the Washington Post:

Venezuela's government, in other words, is playing whac-a-mole with economic reality. And its exchange-rate system is the hammer. It goes something like this. The Maduro regime wants to throttle the private sector but spend money like it hasn't. Then it wants to print what it needs, but keep prices the same like it hasn't. And finally, it wants to keep its stores stocked, but, going back to step one, keep the private sector in check like it hasn't. This is where its currency system comes in. The government, you see, has set up a three-tiered exchange rate to try to control everything — prices, profits, and production — in the economy. The idea, if you want to call it that, is that it can keep prices low by pretending its currency is really stronger than it is. And then it can decide who gets to make money, and how much, by doling out dollars to importers at this artificially low rate, provided they charge what the government says.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...but-its-government-has-destroyed-its-economy/

A government that has nationalized HUNDREDS of businesses and imposes command economics on prices, money, and production is NOT a capitalist economy - its Bolovarian socialist insanity.

PS About that "one supermarket"...please...

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/20...nk-run-venezuelans-are-on-a-supermarket-run/?

PPS You might remember that Venezuela has more than one inflation rate - the "official" one and the real one. You might append the following to your rosy graph:

It's no wonder then that Venezuela's inflation rate is officially 64 percent, is really something like 179 percent, and could get up to 1,000 percent, according to Bank of America, if Venezuela doesn't change its byzantine currency controls.

Links provided in the original text at the Washington Post
 
The hand tooled statistics of the apologists for Stalin produced the same pretty tables and graphs about Stalin's worker's paradise as well. Read the Webbs for the same sort of delusional graphs from Soviet data about utopia as that endlessly by the house CEPR apologists. Better yet, read the blogs of Venezuelans or talk to some of the visitors who went as idealists and came back as chastened critics.

You mean graphs looking at inflation is a commie trick?

Can you dispute any of them?

Before Chavez life was a living hell for millions in Venezuela. The same old story, descendants of white Europeans oppressing the indigenous population.

Is that what they should return to?

It is easy to pretend to have a functioning economy if you let a quarter of your population live in extreme poverty. Which went from 23.4% to 8.5% under Chavez.
 
B-US-Poverty.jpeg

Forty-five million people are living in poverty in the United States, according to figures released Tuesday by the Census Bureau. The 2013 Income and Poverty in the United States report found that the number of people in poverty remained at a record high last year, while the income of a typical household remained stagnant. According to the Census figures, the median household income in the US has fallen 8 percent since 2007.

http://kielarowski.net/2014/09/17/forty-five-million-in-poverty-in-the-us/

But hey, some of us are better off than many Venezuelans.

No problems with US capitalism at all.
 
The hand tooled statistics of the apologists for Stalin produced the same pretty tables and graphs about Stalin's worker's paradise as well. Read the Webbs for the same sort of delusional graphs from Soviet data about utopia as that endlessly by the house CEPR apologists. Better yet, read the blogs of Venezuelans or talk to some of the visitors who went as idealists and came back as chastened critics.

You mean graphs looking at inflation is a commie trick?

Can you dispute any of them?

Before Chavez life was a living hell for millions in Venezuela. The same old story, descendants of white Europeans oppressing the indigenous population.

Is that what they should return to?

It is easy to pretend to have a functioning economy if you let a quarter of your population live in extreme poverty. Which went from 23.4% to 8.5% under Chavez.

I dispute all of them. Like any socialist-communist country, especially those of the third world, any "official" set of statistics from their government are unvetted and untrustworthy garbage. Socialist ideologues and government cadre's churn this stuff out like spittle - mostly for propaganda consumption.

If you have sources in data behind the graphs from credible international sources, cite them.

PS: Here is the nature of the "shared" capitalist system you claim: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/01/venezuela-nationalizations-idUSN1E79I0Z520111201
 
You mean graphs looking at inflation is a commie trick?

Can you dispute any of them?

Before Chavez life was a living hell for millions in Venezuela. The same old story, descendants of white Europeans oppressing the indigenous population.

Is that what they should return to?

It is easy to pretend to have a functioning economy if you let a quarter of your population live in extreme poverty. Which went from 23.4% to 8.5% under Chavez.

I dispute all of them. Like any socialist-communist country, especially those of the third world, any "official" set of statistics from their government are unvetted and untrustworthy garbage. Socialist ideologues and government cadre's churn this stuff out like spittle - mostly for propaganda consumption.

If you have sources in data behind the graphs from credible international sources, cite them.

Oh my. All of them? Even the statistics from the Economic Commission on Latin America and the Caribbean?

The statistics on inflation come from the Central Bank of Venezuela.

Where do yours come from?
 
It's a mixed economy. As much Socialist as Capitalist.
The socialist government has been undermining and "nationalizing" the private sector ever since Chavez took power.
And of course some forget how bad it was in Venezuela for millions, mostly the indigenous non-white population, before Chavez.

