I would like to discuss Islam and its role in many of the modern conflicts we see today.
I've spent many years discussing with christians about evolution and science, however today it seems that discussing islam is a bit more urgent.
I actually don't know too much about this subject but I know discussion is a good way of learning, so let's begin.
First, I'd like to list a few questions that I want to get some answers to.
1. What's to blame for islamic terrorism; a litterate reading of the Quran, or the fact that USA & the west are bombing the middle east causing anger?
If it's a combination, how would you describe the balance between the two?
2. Is islamic terroris, jihadism & the ideology of Al Qaeda/isis/other groups a modern phenomena?
Some claim that islam has been "spread by the sword since the beginning", some claim that all this is a perverted form of Islam that is being used for purely political reasons and not religious reasons.
3. What is the main reason why Islam differs so much in regard to terrorism, extremism and society in relation to christianity, the bible also have alot of crazy rules about stoning people for various "crimes".
4. Of all terrorism in the world, how many percent is islamic terrorism?
By giving you my analysis, I hope to correct any misunderstandings that I might have.
So by everything I've read, it seems that the Quran is generally being viewed as a litterate quote by God (Allah), given to Muhammed. In relation, christians in general view the Bible more as written by human beings, inspired by God. Because the Quran is being viewed as Gods litterate word, the Sharia is being viewed as Gods law, which cannot be replaced with human laws (democracy). That's the reason why Islamism exists, the will to establish a society based on Gods laws. This ideology exists not only in countries where there's been alot of war, but also in first world countries for example in Europe. People I've discussed with always turn away from the discussion about islamism by giving me a list of evil things that America have done in the middle east, and telling me that it's not surprising at all that ISIS exists after what USA have done. However, after watching alot of interviews with ISIS-warriors, I have to conclude that they are purely driven by the wish of reaching paradise. Paradise is all they talk about. I can perhaps understand that extremism is growing faster and more aggressively in countries which lies in ruins after being bombed by infidels. So I'm totally open for the idea that the west/USA have a role in this, but I still see the importance of not ignoring the religious components of the problem. The islamist ideology exists globally, not only in countries where USA have bombed. But jihadism is the violent form of islamism, where islamists protect their faith by force. Doing that is the best thing you can do for Allah, and it's rewarded by 72 virgins in paradise. Is it correct to say that jihadism is a result of the west/USA interfering in the middle east, but that islamism also is an important explaination. I guess that if jihadism is the drive to defend islam, you could blame those who invoke that anger by dropping bombs. But because jihadism is built upon islamism, no one can claim that the explaination is purely politics but also religion.
I'd also like to add a quite convincing evidence for the fact that it has to do with their fight for reaching paradise. The kurdish forces are recruiting female soldiers against ISIS, and since ISIS think that they will not get to paradise if they are killed by a woman, they run for their lives when they see a female soldier. If the religion was only a propaganda tool, this wouldn't happen. Their irrational behaviour is evidence for the fact that religion plays a role in all this.
In addition, there seem to be a civil war within Islam. Sunni vs shia, and other forms like salafism, wahhabism ect. As far as I know, jihadism is being used against "false muslims", those who doesn't interpret the Quran in the correct way. I've discussed with a sunni muslim who doesn't even recognize shia muslims as muslims. Most of the victims of jihadism and suicide bombers are muslims, so is it really correct to say that the west have provoked all this?
I've seen some polls about islamist opinions, for example these: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Opinion-Polls.htm
If they are correct, then I must say that "critics of islam critizism" have a point when they say that, "well, there are 1.5 billion muslims in the world, there should be alot more terrorism and suicide bombings if this were the case. Most muslims are peaceful and do not agree with this at all".
Finally I'd like to add this to the discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration_on_Human_Rights_in_Islam
The Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam. Is it as scary as it sounds? That most islamic countries in the world have signed a declaration which states that human rights should be based on the Sharia.
Everytime I discuss this with people I notice it provokes them. They are more willing to discuss islamophobia, critizism of USA & the west, and to defend islam in various ways.
I think that they are not aware that Islam means submission and that not every religion is alike. As Sam Harris put it, "religion is like sports, there's badminton and there's thai boxing".
There's a big problem that political faschist parties are the only ones talking about this, thereby everyone else feel like they have to distance themselves from the question in order to not risk being called racists or something like that. What they forget is that the skeptic movement also talks about it, but I guess they do not talk about it enough.
Hope to get an interesting discussion in this thread, hope that I can learn some stuff and sort out any misunderstanding that I might have.
