The UK triggers article 50.

[TSwizzle]

Well they have gone and done it, the UK has triggered article 50 so they can extract from the EU. Interesting times ahead for the UK and Europe. I think this is a huge mistake and will cause more trouble than it is worth. It's pretty sad actually but we will just have to see how it turns out.

Theresa May has told parliament that she accepts Brexit will carry consequences for the UK, as a letter delivered to Brussels began a two-year countdown to Britain’s departure from the EU. The prime minister made a speech on triggering article 50 minutes after the European council president, Donald Tusk, confirmed he had received notification. He declared that “the UK has delivered Brexit” nine months after a bruising referendum campaign.

TheGruaniad

 

[whichphilosophy]

Good. It will take a few years, but I don't think the current government will change anything on immigration or change any major policies. It's simply pushing Eu law into English law to repeal them later. This means it could take from about 5 years to never to appeal these through the parliamentary debate process.

 

[Juma]

Good. It will take a few years, but I don't think the current government will change anything on immigration or change any major policies. It's simply pushing Eu law into English law to repeal them later. This means it could take from about 5 years to never to appeal these through the parliamentary debate process.

Then why the fuck did they exit? Immigration was the major reason so nothing changes there will be trouble.

 

[iolo]

Good. It will take a few years, but I don't think the current government will change anything on immigration or change any major policies. It's simply pushing Eu law into English law to repeal them later. This means it could take from about 5 years to never to appeal these through the parliamentary debate process.

Then why the fuck did they exit? Immigration was the major reason so nothing changes there will be trouble.

They didn't. A lot of mugs voted for a lot of liars because they were generally pissed off with the way things are, and then a lot of cynics took over for careerist reasons, sailing us up Shit Creek without a paddle with very little notion what to do afterwards.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Good. It will take a few years, but I don't think the current government will change anything on immigration or change any major policies. It's simply pushing Eu law into English law to repeal them later. This means it could take from about 5 years to never to appeal these through the parliamentary debate process.

Then why the fuck did they exit? Immigration was the major reason so nothing changes there will be trouble.

We are told that but in watching some programs over the past few days it was:

Sovereignty over our own laws
Only British courts to rule over British Laws
Concerns about the British and Eu Economy
Bankruptcies in Spain, Ireland, Portugal, Cyprus, Greece.
That is 5 out of 28 member states The UK doesn't want to follow suit. Countries such as Italy have already had to bail out ailing banks such as Monte dei Paschi di Siena ($20.8 billion). See
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/european-debt-crisis-not-just-greece-drowning-debt/
There are five EU countries that have debts standing at over €1trn: the United Kingdom, Italy, Germany, France and Spain.
Over-Immigration but not immigration as such
However the current government has proved ineffective in this area, partly because we are not owned by the EU.
We've always had immigration but not in such droves. Visit London and the landscape has completely transformed within the past 20 years. This is not the issue. Our schools, healthcare and housing are under provided. The press reported that when a patient was wheeled out for an operation, his bed was stolen for another patient.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Then why the fuck did they exit? Immigration was the major reason so nothing changes there will be trouble.

They didn't. A lot of mugs voted for a lot of liars because they were generally pissed off with the way things are, and then a lot of cynics took over for careerist reasons, sailing us up Shit Creek without a paddle with very little notion what to do afterwards.

That will be the day when we vote for parties that don't lie. We didn't have a paddle in the first place. We are strapped to the EU (4th Reich) but the cord and its time to start cutting it. There is a lot to do but it will take time to negotiate. I believe it will take 5 years rather than 2.

 

[iolo]

They didn't. A lot of mugs voted for a lot of liars because they were generally pissed off with the way things are, and then a lot of cynics took over for careerist reasons, sailing us up Shit Creek without a paddle with very little notion what to do afterwards.

That will be the day when we vote for parties that don't lie. We didn't have a paddle in the first place. We are strapped to the EU (4th Reich) but the cord and its time to start cutting it. There is a lot to do but it will take time to negotiate. I believe it will take 5 years rather than 2.

