If the Poor Knew How Rich Rich People Are...

[funinspace]

As I was watching the video in the OP, I was reminded of a conversation I recently had in the supermarket.

I was in The Fresh Market. I don't usually shop there, but they had sweet potatoes on sale and this particular variety candies really well, so I was in line at the check out with my bag of sweet potatoes and I notice the woman in front of me also had a bag and we started talking. We soon were discussing a disturbing trend in modern life, paying the premium for what used to be the standard. The Fresh Market, like its competitors Whole Foods and Trader Joe's, is basically selling to a select group of people what the Safeway and A&P used to sell to everyone and they are doing it at price point that keeps swaths of the population out of their stores.

So the Walmart (or whatever lower end grocery store one has) has a good selection of bacon without hormones, antibiotics, and isn’t cured? Or has a selection of pork that hasn’t been raised in a factory? Or a good selection of organic vegetables? Sure some of the other stuff comes at a premium, that kind of goes with the territory. There have always been frou-frou stores such as bakeries, meat markets, and other specialty stores. My parents would on rare occasion get some really nice meat from a nearby butcher shop (and it wasn’t Walmart prices). Now this kind of food seems to come in larger one stop shops more often than not. Though specialty shops still exist. FWIW, we get most all of our meat in bulk orders from a farm that is about an hour away from us. Which also employs a local butcher shop. The world keeps a changing…

The same is true of airline travel. I remember my first airplane trip. My mom took me to Thalhimers Dept. Store to buy a traveling outfit. It was gorgeous and I was gorgeous in it. Every kid in my neighborhood was green with envy because little 8 year old me was about to embark on an adventure. I was going to fly, like the people on TV. I remember walking through National Airport and this time we weren't meeting someone getting off the plane, we were getting on. Everyone was so friendly, so helpful, and so complimentary of my outfit. On the plane, the flight attendant called me Miss and brought me treats. The pilot came back and talked to us and even gave me my own set of wings because he had heard it was my first flight. I felt like a princess. I knew then that I wanted to fly everywhere when I grew up. I wanted to fly around the world.

If I had to guess, I’ll bet your story came in the day when flying was much more of a luxury. I’m 51, so I can partially relate to that time. My parents moved across the country from their family a little before I was born. So we flew back roughly every 3-4 years (about 4 times) when I was growing up. We never flew anywhere else. My mommy didn’t buy me a special traveling outfit, even though she could afford it. Flying has become more a transportation utility, as most people prefer saving money over trinkets during a 2-6 hour window of travel. Our son has flown with us to Hawaii twice, once to DC, once to the Midwest to see my wife’s extended family, and about 4 times to my parent’s state. My wife and I have flown to Mexico, and a few other places in the US over the years without our son. And we never bother with paying for first class...

A decent summary of the changing airline world:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business...50-in-30-years-and-why-nobody-noticed/273506/

Airfares have fallen by about 50 percent since 1978…
<snip>
Before 1978, the airlines played by Washington's rules. The government determined whether a new airline could fly to a certain city, charge a certain price, or even exist in the first place. With limited competition, airlines were guaranteed a profit, and they lavished flyers with expensive services paid with expensive airfares. The silver and cloth came at a predictable price: The vast majority of Americans couldn't afford to fly, at all.
<snip>
-- In 1965, no more than 20 percent of Americans had ever flown in an airplane. By 2000, 50 percent of the country took at least one round-trip flight a year. The average was two round-trip tickets.
<snip>
-- In 1974, it was illegal for an airline to charge less than $1,442 in inflation-adjusted dollars for a flight between New York City and Los Angeles. On Kayak, just now, I found one for $278.

Today, I hate flying. The lines are long, no one is friendly and traveling outfits? what are they?

Yeah, I don’t like flying that much either. However, part of that is the fallout from 9/11, as security used to be too lax. Now it is probably too convoluted. I run into friendly people and airline staff when flying, but I find people are pretty similar in airports/planes as they are at stadiums, in buses, or in malls. Though the TSA could use some common decency training. And to be blunt, and speaking only for myself, who gives a crap about traveling outfits. Yeah, I’m a guy.