I've spent many years discussing with christians about evolution and science, however today it seems that discussing islam is a bit more urgent.
I actually don't know too much about this subject but I know discussion is a good way of learning, so let's begin.
First, I'd like to list a few questions that I want to get some answers to.
1. What's to blame for islamic terrorism; a litterate reading of the Quran, or the fact that USA & the west are bombing the middle east causing anger?
If it's a combination, how would you describe the balance between the two?
2. Is islamic terroris, jihadism & the ideology of Al Qaeda/isis/other groups a modern phenomena?
Some claim that islam has been "spread by the sword since the beginning", some claim that all this is a perverted form of Islam that is being used for purely political reasons and not religious reasons.
3. What is the main reason why Islam differs so much in regard to terrorism, extremism and society in relation to christianity, the bible also have alot of crazy rules about stoning people for various "crimes".
4. Of all terrorism in the world, how many percent is islamic terrorism?
By giving you my analysis, I hope to correct any misunderstandings that I might have.
So by everything I've read, it seems that the Quran is generally being viewed as a litterate quote by God (Allah), given to Muhammed. In relation, christians in general view the Bible more as written by human beings, inspired by God. Because the Quran is being viewed as Gods litterate word, the Sharia is being viewed as Gods law, which cannot be replaced with human laws (democracy). That's the reason why Islamism exists, the will to establish a society based on Gods laws. This ideology exists not only in countries where there's been alot of war, but also in first world countries for example in Europe. People I've discussed with always turn away from the discussion about islamism by giving me a list of evil things that America have done in the middle east, and telling me that it's not surprising at all that ISIS exists after what USA have done. However, after watching alot of interviews with ISIS-warriors, I have to conclude that they are purely driven by the wish of reaching paradise. Paradise is all they talk about. I can perhaps understand that extremism is growing faster and more aggressively in countries which lies in ruins after being bombed by infidels. So I'm totally open for the idea that the west/USA have a role in this, but I still see the importance of not ignoring the religious components of the problem. The islamist ideology exists globally, not only in countries where USA have bombed. But jihadism is the violent form of islamism, where islamists protect their faith by force. Doing that is the best thing you can do for Allah, and it's rewarded by 72 virgins in paradise. Is it correct to say that jihadism is a result of the west/USA interfering in the middle east, but that islamism also is an important explaination. I guess that if jihadism is the drive to defend islam, you could blame those who invoke that anger by dropping bombs. But because jihadism is built upon islamism, no one can claim that the explaination is purely politics but also religion.
I'd also like to add a quite convincing evidence for the fact that it has to do with their fight for reaching paradise. The kurdish forces are recruiting female soldiers against ISIS, and since ISIS think that they will not get to paradise if they are killed by a woman, they run for their lives when they see a female soldier. If the religion was only a propaganda tool, this wouldn't happen. Their irrational behaviour is evidence for the fact that religion plays a role in all this.
In addition, there seem to be a civil war within Islam. Sunni vs shia, and other forms like salafism, wahhabism ect. As far as I know, jihadism is being used against "false muslims", those who doesn't interpret the Quran in the correct way. I've discussed with a sunni muslim who doesn't even recognize shia muslims as muslims. Most of the victims of jihadism and suicide bombers are muslims, so is it really correct to say that the west have provoked all this?
I've seen some polls about islamist opinions, for example these: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Opinion-Polls.htm
If they are correct, then I must say that "critics of islam critizism" have a point when they say that, "well, there are 1.5 billion muslims in the world, there should be alot more terrorism and suicide bombings if this were the case. Most muslims are peaceful and do not agree with this at all".
Finally I'd like to add this to the discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration_on_Human_Rights_in_Islam
The Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam. Is it as scary as it sounds? That most islamic countries in the world have signed a declaration which states that human rights should be based on the Sharia.
Everytime I discuss this with people I notice it provokes them. They are more willing to discuss islamophobia, critizism of USA & the west, and to defend islam in various ways.
I think that they are not aware that Islam means submission and that not every religion is alike. As Sam Harris put it, "religion is like sports, there's badminton and there's thai boxing".
There's a big problem that political faschist parties are the only ones talking about this, thereby everyone else feel like they have to distance themselves from the question in order to not risk being called racists or something like that. What they forget is that the skeptic movement also talks about it, but I guess they do not talk about it enough.
Hope to get an interesting discussion in this thread, hope that I can learn some stuff and sort out any misunderstanding that I might have.
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