The current gang didn't stand for Brexit - other than the twicer Johnson - and nobody voted for a Party that is now responsible for what happened. Like all other members, we had a voice in what the EU did, whereas we have no voice in what this gang are doing. It is straight fascism, in which nobody is allowed to speak freely any more, and the Mail and the Murdochites are undermining the rule of law. Enjoy it, muggins!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

They didn't. A lot of mugs voted for a lot of liars because they were generally pissed off with the way things are, and then a lot of cynics took over for careerist reasons, sailing us up Shit Creek without a paddle with very little notion what to do afterwards.

That will be the day when we vote for parties that don't lie. We didn't have a paddle in the first place. We are strapped to the EU (4th Reich) but the cord and its time to start cutting it. There is a lot to do but it will take time to negotiate. I believe it will take 5 years rather than 2.

There is political bs, and then there is full blown BS. The Brexit campaigners flat out lied about the benefits of leaving and were pulling back on their bullshit the morning after.

 

[whichphilosophy]

That will be the day when we vote for parties that don't lie. We didn't have a paddle in the first place. We are strapped to the EU (4th Reich) but the cord and its time to start cutting it. There is a lot to do but it will take time to negotiate. I believe it will take 5 years rather than 2.

There is political bs, and then there is full blown BS. The Brexit campaigners flat out lied about the benefits of leaving and were pulling back on their bullshit the morning after.

The full benefits of leaving depend on the divorce proceedings.

While we stay in Europe our factories are at risk from opportunists getting free money from the EU to move factories (creating job losses) into the EU such as

1. Cadbury moves factory from Bristol to Poland with EU grant 2011.

2. Twinings obtains £10 million EU grant for new factory in Eastern Europe.

3. Dyson opens operation in Malaysia with EU Loan.

4. Ford Transit moved to Turkey with EU Grant 2013.

5. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicle to be built in Spain with EU grant, using Swedish steel, at request of EU to support jobs in Spain instead of Wales.

6. TATA Steel (makers of the TATA Nanu) It moved to the UK receiving subsidies. The Pension funds are trashed and now after a few years it is selling what is left of British steel.

I had a list of others including inventions car makers were once mentioned in a couple of threads a few weeks ago.

 

[whichphilosophy]

That will be the day when we vote for parties that don't lie. We didn't have a paddle in the first place. We are strapped to the EU (4th Reich) but the cord and its time to start cutting it. There is a lot to do but it will take time to negotiate. I believe it will take 5 years rather than 2.

The current gang didn't stand for Brexit - other than the twicer Johnson - and nobody voted for a Party that is now responsible for what happened. Like all other members, we had a voice in what the EU did, whereas we have no voice in what this gang are doing. It is straight fascism, in which nobody is allowed to speak freely any more, and the Mail and the Murdochites are undermining the rule of law. Enjoy it, muggins!

The people voted for it so they instead of the parties voted for it. A last minute attempt to still push this as an exclusive right of the Europhiliacs in parliament failed. The MPs effectively respect the will of the people. War Criminal Blair, and Major are of course trying to reverse this.

 

[repoman]

Well at at any rate the masses in the UK should focus on changing THIS now: the terrible disproportionality for party votes vs party MPs.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/why-this-years-general-election-was-the-most-unfair-in-britains-history-10288317.html



Do whatever it takes, general strikes etc.. to get it done.


The EU is not representative of the people, and the way the MPs are elected is only slightly less so.

Ironically, UKIP is the most sodomized by this problem.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There is political bs, and then there is full blown BS. The Brexit campaigners flat out lied about the benefits of leaving and were pulling back on their bullshit the morning after.

The full benefits of leaving depend on the divorce proceedings.

Right now, Britain is bluffing that they can get more from the EU for less than they put in now. That is called denial.

While we stay in Europe our factories are at risk from opportunists getting free money from the EU to move factories (creating job losses) into the EU such as

1. Cadbury moves factory from Bristol to Poland with EU grant 2011.

2. Twinings obtains £10 million EU grant for new factory in Eastern Europe.

3. Dyson opens operation in Malaysia with EU Loan.

4. Ford Transit moved to Turkey with EU Grant 2013.

5. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicle to be built in Spain with EU grant, using Swedish steel, at request of EU to support jobs in Spain instead of Wales.

