The Asian Advantage

[whichphilosophy]

What you just described there is culture.

You can't separate culture from DNA. Culture is the macro-expression of group DNA.

No. Culture is ideas. There is no question that places like China and Korea have cultural factors favoring learning.

Culture is also behavior. That's genetic.

Not always as we can also choose and choose not to do things.

 

[maxparrish]

Our primary objective is to provide evidence that Asian Americans achieve far beyond the bounds of IQ. But the fact that Chinese and Japanese Americans have mean IQs below Whites, or no higher than Whites, creates a secondary objective. It casts doubt on theories that the Sino- Japanese peoples possess some sort of genetic superiority for IQ, or perhaps intelligence, or perhaps both.

The problem with Flynn's 1991 book is that since its publication a number of studies, many catalogued by Lynn and Vanhanen, reinforce the view that Asians do better than Whites on IQ tests, especially those that are G loaded - regardless of culture setting. When Flynn was asked (recently) if he was still convinced that there's no substantial difference in average IQ between whites and Asians and to explain what's wrong with the recent data he evaded a bit and merely defended his work on his original data set and findings. http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/12/10-questions-for-james-flynn.php

The evidence of superior Asian scoring is now undeniable.

For example, "Lynn and his colleagues carried out a series of reaction time studies on over 1,000 nine-year-old East Asian children in Japan and Hong Kong, White children in Britain and Ireland, and Black children in South Africa (summarized by Lynn
& Vanhannen, 2002, pp. 66–67). The Progressive Matrices were given as a nonverbal test of intelligence, along with the simple, choice, and odd-man-out tasks. Reaction times and variabilities were measured by computer and hence were not subject to any human error in recording." As expected and as correlated with IQ, East Asians mental speed was faster than that of Whites (and Whites faster than that of blacks).

Moreover, "The same pattern of average scores on these and other reaction time tasks (i.e., East Asians faster than Whites faster than Blacks) is found within the United States. Jensen (1993) and Jensen and Whang (1994) examined the time taken by over 400 schoolchildren ages 9 to 12 years old in California ... The average reaction times for the three racial groups differ significantly (see
Figure 2)." The tested IQ scores of these kids correlated with reaction times (Jews 113, East Asians 110, Whites 100, Hispanics 89, Blacks 67).

The one study to date that "has examined East Asian–White difference on psychometric tests as a function of their g loadings; ...confirmed the hypothesis for 15 cognitive tests administered to two generations of Americans of Japanese, Chinese, and European
ancestry. In this case, the more g-loaded the test, the greater the mean East Asian–White group difference favoring East Asians (Nagoshi, Johnson, DeFries, Wilson, & Vandenberg, 1984)."

Overall, "MRI studies show that brain size is related to IQ differences within race. Moreover, the three-way pattern of group differences in average brain size is detectable at birth. By adulthood, East Asians average 1 cubic inch more cranial capacity than Whites, and Whites average 5 cubic inches more cranial capacity than Blacks." This disparity is even greater when adjusted for proportional body size.

Mind you, much or most of this cognative advantage is in specific areas, but it is real. For example, this graphic of SAT Math scores :

The bottom line is that worldwide "East Asians score higher on IQ tests than do Whites, both within the United States
and in Asia, even though IQ tests were developed for use in the Euro American culture (Lynn, 1977, 1978, 1982; P. E. Vernon, 1979, 1982). Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; that for Whites, about 100; and that for Blacks, about 85 in the United States and 70 in sub-Saharan Africa... Hundreds of studies on millions of people have confirmed the three-way racial pattern (Jensen, 1998b; Lynn & Vanhanen, 2002; Rushton, 2000)."

See: https://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf
Graph Link: http://www.amren.com/news/2012/08/the-asian-flynn-effect/

 

[TSwizzle]

Is there an explanation as to why they are such bad drivers ?

 

[nightwyrm]

Is there an explanation as to why they are such bad drivers ?

Don't know if this question is serious, but an answer is that in many Asian countries traffic laws are more like mildly worded suggestions.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Is there an explanation as to why they are such bad drivers ?

Don't know if this question is serious, but an answer is that in many Asian countries traffic laws are more like mildly worded suggestions.

Yeah. If there isn't a cop in sight the basic rule seems to be that you will not hit someone. You can be as assholish as you want, though.

 

[Canard DuJour]

Our primary objective is to provide evidence that Asian Americans achieve far beyond the bounds of IQ. But the fact that Chinese and Japanese Americans have mean IQs below Whites, or no higher than Whites, creates a secondary objective. It casts doubt on theories that the Sino- Japanese peoples possess some sort of genetic superiority for IQ, or perhaps intelligence, or perhaps both.