Now some people will say that there is a lack of civility in modern life because people today just are meaner than they used to be. There may be some truth to that but that's not the whole truth. We have engineered our society, or allowed our society to be engineered, in such a way that we reserved for the rich not just the silly perks of wealth, but also things like common courtesy and leg room, the things that used to be the standard.

I don’t think people are any less civil than they were 30-35 years ago. So go ahead and pay $1,442 for a first class ticket from NY to LA, and you will have your perky leg room back. But you probably won’t even have to pay nearly that much for that first class leg room….

And that is why the poor will someday riot and storm the gates of golf course communities. Not because they want neck massages and access to the champagne room, but because they want elbow room in the middle seat.

Wow, so the poor are going to someday riot over lack of access to cheap first class air tickets….you sure about this?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

So the Walmart (or whatever lower end grocery store one has) has a good selection of bacon without hormones, antibiotics, and isn’t cured? Or has a selection of pork that hasn’t been raised in a factory? Or a good selection of organic vegetables? Sure some of the other stuff comes at a premium, that kind of goes with the territory. There have always been frou-frou stores such as bakeries, meat markets, and other specialty stores. My parents would on rare occasion get some really nice meat from a nearby butcher shop (and it wasn’t Walmart prices). Now this kind of food seems to come in larger one stop shops more often than not. Though specialty shops still exist. FWIW, we get most all of our meat in bulk orders from a farm that is about an hour away from us. Which also employs a local butcher shop. The world keeps a changing…

The same is true of airline travel. I remember my first airplane trip. My mom took me to Thalhimers Dept. Store to buy a traveling outfit. It was gorgeous and I was gorgeous in it. Every kid in my neighborhood was green with envy because little 8 year old me was about to embark on an adventure. I was going to fly, like the people on TV. I remember walking through National Airport and this time we weren't meeting someone getting off the plane, we were getting on. Everyone was so friendly, so helpful, and so complimentary of my outfit. On the plane, the flight attendant called me Miss and brought me treats. The pilot came back and talked to us and even gave me my own set of wings because he had heard it was my first flight. I felt like a princess. I knew then that I wanted to fly everywhere when I grew up. I wanted to fly around the world.

If I had to guess, I’ll bet your story came in the day when flying was much more of a luxury. I’m 51, so I can partially relate to that time. My parents moved across the country from their family a little before I was born. So we flew back roughly every 3-4 years (about 4 times) when I was growing up. We never flew anywhere else. My mommy didn’t buy me a special traveling outfit, even though she could afford it. Flying has become more a transportation utility, as most people prefer saving money over trinkets during a 2-6 hour window of travel. Our son has flown with us to Hawaii twice, once to DC, once to the Midwest to see my wife’s extended family, and about 4 times to my parent’s state. My wife and I have flown to Mexico, and a few other places in the US over the years without our son. And we never bother with paying for first class...

A decent summary of the changing airline world:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business...50-in-30-years-and-why-nobody-noticed/273506/

Airfares have fallen by about 50 percent since 1978…
<snip>
Before 1978, the airlines played by Washington's rules. The government determined whether a new airline could fly to a certain city, charge a certain price, or even exist in the first place. With limited competition, airlines were guaranteed a profit, and they lavished flyers with expensive services paid with expensive airfares. The silver and cloth came at a predictable price: The vast majority of Americans couldn't afford to fly, at all.
<snip>
-- In 1965, no more than 20 percent of Americans had ever flown in an airplane. By 2000, 50 percent of the country took at least one round-trip flight a year. The average was two round-trip tickets.
<snip>
-- In 1974, it was illegal for an airline to charge less than $1,442 in inflation-adjusted dollars for a flight between New York City and Los Angeles. On Kayak, just now, I found one for $278.