6. TATA Steel (makers of the TATA Nanu) It moved to the UK receiving subsidies. The Pension funds are trashed and now after a few years it is selling what is left of British steel.

I had a list of others including inventions car makers were once mentioned in a couple of threads a few weeks ago.

Yup, everything is always a one-way street for isolationists.

 

[Derec]

I think this is a bad move for both UK and EU.

With Cameron (who promised the referendum) resigning, May would have had the opportunity to say that he did not feel obligated to act on a referendum (which was legalluy non-binding mind you) and initiate such a momentous change based on such a minuscule majority vote.

Alas, she failed to do it and let herself be swept in the inertia of what was happening. May is not so much the Iron Lady, she is Gallium Lady at best.

P.S.: with all this, I do understand the frustrations people in the UK and elsewhere have with EU, especially given how badly mishandled the migration crisis has been.

 

[lpetrich]

Well at at any rate the masses in the UK should focus on changing THIS now: the terrible disproportionality for party votes vs party MPs.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/why-this-years-general-election-was-the-most-unfair-in-britains-history-10288317.html ...

The EU is not representative of the people, and the way the MPs are elected is only slightly less so.

Ironically, UKIP is the most sodomized by this problem.

That's a result of single-member districts with first-past-the-post elections. It's  Duverger's law.

There is a fix: proportional representation. Is there anyone in the UK pushing for it?

 

[whichphilosophy]

The full benefits of leaving depend on the divorce proceedings.

Right now, Britain is bluffing that they can get more from the EU for less than they put in now. That is called denial.

While we stay in Europe our factories are at risk from opportunists getting free money from the EU to move factories (creating job losses) into the EU such as

1. Cadbury moves factory from Bristol to Poland with EU grant 2011.

2. Twinings obtains £10 million EU grant for new factory in Eastern Europe.

3. Dyson opens operation in Malaysia with EU Loan.

4. Ford Transit moved to Turkey with EU Grant 2013.

5. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicle to be built in Spain with EU grant, using Swedish steel, at request of EU to support jobs in Spain instead of Wales.

6. TATA Steel (makers of the TATA Nanu) It moved to the UK receiving subsidies. The Pension funds are trashed and now after a few years it is selling what is left of British steel.

I had a list of others including inventions car makers were once mentioned in a couple of threads a few weeks ago.

Yup, everything is always a one-way street for isolationists.

Giving grants to companies to move business out of the UK is hardly fair competition created by the EU. All trade however and agreements with the EU should be a two way street or rather a 28 way street as all are involved. The EU and the UK depend on each other whether or not the UK is in the EU.

- - - Updated - - -

Well at at any rate the masses in the UK should focus on changing THIS now: the terrible disproportionality for party votes vs party MPs.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/why-this-years-general-election-was-the-most-unfair-in-britains-history-10288317.html ...

The EU is not representative of the people, and the way the MPs are elected is only slightly less so.

Ironically, UKIP is the most sodomized by this problem.

That's a result of single-member districts with first-past-the-post elections. It's  Duverger's law.

There is a fix: proportional representation. Is there anyone in the UK pushing for it?

The smaller parties are but the Tories who can get the majority of seats with 36.1% of the votes tends to ignore such reforms.

 

[Jayjay]

I think this is a bad move for both UK and EU.

With Cameron (who promised the referendum) resigning, May would have had the opportunity to say that he did not feel obligated to act on a referendum (which was legalluy non-binding mind you) and initiate such a momentous change based on such a minuscule majority vote.

Alas, she failed to do it and let herself be swept in the inertia of what was happening. May is not so much the Iron Lady, she is Gallium Lady at best.

If May had said she was not obligated by the referendum, she might not have been appointed the prime minister. Keeping in mind that she was against Brexit before the referendum, she is doing a steadfast job of trying to make it work and thinking of Britain.

Is there still a possibility that Brexit might not happen if UK does not get a good enough deal from the EU and it goes to another parliamentary vote?