The problem with Flynn's 1991 book

..uh huh, so when you insisted the problem wasn't with Flynn's research but Gladwell, what you meant was that the problem was with Flynn's research

is that since its publication a number of studies, many catalogued by Lynn and Vanhanen, reinforce the view that Asians do better than Whites on IQ tests, especially those that are G loaded - regardless of culture setting. When Flynn was asked (recently) if he was still convinced that there's no substantial difference in average IQ between whites and Asians and to explain what's wrong with the recent data he evaded a bit and merely defended his work on his original data set and findings. http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/12/10-questions-for-james-flynn.php

No he didn't, he reminded the interviewer of what you evidently fail to grasp. The Flynn Effect doesn't establish or deny any particular rank ordering of IQ test scores (and you could be forgiven for thinking so since so much of Flynn's work has involved correction of Lynn's). Rather, it shows that renormalised scores vary intra-group by as much as, or more than, inter-group variation over time scales as short as a generation or two. It's nigh impossible that this is down to some innate genetic difference, and the determination from IQ test score rankings that inter-group differences of the same or smaller magnitude are, is not a scientific one. Which isn't to say that innate inter-group intelligence differences don't exist.

The evidence of superior Asian scoring is now undeniable.

For example, "Lynn and his colleagues carried out a series of reaction time studies on over 1,000 nine-year-old East Asian children in Japan and Hong Kong, White children in Britain and Ireland, and Black children in South Africa (summarized by Lynn
& Vanhannen, 2002, pp. 66–67). The Progressive Matrices were given as a nonverbal test of intelligence, along with the simple, choice, and odd-man-out tasks. Reaction times and variabilities were measured by computer and hence were not subject to any human error in recording." As expected and as correlated with IQ, East Asians mental speed was faster than that of Whites (and Whites faster than that of blacks).

Moreover, "The same pattern of average scores on these and other reaction time tasks (i.e., East Asians faster than Whites faster than Blacks) is found within the United States. Jensen (1993) and Jensen and Whang (1994) examined the time taken by over 400 schoolchildren ages 9 to 12 years old in California ... The average reaction times for the three racial groups differ significantly (see
Figure 2)." The tested IQ scores of these kids correlated with reaction times (Jews 113, East Asians 110, Whites 100, Hispanics 89, Blacks 67).

The one study to date that "has examined East Asian–White difference on psychometric tests as a function of their g loadings; ...confirmed the hypothesis for 15 cognitive tests administered to two generations of Americans of Japanese, Chinese, and European
ancestry. In this case, the more g-loaded the test, the greater the mean East Asian–White group difference favoring East Asians (Nagoshi, Johnson, DeFries, Wilson, & Vandenberg, 1984)."

Overall, "MRI studies show that brain size is related to IQ differences within race. Moreover, the three-way pattern of group differences in average brain size is detectable at birth. By adulthood, East Asians average 1 cubic inch more cranial capacity than Whites, and Whites average 5 cubic inches more cranial capacity than Blacks." This disparity is even greater when adjusted for proportional body size.

Mind you, much or most of this cognative advantage is in specific areas, but it is real. For example, this graphic of SAT Math scores :

The bottom line is that worldwide "East Asians score higher on IQ tests than do Whites, both within the United States
and in Asia, even though IQ tests were developed for use in the Euro American culture (Lynn, 1977, 1978, 1982; P. E. Vernon, 1979, 1982). Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; that for Whites, about 100; and that for Blacks, about 85 in the United States and 70 in sub-Saharan Africa... Hundreds of studies on millions of people have confirmed the three-way racial pattern (Jensen, 1998b; Lynn & Vanhanen, 2002; Rushton, 2000)."

See: https://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf
Graph Link: http://www.amren.com/news/2012/08/the-asian-flynn-effect/

Any of which might or might not indicate some "problem" with Flynn. Too little information. Even if Lynn were to be trusted, which he plainly isn't.

 

[jladam]

What are Asian Americans doing right?

Asian Americans have the highest average income of any racial group in the U.S.

Asian Americans regularly rank first amongst academic achievement in the U.S.

Asian Americans have the lowest representation in the U.S. prison population.

What are Asian Americans doing right?

I lot of it simply has to do with geography. For Asian immigrants, they have to find the means to travel half way across the world. For the poor and uneducated Asians (of which there are many) they simply do not have the means to make such a long trip. It requires tremendous resources to secure the funds to make such a trip. From a Darwinian perspective, this would favor the highly intelligent and educated. For Mexican immigrants, the only thing required to come to the U.S. is to cross an imaginary line. Therefore, the challenges that prevent poor and uneducated Asians from coming to the United States don’t exist for the same class of immigrants from Mexico.

 

[JonA]

What are Asian Americans doing right?

Asian Americans have the highest average income of any racial group in the U.S.

Asian Americans regularly rank first amongst academic achievement in the U.S.

