Jakarta's Christian governor Ahok found guilty in Islam blasphemy trial

[dismal]

Jakarta's Christian governor Ahok found guilty in Islam blasphemy trial

In a tense trial that was widely seen as a test of religious tolerance in the world's largest Muslim-majority nation, Basuki Tjahaja Purnama, also known as Ahok, was "found to have legitimately and convincingly conducted a criminal act of blasphemy, and because of that we have imposed two years of imprisonment", head judge Dwiarso Budi Santiarto told the court.

Ahok was charged with blasphemy after he said clerics had used a Koranic verse to mislead voters by telling them that Muslims were not allowed to vote for a Christian.

He has denied wrongdoing, and said he was not criticising the Koran, but rather the clerics' interpretation of the verse.

The sentence was harsher than expected and will come as a shock to many of his supporters. TV news coverage of the scene outside the court showed some supporters weeping.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-...-ahok-found-guilty-in-blasphemy-trial/8509936

On the surface, this seems pretty bad for those who believe in secular liberal ideals like free speech, minority rights, freedom of religion, non-criminalization of political differences, and separation of church and state.

But I'm sure I can come to a secular atheist website and be told what I'm missing.

Or at least be told I'm not supposed to talk about it.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Shh, you are not supposed to talk about this.

 

[dismal]

NY Times story has more details. Including this:

Blasphemy is a crime in Indonesia, a secular democracy with the world’s largest Muslim population. The sentence was harsher than what prosecutors had asked for; they had recommended two years’ probation on a lesser charge, which would have spared Mr. Basuki prison time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/09/...uki-tjahaja-purnama-blasphemy-islam.html?_r=0

I'm not sure if that first part is intentionally ironic.

 

[funinspace]

By all means, lets have the US Navy Seals storm in and free this persecuted governor...

 

[Keith&Co.]

On the surface, this seems pretty bad for those who believe in secular liberal ideals like free speech, minority rights, freedom of religion, non-criminalization of political differences, and separation of church and state.

Strangely, I don't see it as bad for those that actually believe in the actual separation of church and state.
A state blasphemy trial is really the opposite of secular, at least as I understand the term.

So, no. Not bad. They do things different over there, but it has absolutely no reflection on how we do, or want to do, it here.

 

[untermensche]

Yes, humans will tend to thuggery if allowed.

A wall between church and state is a great thing.

Is there any other point here?

Was the US terrorist attack of the Iraqi people that gave us ISIS now justified?

 

[Derec]

Yes, humans will tend to thuggery if allowed.

And Muslim majority countries, even supposedly 'moderate' ones, will tend to Islamism sooner or later. Recently, not just Indonesia, but also Turkey. In the future, France, Germany, Sweden ...

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Of course. Blasphemy is far more about offending the religious powers that be rather than the religion itself.

Criticizing the words of a religious figure thus is blasphemy.

 

[barbos]

Yes, humans will tend to thuggery if allowed.

And Muslim majority countries, even supposedly 'moderate' ones, will tend to Islamism sooner or later. Recently, not just Indonesia, but also Turkey. In the future, France, Germany, Sweden ...

They ARE moderate, compared to Saudi Arabia and Islamic State

 

[Valjean]

Kind of like the woman arrested for laughing at Attorney General Jeff Sessions' remark during a Senate hearing.

Authoritarians demand respect for authority, regardless of country.

 

[iolo]

While the US supports the smelly Saudi regime, this sort of thing will get worse and worse. They are spending vast sums on propagating their ghastly form of Islam everywhere.

 

[barbos]

Kind of like the woman arrested for laughing at Attorney General Jeff Sessions' remark during a Senate hearing.

Authoritarians demand respect for authority, regardless of country.

Plus they give no respect for people who actually deserve it.

 

[Axulus]

Yes, humans will tend to thuggery if allowed.

A wall between church and state is a great thing.

Is there any other point here?

Was the US terrorist attack of the Iraqi people that gave us ISIS now justified?

This justifies the Bay of Pigs, at a minimum. Maybe even Abu Ghraib. Probably not GBU-43 bomb, though. Saudi Arabia is happy as this now justifies Raif Badawi.

 

[untermensche]

Yes, humans will tend to thuggery if allowed.

A wall between church and state is a great thing.

Is there any other point here?

Was the US terrorist attack of the Iraqi people that gave us ISIS now justified?

This justifies the Bay of Pigs, at a minimum. Maybe even Abu Ghraib. Probably not GBU-43 bomb, though. Saudi Arabia is happy as this now justifies Raif Badawi.

It does not justify any US attack or torture of anybody.

 

[Axulus]

This justifies the Bay of Pigs, at a minimum. Maybe even Abu Ghraib. Probably not GBU-43 bomb, though. Saudi Arabia is happy as this now justifies Raif Badawi.

It does not justify any US attack or torture of anybody.

Silly questions get silly responses.

 

[untermensche]

It does not justify any US attack or torture of anybody.

Silly questions get silly responses.

Nothing silly about the question.

It is what many Americans did as a response to things like the ones mentioned in this thread.

The point is, while the world is not perfect, US action generally does not make anything better.

 

[dismal]

Silly questions get silly responses.

Nothing silly about the question.

It is what many Americans did as a response to things like the ones mentioned in this thread.

The point is, while the world is not perfect, US action generally does not make anything better.

It's possible this thread is a discussion about recent events in Indonesia.

 

[Derec]

Kind of like the woman arrested for laughing at Attorney General Jeff Sessions' remark during a Senate hearing.
Authoritarians demand respect for authority, regardless of country.

Not like it at all. That Code Pinko idiot wasn't prosecuted for the content of her speech, but for disrupting behavior in the Senate. Very different things.

 

[untermensche]

Nothing silly about the question.

It is what many Americans did as a response to things like the ones mentioned in this thread.

The point is, while the world is not perfect, US action generally does not make anything better.

It's possible this thread is a discussion about recent events in Indonesia.

And what are we to do about them?

Cry ourselves to sleep?

 

[dismal]

It's possible this thread is a discussion about recent events in Indonesia.

And what are we to do about them?

Cry ourselves to sleep?

This is a political discussion forum. So we have discussions about political events.

Some of us even manage to discuss the event that is the topic of the thread.