 

[Jayjay]

Right now, Britain is bluffing that they can get more from the EU for less than they put in now. That is called denial.

While we stay in Europe our factories are at risk from opportunists getting free money from the EU to move factories (creating job losses) into the EU such as

1. Cadbury moves factory from Bristol to Poland with EU grant 2011.

2. Twinings obtains £10 million EU grant for new factory in Eastern Europe.

3. Dyson opens operation in Malaysia with EU Loan.

4. Ford Transit moved to Turkey with EU Grant 2013.

5. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicle to be built in Spain with EU grant, using Swedish steel, at request of EU to support jobs in Spain instead of Wales.

6. TATA Steel (makers of the TATA Nanu) It moved to the UK receiving subsidies. The Pension funds are trashed and now after a few years it is selling what is left of British steel.

I had a list of others including inventions car makers were once mentioned in a couple of threads a few weeks ago.

Yup, everything is always a one-way street for isolationists.

Giving grants to companies to move business out of the UK is hardly fair competition created by the EU. All trade however and agreements with the EU should be a two way street or rather a 28 way street as all are involved. The EU and the UK depend on each other whether or not the UK is in the EU.

The last item of your list is the opposite: it seems that it is a grant given to move production into UK rather than out of it. And I don't really see why you think the other cases are about moving businesses out of UK, rather than grants to UK companies to expand abroad? The money is still going to British corporations, and as your last example shows, one-time grants are not going to move production permanently if it's not otherwise profitable.

 

[TSwizzle]

I think this is a bad move for both UK and EU.

Now it looks like Scotland's First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon is going to formally request another referendum on independence. What a mess.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Right now, Britain is bluffing that they can get more from the EU for less than they put in now. That is called denial.

While we stay in Europe our factories are at risk from opportunists getting free money from the EU to move factories (creating job losses) into the EU such as

1. Cadbury moves factory from Bristol to Poland with EU grant 2011.

2. Twinings obtains £10 million EU grant for new factory in Eastern Europe.

3. Dyson opens operation in Malaysia with EU Loan.

4. Ford Transit moved to Turkey with EU Grant 2013.

5. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicle to be built in Spain with EU grant, using Swedish steel, at request of EU to support jobs in Spain instead of Wales.

6. TATA Steel (makers of the TATA Nanu) It moved to the UK receiving subsidies. The Pension funds are trashed and now after a few years it is selling what is left of British steel.

I had a list of others including inventions car makers were once mentioned in a couple of threads a few weeks ago.

Yup, everything is always a one-way street for isolationists.

Giving grants to companies to move business out of the UK is hardly fair competition created by the EU. All trade however and agreements with the EU should be a two way street or rather a 28 way street as all are involved. The EU and the UK depend on each other whether or not the UK is in the EU.

The last item of your list is the opposite: it seems that it is a grant given to move production into UK rather than out of it. And I don't really see why you think the other cases are about moving businesses out of UK, rather than grants to UK companies to expand abroad? The money is still going to British corporations, and as your last example shows, one-time grants are not going to move production permanently if it's not otherwise profitable.

True a foreign company was given a grant and trashed the pension funds. Now I understand it is being baled out.

 

[iolo]

The current gang didn't stand for Brexit - other than the twicer Johnson - and nobody voted for a Party that is now responsible for what happened. Like all other members, we had a voice in what the EU did, whereas we have no voice in what this gang are doing. It is straight fascism, in which nobody is allowed to speak freely any more, and the Mail and the Murdochites are undermining the rule of law. Enjoy it, muggins!

The people voted for it so they instead of the parties voted for it. A last minute attempt to still push this as an exclusive right of the Europhiliacs in parliament failed. The MPs effectively respect the will of the people. War Criminal Blair, and Major are of course trying to reverse this.

'The people' are not a government, and what they voted for was lying bullshit, as you know. The people now devising policy didn't support the liars at the time, and what they make of 'the people's' verdict is just a guess, like deciding what a drunk meant after ten pints. The British way is to vote for people with a policy, and vote them out if they don't carry it through. This referendum filth is right-wing European crap, as you know