Special Counsel investigation of Trump part 2

[Shadowy Man]

I would be in favour of the prosecutor offering Trump the following deal - plead guilty to all charges, and retract the stolen election charge in return for suspended sentences. I doubt Trump would accept such a deal.

The stolen election thing is not part of these charges so I don’t like your deal. It would only fuel the people who say this is political persecution and not a legal prosecution.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Harvard psychiatrist gives psychological reasons for Trump keeping those documents

"It's like having a badge on your four years old that says you're a secret policeman."

"I think it's something like that. He needs it for himself,"

That's probably as good a reason for Orange Manboy keeping things that don't belong to him. He's been doing this all his life, to include grifting his supporters. Lets add kleptomaniac to the list of behaviors.

 

[laughing dog]

I would be in favour of the prosecutor offering Trump the following deal - plead guilty to all charges, and retract the stolen election charge in return for suspended sentences. I doubt Trump would accept such a deal.

The stolen election thing is not part of these charges so I don’t like your deal. It would only fuel the people who say this is political persecution and not a legal prosecution.

Good point.

 

[Elixir]

That's probably as good a reason for Orange Manboy keeping things that don't belong to him.

It’s not that complicated (though psychiatrists need it to be, to justify their existence).
Power and money, plain and simple.

 

[Rhea]

I wonder if he will be able to maintain the necessary staff of criminal defense lawyers needed to operate in this new normal.

 

[Elixir]

I wonder if he will be able to maintain the necessary staff of criminal defense lawyers needed to operate in this new normal.

With sufficient money and power, that problem goes away. For instance, if Trump wins or steal the ‘24 election, he won’t need any lawyers. He now knows how to install his yesmen in every key position to enable his perpetual iron fisted reign over the lesser peoples of the once-United States, and that will be done very quickly, with the blessings of some 70 million evil/ignorant Americans.
Possession of all America’s military and security secrets could have helped him win or cheat his way into that situation. Now he will have to mostly do it without the help of those stolen classified documents. THAT is the real evil (and anti-American) in Trump’s estimation.

 

[Toni]

Reading the indictment I'm starting to form a theory for Trump's motivations.

1. Trump was given various classified documents while president, and Trump just added them to a big hoard of stuff for the sake of it. He didn't give a shit that they were controlled documents; as far as he was concerned, once he had them, they were his property.
2. When he left the Whitehouse he took his whole hoard with him to Mar-a-Lago, because it's all his stuff now, he can take it wherever he wants, no reason to go through it to see if there are any controlled documents that aren't allowed to leave the building.
3. Trump was only aware of some of the contents of the documents, stuff that he thought might help his political campaign somehow, or which might impress people like, "look at these cool military secrets!"
4. He picked sensitive military stuff to hide from the subpoena thinking that he could sell it to someone.
5. Instead of just giving the documents back, Trump wanted to keep his hoard, so he stonewalled, lied and hid the documents.
6. NARA recorded every controlled document given to POTUS so they knew exactly which ones he hadn't returned. There was never any hope of successfully hiding the documents. But Trump tried anyway because he's a greedy moron.

It's the Stupid Orange Dragon theory.

Yes, except he DID know that he shouldn’t have taken them. He DID know he shouldn’t show them to random people —we know this because he SAID that this was secret stuff!

I think it is more nefarious than he’s just some greedy stupid lizard guarding his hoard of treasure that he cannot fully understand. He’s no deep thinker but I’m certain he had buyers lined up. I’m also fairly certain that Jared was not given $2B by the Saudi’s because he’s such a sweet kid.

Actual treason and espionage was committed intentionally. Trump may be halfway into dementia but only half way. He’s fully capable of faking that he was too dumb to know that what he did was bad. He’s already been caught at it: it has been documented that he was officially notified that he could not retain certain papers and documents.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think that is a larger part of this. It isn't merely a hoarding issue, it is about getting away with it! He LITERALLY said this... that he is above the law, with his shooting someone on 5th Avenue retort. When a person gets away with stuff all the time, they feel invulnerable... almost like a drug.

I will say that treason and espionage has not been established, as far as a I know. He'd have to intentionally leak this stuff to our enemies, which I think we technically lack. And Betrayal isn't a crime, though it could easily be an impeachable thing, if as President.

