Charlottesville: video evidence that the alt-right attacked first

[ksen]

wtf did they think would happen in Boston.

 

[Keith&Co.]

wtf did they think would happen in Boston.

They probably had high hopes.
The state is nowhere near as blue as other states like to think. We keep electing Republican governors, for instance. Romney was here, desperately trying not to be the governor of the first state with gay marriage.
And a lot of the people in the state supported him.
A whole bunch of my coworkers and neighbors and fellow townsmen are as conservative as the Idaho town i grew up in.

The organizers probably hoped they could tap into the great unrest of all the people dissatisified with the general dirrection the country's going. And they probably could have, if it weren't for having to drive in Boston Traffic...

 

[Bomb#20]

Antifa's only ideology is to directly confront fascists. Antifa has no interest in pushing any governmental policy.

Thanks for the attempt but that doesn't really say anything other than I stated if, as I have been told in interviews, they identify fascists as white men who run the businesses and government that is oppressing them.

They shut down Portland's annual Rose Parade because it had allowed the local Republican Party to sign up for its 67th marching spot.

(Source: Washington Post)

Their ideology appears to be to directly confront anybody they define as "fascist", and all it takes to get them to define you as "fascist" is fail to boycott everybody else they define as "fascist."

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

More accurately, to be a fascist, you have to be something other than an anarcho-communist. That is why in Berkeley an Antifa member wrote the graffiti "liberals get the bullet too."

 

[skepticalbip]

care to link the interviews?

I don’t have an internet link because I got my understanding (such as it is) through actually talking with some of antifa’s foot soldiers. I talked with quite a few and found they had no idea what fascism actually means. A few accused me of being a fascist and oppressing them (I happen to be a cisgender libertarian white male).

because everything I've read says they go after fascist groups that try to spread their message, i.e. neo-nazi groups holding rallies.

That's it.

Again, not actually knowing what fascism is means they “go after” anything what they disagree with. I find it hard to imagine that the property destruction at Berkley was confronting fascism. Or the destruction in DC as confronting fascism.

Antifa leaves government and business protesting to other groups.

That may have been their earlier incarnation but today they seem to be used as the militant arm of the Democrats “resisist” movement.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I don’t have an internet link because I got my understanding (such as it is) through actually talking with some of antifa’s foot soldiers.

When you said you were a cisgender libertarian white male I almost decided to tell you I was a member of antifa, too. So what were their names, how old were they, and where were they from?

 

[skepticalbip]

Boston Alt-right rally
Alt-right attendees 20
Anti alt-right 20,000

I have no idea what your point is.

Lynch mob:
Black men 1
Angry mob 175

 

[skepticalbip]

I don’t have an internet link because I got my understanding (such as it is) through actually talking with some of antifa’s foot soldiers.

When you said you were a cisgender libertarian white male I almost decided to tell you I was a member of antifa, too. So what were their names, how old were they, and where were they from?

They were university students - probably seventy or eighty over a period of several months. The ones who called me an oppressive fascist cited the fact I was a white male made it obvious. The thing is I found no uniting belief among the many I talked with other than all have some visceral hatred for those they believe are oppressing them but all seem to assign the blame to white men in some (any) position of power.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Young kids these days don't really know much. I mean, try asking them what a video game is and listen to the answer you get. Video games should cost a quarter and last several hours on just that one hour unless they're on a video game system you bought, then they should be free...and fidget spinners...wtf...everyone thinks they have ADHD.

 

[J842P]

More accurately, to be a fascist, you have to be something other than an anarcho-communist. That is why in Berkeley an Antifa member wrote the graffiti "liberals get the bullet too."

You can't really be an anarcho-anything and a fascist.

I think antifa has mostly thrown gasoline on a fire, but I definitely don't think they are the moral equivalent of Nazis.

 

[RavenSky]

What does any of this soapboxing your favorite race issues have to do with groups of white men in Charlottesville who want to kill the Jews?

Who fucking cares. They are whining about a slippery slope, with regards to people chanting, while carrying burning tiki torches, about ending the Jews. That isn't protected speech.

Especially when those same nazi's and white supremacists followed up their words with attacking people.

There have been several eye-witness essays by medics that were there as SOP - every report testifies that the nazi's/kkk assholes started the altercations. In one horrific incident, the nazi/kkk thugs surrounded a small anti-fascist group, threw flammable liquids at the group and began beating them with the lit torches. The medic reporting the incident said it was a miracle that no one caught on fire.