Asian Americans have the lowest representation in the U.S. prison population.

What are Asian Americans doing right?

I lot of it simply has to do with geography. For Asian immigrants, they have to find the means to travel half way across the world. For the poor and uneducated Asians (of which there are many) they simply do not have the means to make such a long trip. It requires tremendous resources to secure the funds to make such a trip. From a Darwinian perspective, this would favor the highly intelligent and educated. For Mexican immigrants, the only thing required to come to the U.S. is to cross an imaginary line. Therefore, the challenges that prevent poor and uneducated Asians from coming to the United States don’t exist for the same class of immigrants from Mexico.

The problem with that hypothesis is that many of today's Asian Americans are descendants of men and women often brought to the U.S. to serve as cheap labor, sometimes being no better than slaves. As with most non-White, non-Christian groups, they faced constant discrimination and the difficulties of working through a a societal and political system built on the foreign cultural values of English, Roman, and Greek democracy.

And then there is the insane treatment of Japanese Americans during the Second World War.

Asian Americans have not had an easy go of it in the U.S.; certainly not near as easy of a go as their white Euro-American fellow citizens who they today regularly outperform.

The explanation that we simply see the best of the best because that's all that can afford the trip doesn't hold water.

Something else, I think, is behind the success of Asian Americans.

But I'm hesitant to believe that there's an appreciable genetic difference.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Is there an explanation as to why they are such bad drivers ?

Don't know if this question is serious, but an answer is that in many Asian countries traffic laws are more like mildly worded suggestions.

I guess this means when the lights turn from green to amber, step on the gas.

 

[jladam]

The explanation that we simply see the best of the best because that's all that can afford the trip doesn't hold water.

Oh, really? Then I wonder why China's literacy rate is pretty much average for the world and it's exactly the same of that of Mexico's.

 

[maxparrish]

The explanation that we simply see the best of the best because that's all that can afford the trip doesn't hold water.

Oh, really? Then I wonder why China's literacy rate is pretty much average for the world and it's exactly the same of that of Mexico's.

Irrelevant. East Asian verbal abilities are almost identical to that of White Europeans. It is on certain sub-tests that they show superior mathematical and visuospatial abilities.

Would you like to compare those scores to Mexicans (LOL)?

 

[TSwizzle]

The problem with that hypothesis is that many of today's Asian Americans are descendants of men and women often brought to the U.S. to serve as cheap labor, sometimes being no better than slaves. As with most non-White, non-Christian groups, they faced constant discrimination and the difficulties of working through a a societal and political system built on the foreign cultural values of English, Roman, and Greek democracy.

Is there anything that is fucked up in this universe that wasn't the fault of whitey ?

It's a rhetorical question of course.

 

[Nexus]

The explanation that we simply see the best of the best because that's all that can afford the trip doesn't hold water.

Oh, really? Then I wonder why China's literacy rate is pretty much average for the world and it's exactly the same of that of Mexico's.

Literacy in Chinese requires memorization of 3000 characters. Spanish is mostly phonetic with only 27 letters.

 

[arkirk]

And genetic inheritance directs for all those behaviors, same as genetic inheritance directs for you being 6' 2'' tall and not 5' 1" tall.

Genes are not the only influence on behaviour. The environment/nurture also plays a role.

How much influence each of the above has on behaviour has not been resolved as human behavior is complex enough that a quantitative figure could possibly not be placed on these. This is because nature and culture interact in qualitatively different ways.

We seem to blind to the fact that the environment is the measure of not only the intellect of species but also their fitness to survive and...this environment is a bit on the kaleidoscopic side so what seems like it is smart today may indeed turn out to be stupid later when conditions change. This is true with mental capabilities as well as physical traits. So there turns out to be the "intellect" to survive in one environment that really is quite useless in another one. This whole business of survival of species is like a pit stop on nature's road. So when we look at a behavior that doesn't appear to make much sense in our current environment we really must concede that just being fit in a minute sliver of time does not constitute any kind of grand or intrinsic superiority. This is a hard lesson for today's winners to learn. That is why we are currently at the mercy of climate change deniers.

 

[arkirk]

Oh, really? Then I wonder why China's literacy rate is pretty much average for the world and it's exactly the same of that of Mexico's.

Irrelevant. East Asian verbal abilities are almost identical to that of White Europeans. It is on certain sub-tests that they show superior mathematical and visuospatial abilities.

Would you like to compare those scores to Mexicans (LOL)?

You really BELIEVE in racial superiority don't you? Sure looks that way to me. Ask yourself where you get the ideas about how to measure intelligence..visuospacial "abilities" and mathematics. These are tools of civilized socialized being....always when you operate in the realm of rating others in skills, you assume you have these skills at a level sufficiently superior to those you rate in order to give yourself the right to rate them.