Today, I hate flying. The lines are long, no one is friendly and traveling outfits? what are they?

Yeah, I don’t like flying that much either. However, part of that is the fallout from 9/11, as security used to be too lax. Now it is probably too convoluted. I run into friendly people and airline staff when flying, but I find people are pretty similar in airports/planes as they are at stadiums, in buses, or in malls. Though the TSA could use some common decency training. And to be blunt, and speaking only for myself, who gives a crap about traveling outfits. Yeah, I’m a guy.

Now some people will say that there is a lack of civility in modern life because people today just are meaner than they used to be. There may be some truth to that but that's not the whole truth. We have engineered our society, or allowed our society to be engineered, in such a way that we reserved for the rich not just the silly perks of wealth, but also things like common courtesy and leg room, the things that used to be the standard.

I don’t think people are any less civil than they were 30-35 years ago. So go ahead and pay $1,442 for a first class ticket from NY to LA, and you will have your perky leg room back. But you probably won’t even have to pay nearly that much for that first class leg room….

And that is why the poor will someday riot and storm the gates of golf course communities. Not because they want neck massages and access to the champagne room, but because they want elbow room in the middle seat.

Wow, so the poor are going to someday riot over lack of access to cheap first class air tickets….you sure about this?

and the point of this?

 

[funinspace]

and the point of this?

It appears that you are having kind of a glass-half-empty kind of week, if I had to guess...I found your anecdotal tales to be kind of weird and stuck in the very negative side of thinking, so I pointed out how I thought your thinking was skewed.

I found the Chris Rock commentary to be rather stupid, so I didn't even bother commenting on that part. I'm not talking about the income/wealth inequality gap either. Just his comments. Virgin Air isn't giving stuff away to the rich. The rich pay dearly for those perks via very high ticket prices. Maybe Rock has gotten so rich, he can't see straight....

 

[Crazy Eddie]

What is about poor people rioting as a way to express their displeasure with something? Especially in their own community. It's like me saying, "Dang... I didn't get that promotion. Think I'll go vandalize the kids' playground down the street". Wouldn't it be better and more productive if I just worked harder instead so maybe I'l get it next time? Or try to get a new job?

No. It actually wouldn't.

In a choice between quiet desperation and violent desperation, sometimes the desperate turn to violence. In the latter case, at least their perceived oppressors can no longer ignore their suffering.

I guess I could kinda see why the poor people would riot in a rich people's neighborhood because they're jealous that the rich people have nice cars and Xbox's and eat caviar and stuff, but it still seems wrong overall.

A child throws a tantrum because he doesn't know a more constructive way of expressing his emotions. An adult throws a tantrum (in the form of a riot or a mass shooting) for the same reason.

Where an entire class of people are conditioned to the mostly-correct belief that society will go out of its way to ignore them under all but the most dire circumstances, destructive forms of expression are much more common.

 

[lpetrich]

What is about poor people rioting as a way to express their displeasure with something? Especially in their own community. It's like me saying, "Dang... I didn't get that promotion. Think I'll go vandalize the kids' playground down the street". Wouldn't it be better and more productive if I just worked harder instead so maybe I'l get it next time? Or try to get a new job?

I will concede that rioting is not a good form of activism. Neither is being a masochistic workaholic doormat. One ought to get organized and start some nice good labor activism. As various groups of low-paid workers are starting to do.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

What is about poor people rioting as a way to express their displeasure with something? Especially in their own community. It's like me saying, "Dang... I didn't get that promotion. Think I'll go vandalize the kids' playground down the street". Wouldn't it be better and more productive if I just worked harder instead so maybe I'l get it next time? Or try to get a new job?

I will concede that rioting is not a good form of activism. Neither is being a masochistic workaholic doormat. One ought to get organized and start some nice good labor activism. As various groups of low-paid workers are starting to do.

But... but... but... Unions are the problem!