 

[ZiprHead]

Judge Cannon jumpstarts oversight of Trump classified documents case with order on security clearances

US District Judge Aileen Cannon issued her first order since former President Donald Trump pleaded not guilty to charges brought by special counsel Jack Smith for allegedly mishandling classified information, instructing the parties to get the ball rolling to obtain security clearances for the lawyers who will need them.

In a Thursday order, Cannon gave “all attorneys of record and forthcoming attorneys of record” a Friday deadline for getting in touch with the Justice Department’s litigation security group so that they can expedite “the necessary clearance process.” By June 20, she wants the lawyers to file a notice confirming they have complied with her instructions.

 

[ZiprHead]

18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information​

• U.S. Code
• Notes

prev | next
(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information—
(1)
concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or
(2)
concerning the design, construction, use, maintenance, or repair of any device, apparatus, or appliance used or prepared or planned for use by the United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or
(3)
concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or
(4)
obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

Here's the good part...

(d)
(1)Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall forfeit to the United States irrespective of any provision of State law—
(A)
any property constituting, or derived from, any proceeds the person obtained, directly or indirectly, as the result of such violation; and
(B)
any of the person’s property used, or intended to be used, in any manner or part, to commit, or to facilitate the commission of, such violation.

Imagine Mar A Lago and Bedminster becoming federal properties.

 

[ZiprHead]

Opinion Biden should pardon Trump. Really.

Marc A. Thiessen is a Post contributing columnist and senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. Danielle Pletka is a distinguished senior fellow at AEI. They co-host a podcast, “What the Hell Is Going On?”

 

[Elixir]

18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information​

• U.S. Code
• Notes

prev | next
(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information—
(1)
concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or
(2)
concerning the design, construction, use, maintenance, or repair of any device, apparatus, or appliance used or prepared or planned for use by the United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or
(3)
concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or
(4)
obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

Here's the good part...

(d)
(1)Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall forfeit to the United States irrespective of any provision of State law—
(A)
any property constituting, or derived from, any proceeds the person obtained, directly or indirectly, as the result of such violation; and
(B)
any of the person’s property used, or intended to be used, in any manner or part, to commit, or to facilitate the commission of, such violation.

Imagine Mar A Lago and Bedminster becoming federal properties.

Imagine that, indeed! Especially when the US Government-owned golf courses prohibit any PGA events or players from playing there because they’re in MBS’ pocket.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Opinion Biden should pardon Trump. Really.

Marc A. Thiessen is a Post contributing columnist and senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. Danielle Pletka is a distinguished senior fellow at AEI. They co-host a podcast, “What the Hell Is Going On?”

“The dangers this poses to our democracy are obvious.”

Imagine the danger to our democracy for Trump to be proven to be above the law and headed back into the White House.

I have faith that the American people are resilient enough to be able to live with bringing a criminal politician to justice.

 

[Elixir]

Opinion Biden should pardon Trump. Really.

Marc A. Thiessen is a Post contributing columnist and senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. Danielle Pletka is a distinguished senior fellow at AEI. They co-host a podcast, “What the Hell Is Going On?”

Hmmmm.

The threshold for the sitting president’s administration to indict the leading candidate of the opposing party should be extraordinarily high.

Sure. Equal treatment under the law?
Fugeddaboudit

High enough to mitigate the suspicion held by 80 percent of Republicans and almost half the nation, per ABC News-Ipsos polling, that these charges are politically motivated.

The ridiculous beliefs of the trumpdindunuffins should have no place in the decision to charge. Let them learn the error of their ways by watching the testimony in a court of law.

 

[ZiprHead]

Special counsel seeks court order to ensure Trump and his defense don’t share materials turned over in discovery

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

You gotta laugh. Orange Manboy just did an interview in which he said that if the Feds wanted the documents back all they had to say was "please, please, please." Is that proof enough that Orange Manboy is mentally unfit to be an adult?

 

[Ford]

Opinion Biden should pardon Trump. Really.

Marc A. Thiessen is a Post contributing columnist and senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. Danielle Pletka is a distinguished senior fellow at AEI. They co-host a podcast, “What the Hell Is Going On?”

“The dangers this poses to our democracy are obvious.”

Imagine the danger to our democracy for Trump to be proven to be above the law and headed back into the White House.

