George Zimmerman Arrested On Domestic Violence And Weapons Charge

[semiopen]

It's not like young black men are known for being coddled by the law in Florida.

Jimmy would say that's close to prejudice

 

[Nexus]

And if the network of cops were covering up for Martin's wrongdoings why would they reverse course and hassle him the night Zimmerman caught him? Remember, Loren's claim is that Martin was afraid of being identified/captured and that's why he attacked, yet why would he fear Zimmerman turning him over to the cops that will simply sweep things under the rug to keep their crime stats looking good?

If the cops were willing to suppress evidence to help Martin when there was actually stolen property why would he be fearful on the night he didn't have stolen property on him and a legitimate reason to be walking in the neighborhood?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It's not like young black men are known for being coddled by the law in Florida.

Jimmy would say that's close to prejudice

*self-moderated statement*

And if the network of cops were covering up for Martin's wrongdoings why would they reverse course and hassle him the night Zimmerman caught him? Remember, Loren's claim is that Martin was afraid of being identified/captured and that's why he attacked, yet why would he fear Zimmerman turning him over to the cops that will simply sweep things under the rug to keep their crime stats looking good?

If the cops were willing to suppress evidence to help Martin when there was actually stolen property why would he be fearful on the night he didn't have stolen property on him and a legitimate reason to be walking in the neighborhood?

Kryptonite probably. It weakened his resolve.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I agree with the others Loren. All that would have happened is if the cops showed up they would have talked with Martin and he would have said I live down there and sorry for the confusion. Definitely would be nice if police could to anywhere within minutes to settle things.

 

[Sarpedon]

Cops look better when the crime rate drops.

That's a stupid lie. Cops look good when they 'solve' crimes. That's why its very common for cops to intimidate people into confessing crimes they didn't commit.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Cops look better when the crime rate drops.

That's a stupid lie. Cops look good when they 'solve' crimes. That's why its very common for cops to intimidate people into confessing crimes they didn't commit.

I wasn't going to address this, but when crime stats are fudged the departments will up the numbers of crime in order to justify budget increases. J. Edgar Hoover famously did this to enlarge the FBI, so I really don't know why departments would want to make up lower crime stats.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That's a stupid lie. Cops look good when they 'solve' crimes. That's why its very common for cops to intimidate people into confessing crimes they didn't commit.

I wasn't going to address this, but when crime stats are fudged the departments will up the numbers of crime in order to justify budget increases. J. Edgar Hoover famously did this to enlarge the FBI, so I really don't know why departments would want to make up lower crime stats.

Make the Mayor look better.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I wasn't going to address this, but when crime stats are fudged the departments will up the numbers of crime in order to justify budget increases. J. Edgar Hoover famously did this to enlarge the FBI, so I really don't know why departments would want to make up lower crime stats.

Make the Mayor look better.

This was a school police department so it made the school look better by having less arrests of students with handling the issues internally.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Make the Mayor look better.

This was a school police department so it made the school look better by having less arrests of students with handling the issues internally.

My god you are right. They have a School Police Department in Miami-Dade!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think I'm lost here. Did Martin resurrect himself and get Zimmerman charged with assault? Blacks can do that right?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

I think I'm lost here. Did Martin resurrect himself and get Zimmerman charged with assault? Blacks can do that right?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalNegro

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_Negro

 

[EPresence2]

Please don't get me wrong - I am not trying to justify Zimmerman doing anything more than calling 911 to report a suspicious person. Plausible scenario(s) follow his statement about, "these guys always getting away." That could mean he meant to detain one himself or just follow them - which is more likely? The intent to follow was clearly evidenced in his 911 call. There was no expressed intent to detain and no previous history of attempted detainment of suspects. There was a spat of robberies before the incident with suspects fitting the description of Martin (unfortunately) - http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425. And no definitive sign they would not continue. Zimmerman had a gun for fear of a dog who cornered his wife (mostly) and he was not a member of Neighborhood Watch at the time, as I erroneously trotted out earlier.

Whereas following a suspicious person was worthy of punishment, it is not clear who started the physical altercation - Rachel wasn't sure about that either. So how do you choose between two plausible scenarios when neither can be supported without a reasonable doubt?

By evaluating the evidence, and going where the facts lead us, not where we want them to go.

If you are trying to choose between scenarios in which either Zimmerman or Martin physically assaulted the other, and there is no direct evidence indicating who assaulted whom, the next best thing to do is examine their personal histories and look for evidence one or the other or both were likely to resort to violence. There are certain facts in evidence that speak to the matter, and we can directly compare them.

Facts in Evidence:

In 2001 Zimmerman was involved in a fight in Virginia that resulted in police being called and the matter going before a court of law. We know almost nothing about the fight - who started it or why, whether Zimmerman provoked the fight or was an innocent victim. But we do know it happened when he was 17 or 18, and that the court records were sealed.

In 2005 Zimmerman's fiancé sought and was granted a Restraining Order against him. She testified he had become violent over the course of an argument, and that he had struck her in the face on another occasion as well.