 

[lpetrich]

I will concede that rioting is not a good form of activism. Neither is being a masochistic workaholic doormat. One ought to get organized and start some nice good labor activism. As various groups of low-paid workers are starting to do.

But... but... but... Unions are the problem!

Lots of moaning and groaning about how unions just want more, more, more, with the ultimate goal of driving their companies into bankruptcy. Does the author want less, less, less for his work?

He also sneered at labor unions as a 19th cy. solution, like high-speed trains. Except that hundreds of high-speed trains are running on thousands of mi/km of trackage in eastern and western Eurasia with great success.

 

[untermensche]

It's a bunch of nonsense that people give a damn what perks the rich get.

Let them get their perks.

But only AFTER we have a decent healthcare system, a decent educational system including what the rest of the civilized world is moving towards, highly subsidized college education, a decent system of maintaining and improving infrastructure and a strong effort to develop alternative energy sources, even if that means losing money now and then.

And also increases in wages as productivity and profits rise.

And cease with the endless foreign wars.

Make society decent and nobody gives a damn what perks the rich get.

But turn society into a shithole with endless wars, poor or highly costly education, crumbling infrastructure, stagnant wages, a third rate healthcare insurance system, shrinking opportunity and people who are already angry will lash out at any extravagance, even if it is overpriced meaninglessness.

 

[Axulus]

Maybe Jimmy isn't a sociopath and that's why he didn't do the things you suggest.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Nexus again.

Oil speculators are all sociopaths? Are you serious? What kind of illogic are you using to agree with that conclusion?

 

[untermensche]

But... but... but... Unions are the problem!

Lots of moaning and groaning about how unions just want more, more, more, with the ultimate goal of driving their companies into bankruptcy. Does the author want less, less, less for his work?

He also sneered at labor unions as a 19th cy. solution, like high-speed trains. Except that hundreds of high-speed trains are running on thousands of mi/km of trackage in eastern and western Eurasia with great success.

The author claims it is the greed of the unions that bankrupted the companies.

Utter nonsense.

The bursting of the housing bubble caused by malfeasance in the mortgage market, reduced credit, dramatically slowed economic growth, and threw millions out of work in the process.

This of course caused people to buy less cars and led to the bankrupting of GM that wasn't doing very well anyway which wasn't the fault of the unions, it was the fault of management.

The way US sycophants to capitalism work is they blame any poor performance by management, or any extraneous circumstances, like an economy ruined by greed at the top, on the unions. Every thing is the fault of the unions who only negotiate, they do not take, as those at the top of corporations do without any end to their greed.

 

[BH]

Why doesn't he sneer at the corporate owners always wanting more and more and more until they overexpand and collapse or have to shut down lots of stores or factories? Money and investment lost.

Why is it wrong for the "union" to always want more and more for its workers but it is okay for the corporate owner to always want more and more.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

With the result that poor people who don't know any better hear nothing but negative messages about how unions don't work and are part of the problem anyway.

Add to that the fact that for many workers their very first experience with "the unions" is when their bosses inform them that they will be deducting ten percent of their paychecks for union dues whether they like it or not.

Add to that the fact that unions have historically (and in some cases, still today) avoid having any contact whatsoever with black people or "low bread" white people.

When you see someone lying on the ground, violently thrashing around, clawing at your leg and screaming obscenities at the top of his lungs, it may be a time to take a good long look at yourself and ask "Perhaps I should NOT be standing on his balls?"

 

[BH]

I never understood why it was okay to draft striking workers in the name of the common good into being forced to work at their jobs during a supposed national crisis here in the states but not okay to draft former corporate owners and management into working for the common good in the old communist block. Come on people (generic "people" not board members here), get consistent. I think the arguments are just blowing smoke. Arguing for arguments sake and hoping no one figures out that is what it is..