It's more than that. There is pretty compelling evidence that Trump deliberately hid national security documents concerning human intelligence and nuclear secrets from investigators, keeping them for what purpose we can only guess. There is also compelling testimony that he took a contingency plan to attack an adversary and waved it around like a kid who got an "A+" on his 5th grade report card. Waved it around in front of people who shouldn't have even been in the same room with the document.

Trump may very well have committed the most serious breach of national security since WWII...or perhaps even in history. If the accusations are true, he can never be trusted with national security again. For a sitting President, there is essentially no "security clearance." He (or she) can see everything. Can take it into his office and pour over it at will. Can take it to bed with him as some "light reading." With that power comes enormous responsibility, which includes never discussing it outside of a very select group of people who do have security clearance.

Trump has proven that he cannot handle this responsibility. If convicted of these charges, either he must be prevented from being President again, or we must completely revamp the powers of the Presidency so that such a breach of security cannot happen again.

 

[Shadowy Man]

You gotta laugh. Orange Manboy just did an interview in which he said that if the Feds wanted the documents back all they had to say was "please, please, please." Is that proof enough that Orange Manboy is mentally unfit to be an adult?

They forgot the cherry on top of their subpoena, because we all know that’s how it works.

 

[bilby]

Honestly, if you want a complacent, content enough population, make sure they have access to good jobs, affordable housing abd health care and day care and good educational opportunities for their families. And roads in decent shape, clean air and water. In other words, security, with hope for the future.

yes, and both rural people and urban people should want this and they should be United in their desire to have political candidates who address these things. And yet it seems that the majority of Republicans are not thinking this way.

I’m quite happy to consider the reasoned political opinions of those whose values may differ from mine but I almost never hear that from the right. Perhaps that is media bias at play, and the voices of those who are reasonable are getting drowned out.

Exactly. Palin came to power by politicizing abortion in a local mayoral race. The Virginia Governor would get to power because of CRT, while the Florida Governor was protecting the people from socialists. Rural Ohio has signs in yards against windmills, and not because of bilby's arguments.

And a lot of Americzns died because they politicized a pandemic emergency.

And this happened world wide, as well.

Yes, within mostly the same alt-right hyper-partisan madness. Brazil, England, US, India... nations with leaders that got to where they were via anger, resentment, and hate.

Around here, mostly as a response to the leakiness of American right-wing propaganda. It used to mostly be contained within your country, but these days it's on the Internet, so it gets everywhere.

It was very noticeable that a lot of the Covidiots here were complaining about the CDC, and Dr Fauci, neither of whom has any role in Australian pandemic policy or response. The very American tone of the opposition to vaccination and lock-downs is a dead giveaway that it's coming, not from Australian concerns, but from American propaganda via Twitter and Facebook.

 

[Toni]

Honestly, if you want a complacent, content enough population, make sure they have access to good jobs, affordable housing abd health care and day care and good educational opportunities for their families. And roads in decent shape, clean air and water. In other words, security, with hope for the future.

yes, and both rural people and urban people should want this and they should be United in their desire to have political candidates who address these things. And yet it seems that the majority of Republicans are not thinking this way.

I’m quite happy to consider the reasoned political opinions of those whose values may differ from mine but I almost never hear that from the right. Perhaps that is media bias at play, and the voices of those who are reasonable are getting drowned out.

Exactly. Palin came to power by politicizing abortion in a local mayoral race. The Virginia Governor would get to power because of CRT, while the Florida Governor was protecting the people from socialists. Rural Ohio has signs in yards against windmills, and not because of bilby's arguments.

And a lot of Americzns died because they politicized a pandemic emergency.

And this happened world wide, as well.

Yes, within mostly the same alt-right hyper-partisan madness. Brazil, England, US, India... nations with leaders that got to where they were via anger, resentment, and hate.

Around here, mostly as a response to the leakiness of American right-wing propaganda. It used to mostly be contained within your country, but these days it's on the Internet, so it gets everywhere.

It was very noticeable that a lot of the Covidiots here were complaining about the CDC, and Dr Fauci, neither of whom has any role in Australian pandemic policy or response. The very American tone of the opposition to vaccination and lock-downs is a dead giveaway that it's coming, not from Australian concerns, but from American propaganda via Twitter and Facebook.

I would not be completely certain that it actually originated from US sources, tbh.