Also in 2005, Zimmerman was arrested for felony assault of a police offer after he grabbed a cop and slammed him against a wall when the cop detained and questioned one of Zimmerman's friends for underage drinking. Zimmerman later claimed he thought the guy was a bouncer. The charge was reduced to a misdemeanor as part of a plea deal, and later waived upon Zimmerman's successful completion of an alcohol education program.

Facts in evidence regarding Martin's encounters with the law: there are none. Martin's only known run-ins with authorities of any sort are his four suspensions from school. All four incidents were handled at the school level. His transgressions were:
1. excessive tardiness
2. writing "wtf" on a school locker
3. fighting
4. having in his possession a baggie containing marijuana residue.

So at this point, an honest evaluation of the facts leads us to favor Zimmerman as the aggressor, since Zimmerman is the one with the documented history of being aggressive. Even if we suppose Martin was the aggressor in his fight at school (and we have no reason to suppose this), the level of violence did not lead to police involvement or court action, as teenaged Zimmerman's fight and adult Zimmerman's violence did.

Allegations:

A former co-worker of Zimmerman's told the police that he once saw Zimmerman pick up a drunk woman and throw her down onto a sidewalk. He also said Zimmerman could be a nice guy at times but when he lost his temper he became violent. Zimmerman's cousin told the police that Zimmerman assaulted, bullied, and sexually molested her for 10 years starting when she was 6 years old. She also said Zimmerman became violent when crossed.

Allegations made against Martin by first hand witnesses or people with direct knowledge of events: none. Not one of Martin's neighbors, teachers, schoolmates, family members, camp counselors or administrators has ever alleged Martin committed an act of violence, other than the reported school fight.

So at this point an honest assessment of the evidence leads us toward the conclusion that Zimmerman was more likely to have resorted to violence, and Martin less likely.

Now, there have been any number of unsupported assertions, wild speculations, and scurrilous gossip about both Zimmerman and Martin. The overwhelming majority of them are strongly anti-Martin. They are also notably racist, as is the line of argument that denies Martin the same right of self defense that Zimmerman is granted. But their most important characteristic is the lack of any evidence whatsoever to support them. They are all "what if...?" stories and blatant fabrications masquerading as evidence, and they should not be allowed to blind us to the known facts.

The known facts are this: on the night Zimmerman and Martin met, one of them had a history of aggression and violence, and it wasn't Martin. And at this point in time, with Zimmerman's continuing pattern of aggression and violence, I cannot understand why Martin is still being vilified and Zimmerman still enjoys the benefit of the doubt.

I really appreciate the relatively thorough evaluation toward making a qualitative decision between the scenarios (and lack of snarky commentary). I certainly wasn't vilifying Martin unless the possibility of an initial punch by Martin is admitted as plausible. Although I'm not sure making a mistake or multiple mistakes makes one a villain. It is also important to make a distinction between alleged crimes and convicted crimes. You don't know the kind of people GZ has been dealing with (e.g., the cop could have been a dickhead, the cousin could have been a bigger liar). GZ definitely had/has some anger management issues and he was angry at "these guys (burglary suspects) always getting away." GZ also had a longer history of both bad and good behavior to evaluate than the younger Martin. So the comparison of records isn't really apples to apples. Teenagers do stupid things, as we all know. Then again, the older GZ's behavior pattern had more chances to calcify. There is also the possibility that being wrongfully accused of such stupid behavior (e.g., jumping TM to attempt a detainment before even calling the cops again) could contribute to some anger. I don't see many of you on this thread giving ANY benefit of the doubt, or allowance for mitigating circumstances, to GZ. No logical arguments or evidence are presented to label his family and friends as better or worse than Trayvon's family and friends. This is clearly biased. And why would Trayvon be threatened by a man driving around IN a gated community? Obviously, he lives there and was able to get in with a vehicle. Maybe he's a pedophile looking to score a black boy with his blow gun or bare hands. If I were TM and walking back "home" at night in a gated community and noticed a car following me, driven by a "creepy ass cracker," I might walk around his car too and say "Get off me!" If he got out the car and dared question my presence there (profiling?), I might very well punch his ass (if I were young, dump, and full of you know what). And what's up with all the downplaying of the wounds on GZ? There were more than two wounds (more like 6 from the source I linked to) and a couple of witnesses who corroborated GZ's "beat down" story. And it was raining, so blood on the pavement could have washed away. That said, it is still plausible that GZ meant to detain the youth and got punched for it - and what a bone-headed maneuver that would have been. In either case, the guy deserved some punishment - which he got in the court of public opinion (e.g., death threats, hate mail)... and now more charges (back to the OP)

 

[ksen]

Martin is dead . . . but at least his killer is getting disapproving looks from [some] people in society.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is also important to make a distinction between alleged crimes and convicted crimes. You don't know the kind of people GZ has been dealing with (e.g., the cop could have been a dickhead, the cousin could have been a bigger liar). GZ definitely had/has some anger management issues and he was angry at "these guys (burglary suspects) always getting away." GZ also had a longer history of both bad and good behavior to evaluate than the younger Martin. So the comparison of records isn't really apples to apples.