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I never understood why it was okay to draft striking workers in the name of the common good into being forced to work at their jobs during a supposed national crisis here in the states but not okay to draft former corporate owners and management into working for the common good in the old communist block. Come on people (generic "people" not board members here), get consistent. I think the arguments are just blowing smoke. Arguing for arguments sake and hoping no one figures out that is what it is..

The primary difference between Soviet Communism and American Capitalism is the identities of the people pulling the strings. Soviet Communism was really just thinly veiled crony capitalism; American capitalism is not so thinly veiled.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I love how the poor are always told to work harder, but the wealthy are told to work and/or invest smarter.

And oh how rioting is such a mystery, and yet the same people who can't understand why people riot, seem to always know when the riot is going to happen.

I love America

 

[EricK]

And oh how rioting is such a mystery, and yet the same people who can't understand why people riot, seem to always know when the riot is going to happen.

It's a complete mystery to me why people go to church - but I can predict when it is going to happen.

 

[untermensche]

Add to that the fact that for many workers their very first experience with "the unions" is when their bosses inform them that they will be deducting ten percent of their paychecks for union dues whether they like it or not.

The problem is not that dues are mandatory, since the increased bargaining power of a union increases wages.

The problem is when union dues are misused, and everybody agrees that this happens.

The way you prevent union dues from being misspent is through transparency and increased democratic control of the unions.

But the fact that some union leaders have been corrupt and have misspent union dues is no excuse for a person wanting to shirk their share of maintaining the union.

Without unions owners walk all over workers. We see it over and over again. It is so widespread most people think being misused and abused is simply part of the real world.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

And oh how rioting is such a mystery, and yet the same people who can't understand why people riot, seem to always know when the riot is going to happen.

It's a complete mystery to me why people go to church - but I can predict when it is going to happen.

I doubt that you don't know why people go to church

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Add to that the fact that for many workers their very first experience with "the unions" is when their bosses inform them that they will be deducting ten percent of their paychecks for union dues whether they like it or not.

The problem is not that dues are mandatory, since the increased bargaining power of a union increases wages.

The problem is when union dues are misused, and everybody agrees that this happens.

I think you're misunderstanding the fact that I put "the unions" in quotes.

There is an increasingly common phenomenon in retail sales where an employer actually sets up a so-called "employees union" that his employees are required to be part of in order to work for them. In theory, these phantom unions are a collective that represents the retail employees in dealings with the franchise owner's corporate higher-ups; in practice, the employer just pockets the money knowing full well that his barely-educated minimum-wage employees will either quit or get themselves fired inside of a year.

I actually had this happen to me twice when I was younger, once when I worked for Starbucks and later working at a local grocery store. In the former case, I actually demanded to speak to my union rep to ask why they were taking money out of my check without ever having invited me to a meeting or known anything about me; I was dismayed to discover that the union rep was my boss' wife.

But the fact that some union leaders have been corrupt and have misspent union dues is no excuse for a person wanting to shirk their share of maintaining the union.

Legit unions have something of an image problem and it's a self-inflicted wound. New members are expected to pay dues for a certain requisite period of time or up to a certain point, before which the union does absolutely nothing for them and doesn't even acknowledge their existence. This is part of the reason scam unions (setup by employers just to be dicks) slip under the radar as often as they do, because a scam union is, to most employees, indistinguishable from a neglectful one.

If unions want to rescue their image, they need to do it one worker at a time. Recruiting new members, introducing themselves to new employees, explaining person-to-person exactly where their dues are going, what the union is doing for them, and how they're all going to work together to improve everyone's careers and working conditions. Some unions aren't all that interested in doing that, and that is to the detriment of everyone, especially the people they are working to help.

 

[DBT]

And oh how rioting is such a mystery, and yet the same people who can't understand why people riot, seem to always know when the riot is going to happen.

It's a complete mystery to me why people go to church - but I can predict when it is going to happen.

If you go to church, you should have some understanding of why you yourself go to church. If you have some understanding of why you yourself go to church, it's a fair assumption that others go for similar reasons. Therefore you must have some understanding of why people go to church.