First of all, your graphs come from CEPR, a left-wing think tank co-founed by Mark Weisbrot, a notorious Chavez/Maduro apologist. The inflation graph seriously downplays the inflation rate in Venezuela under Chavismo which now stands north of 60%.
Thirdly, the high inflation rate in the 90s was largely caused by oil price being below $20 most of the decade. That made Venezuelan oil, which is very heavy and sells at a discount, almost worthless. Chavez had the good fortune to come to power just as prices started to climb precipitously. We talk of the current oil prices in the mid to upper 40s a very low, but they would have been seen as very high in the 90s, even when adjusted for inflation.
Yet Chavez did not use the oil wealth intelligently. Instead of working together with the private sector to diversify the economy and improve social services by having a solid tax base he demonized the private industry, fought them every step of the way and instituted idiotic policies like price controls, currency controls, staffing PDVSA with party loyalists instead of oil experts and misusing the PDVSA budget as a piggy bank for his pet social projects, which resulted in lack of necessary investment and inevitable slowdown of production.
He also refused to pay oil services companies for work performed and when they demanded payment he simply confiscated their property. That would be like you calling a plumber, refusing to pay and stealing his truck instead. That isn't normal, but on socialism it it. Socialism - not even once.
 
The socialist government has been undermining and "nationalizing" the private sector ever since Chavez took power.

Before Chavez the nation was a third world oligarchy where millions had zero opportunity because of their ethnicity.

All we are seeing in Venezuela is the way the oligarchy reacts to attempts to end this.

They murder people in the streets then use it as an excuse to try to remove elected leaders with force.

They shut down oil production to try to destroy the economy.

And now they continue to try to destroy the economy through manufactured shortages.

The problem in Venezuela is that the old oligarchy still has too much power, not too much socialism.
 
Before Chavez the nation was a third world oligarchy where millions had zero opportunity because of their ethnicity.
Citation needed.

All we are seeing in Venezuela is the way the oligarchy reacts to attempts to end this.
The current problems in Venezuela are caused by boligarchs.

They shut down oil production to try to destroy the economy.
Oil production has been on a mostly downward trend since Chavez took power quite apart from the bigger dip around the time of the attempted coup and the oil strike.
EIA+Venezuela+oil_production_consumption.png

The reason is that Chavez (and Maduro after him) used PDVSA's budget to fund their pet projects which left too little money to invest in oil operations.

And now they continue to try to destroy the economy through manufactured shortages.
To the extent the shortages are "manufactured", they are manufactured by the idiotic currency controls (which make it difficult to obtain dollars), moronic price controls (which make it almost impossible to turn a profit) and other economic policies of the glorious Bolivarian Revolution.

The problem in Venezuela is that the old oligarchy still has too much power, not too much socialism.
The problem is the boligarchy (which is growing quite rich) and the fact that socialism has never worked.
 
I really don't know, nor care, much about Venzuela either way. I do, however, want to comment on these pictures of "empty" shelves.


Above we have a picture of a section of shelves, in which four shelves seem to be mostly empty, yet the shelves above, below, and to both sides seem to be quite full. Also, above and to the left you can see a large mirror that shows longer sections of shelves on the other side of the store that seem quite full. Someone needs to brush up on their photoshop skills if they want us to believe the stores are truly that empty. Come on, cropping is not that difficult, people!


This picture is also quite bad at showing how empty the store shelves are. We have an even shorter section of 3 empty shelves, surrounded by fully stocked sections to both sides. Compare these pictures to those of bare shelves in Soviet era Russia if you want to see what really empty store shelves look like. Actually, either one of the above pictures could have been snapped at my local supermarket after a big sale, if not for the "Made in Socialism" sign in the latter one.
 

Yes manufactured shortages by the remnant of the oligarchy.

Yep.

Socialists always need a bogeyman, don't they? It's never the obvious defect in the system itself; no, the failure of production is due to "counter-revolutionaries" or other capitalist saboteurs sight unseen. Socialist Venezuela will come to understand what the Soviet Union, Communist China, the Eastern Bloc, etc., learnt to their misery. When you go to war with nature, nature will win.
 
Yes manufactured shortages by the remnant of the oligarchy.

Yep.

Socialists always need a bogeyman, don't they? It's never the obvious defect in the system itself; no, the failure of production is due to "counter-revolutionaries" or other capitalist saboteurs sight unseen. Socialist Venezuela will come to understand what the Soviet Union, Communist China, the Eastern Bloc, etc., learnt to their misery. When you go to war with nature, nature will win.

When you try to stop the oppression of the oligarchy you will be attacked for it.

That is the only lesson Venezuela is learning.

That is why when US unions fought for justice in the early 20th Century they were attacked and killed, many times by the police.
 
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