So George Zimmerman is either Charlie Brown... or he is a sociopath. The long history indicates the later. He always has an excuse for whatever.

Teenagers do stupid things, as we all know.

Yes. Of course, Martin has been accused of buying drugs at the 7/11, purchasing products in order to make a quasi-drug cocktail, high on marijuana during the attack, casing homes, having actually robbed homes in the neighborhood, ambushing Zimmerman, tried to kill Zimmerman, initiating the conflict, being a UFC grade fighter.

Zimmerman is accused by some as acting recklessly, needlessly killing someone, being a racist, concocting a family rescue, being a sociopath, being a psychopath.

The Zimmerman claims are mostly based on his own actions and things he said. Being a racist doesn't seem likely, though.

The Martin claims are based on B-grade Zimmerman Fan Fic that is designed to try and do the best with almost no data, and vilifying him, to justify his own killing.

In either case, the guy deserved some punishment - which he got in the court of public opinion (e.g., death threats, hate mail)... and now more charges (back to the OP)

Nicole Brown Simpson's parent said the same thing when OJ was freed.

 

[Toni]

So you are saying that the Miami Police deliberately failed to report crimes they investigated? Or some undefined generalized "cops" not reporting crime statistics from a hunch that you have?

There was no arrest report because the school cops swept the details under the rug so he wouldn't be connected to the burglary and they would look like they were doing a better job.

If there was no arrest report and they swept the details under the rug:
#1) How would the cop arriving on the scene now what Martin's "true identity" was?
#2) How would you know that the cops swept it under the rug?

1) The cops talking to him wouldn't do anything at first. However, when more burglary reports came in the cops would start looking at suspicious characters in the area.

But how would the Sanford officer on the scene have known about the Miami police's supposed cover up of Martin's activities? Is there an underground police network that broadcasts data that is from suppressed "crime reports" in Florida?

Also, do you know how actual crimes are reported?

2) Are you denying the documents that blogger posted?

What documents are you referring to and how would these documents have helped Sanford police immediately identify a teen without a criminal or arrest record as a serial burglar? And how if they were keeping all this secret would YOU know?

If you are black, you must not have a single mark against your name, ever. Even atheists insist that blacks spend all of their time not in school either in church and choir practice, playing ball, serving as entertainment for the nice white folks or working a menial job to earn enough money for a jobs training program.

Women of any color must do the above plus be virgins.

Otherwise, they are guilty.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So you are saying that the Miami Police deliberately failed to report crimes they investigated? Or some undefined generalized "cops" not reporting crime statistics from a hunch that you have?

There was no arrest report because the school cops swept the details under the rug so he wouldn't be connected to the burglary and they would look like they were doing a better job.

If there was no arrest report and they swept the details under the rug:
#1) How would the cop arriving on the scene now what Martin's "true identity" was?
#2) How would you know that the cops swept it under the rug?

1) The cops talking to him wouldn't do anything at first. However, when more burglary reports came in the cops would start looking at suspicious characters in the area.

But how would the Sanford officer on the scene have known about the Miami police's supposed cover up of Martin's activities? Is there an underground police network that broadcasts data that is from suppressed "crime reports" in Florida?

Also, do you know how actual crimes are reported?

2) Are you denying the documents that blogger posted?

What documents are you referring to and how would these documents have helped Sanford police immediately identify a teen without a criminal or arrest record as a serial burglar? And how if they were keeping all this secret would YOU know?

If you are black, you must not have a single mark against your name, ever. Even atheists insist that blacks spend all of their time not in school either in church and choir practice, playing ball, serving as entertainment for the nice white folks or working a menial job to earn enough money for a jobs training program.

Women of any color must do the above plus be virgins.

Otherwise, they are guilty.

But Obama, Obama, Obama!

 

[laughing dog]

Martin is dead . . . but at least his killer is getting disapproving looks from [some] people in society.

Clearly Martin got off lightly in comparison.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I agree with the others Loren. All that would have happened is if the cops showed up they would have talked with Martin and he would have said I live down there and sorry for the confusion. Definitely would be nice if police could to anywhere within minutes to settle things.

Nothing bad would have happened to him then.

However, later when they were investigating burglaries they would take note of the suspicious character they had talked to.

- - - Updated - - -

Cops look better when the crime rate drops.

That's a stupid lie. Cops look good when they 'solve' crimes. That's why its very common for cops to intimidate people into confessing crimes they didn't commit.

The two aren't incompatible.

There have been many examples reported of widespread under-reporting to make the stats look good.

 

[Deepak]

There have been many examples reported of widespread under-reporting to make the stats look good.

Can you source this claim?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Nothing bad would have happened to him then.

However, later when they were investigating burglaries they would take note of the suspicious character they had talked to.

Yeah, that wraskally wabbit.

There have been many examples reported of widespread under-reporting to make the stats look good.

Can you source this claim?

Does The Wire count as a source?