 

[RavenSky]

Here's a Fox News clip of two AAs, one a GOP analyst, discussing Trump's Tuesday remarks. Does anyone here think the emotions displayed are insincere or attempted exploitation. Or, does it indicate that some Americans truly require reassurance from their govt? About six minutes...

That clip gets to me each time I watch it. I find myself crying along with the two guests and also wanting to scream at the idiotic clueless faux news host. It kills me that they figured they would trot out their token black conservative to pit against the black liberal for a "debate". There was no debate. There IS no debate. There is not a conservative side vs a liberal side to this.

 

[RavenSky]

Antifa's only ideology is to directly confront fascists. Antifa has no interest in pushing any governmental policy.

I saw a news article on them. They seem oblivious and counterproductive.

Every story I have read about them at Charlottesville said they protected innocent people from serious harm. I don't know much about them, so won't make a blanket statement about their methods or motives; the the eye-witnesses at Charlottesville are grateful Antifa was there. The eye-witnesses seem to believe there would have been far more deaths and injuries without Antifa there.

Brandy Daniels
Postdoctoral fellow at the Luce Project on Religion and Its Publics at UVA

It was basically impossible to miss the antifa for the group of us who were on the steps of Emancipation Park in an effort to block the Nazis and alt-righters from entering. Soon after we got to the steps and linked arms, a group of white supremacists—I’m guessing somewhere between 20-45 of them—came up with their shields and batons and bats and shoved through us. We tried not to break the line, but they got through some of us—it was terrifying, to say the least—shoving forcefully with their shields and knocking a few folks over. We strengthened our resolve and committed to not break the line again. Some of the anarchists and anti-fascist folks came up to us and asked why we let them through and asked what they could do to help. Rev. Osagyefo Sekou talked with them for a bit, explaining what we were doing and our stance and asking them to not provoke the Nazis. They agreed quickly and stood right in front of us, offering their help and protection.

Less than 10 minutes later, a much larger group of the Nazi alt-righters come barreling up. My memory is again murky on the details. (I was frankly focused on not bolting from the scene and/or not soiling myself—I know hyperbole is common in recounting stories like these, but I was legitimately very worried for my well-being and safety, so I was trying to remember the training I had acquired as well as, for resolve, to remember why I was standing there.) But it had to have been at least 100 of them this go around. I recall feeling like I was going to pass out and was thankful that I was locked arms with folks so that I wouldn’t fall to the ground before getting beaten. I knew that the five anarchists and antifa in front of us and the 20 or so of us were no match for the 100-plus of them, but at this point I wasn’t letting go.

At that point, more of the anarchists and antifa milling nearby saw the huge mob of the Nazis approach and stepped in. They were about 200-300 feet away from us and stepped between us (the clergy and faith leaders) and the Nazis. This enraged the Nazis, who indeed quickly responded violently. At this point, Sekou made a call that it was unsafe—it had gotten very violent very fast—and told us to disperse quickly.

While one obviously can’t objectively say what a kind of alternate reality or “sliding doors”–type situation would have been, one can hypothesize or theorize. Based on what was happening all around, the looks on their faces, the sheer number of them, and the weapons they were wielding, my hypothesis or theory is that had the antifa not stepped in, those of us standing on the steps would definitely have been injured, very likely gravely so. On Democracy Now, Cornel West, who was also in the line with us, said that he felt that the antifa saved his life. I didn’t roll my eyes at that statement or see it as an exaggeration—I saw it as a very reasonable hypothesis based on the facts we had.

 

[RavenSky]

Rev. Seth Wispelwey
Directing minister of Restoration Village Arts and consulting organizer for Congregate C'ville

I am a pastor in Charlottesville, and antifa saved my life twice on Saturday. Indeed, they saved many lives from psychological and physical violence—I believe the body count could have been much worse, as hard as that is to believe. Thankfully, we had robust community defense standing up to white supremacist violence this past weekend. Incredibly brave students held space at the University of Virginia and stared down a torch-lit mob that vastly outnumbered them on Friday night. On Saturday, battalions of anti-fascist protesters came together on my city’s streets to thwart the tide of men carrying weapons, shields, and Trump flags and sporting MAGA hats and Hitler salutes and waving Nazi flags and the pro-slavery “stars and bars.”...

A phalanx of neo-Nazis shoved right through our human wall with 3-foot-wide wooden shields, screaming and spitting homophobic slurs and obscenities at us. It was then that antifa stepped in to thwart them. They have their tools to achieve their purposes, and they are not ones I will personally use, but let me stress that our purposes were the same: block this violent tide and do not let it take the pedestal.

The white supremacists did not blink at violently plowing right through clergy, all of us dressed in full clerical garb. White supremacy is violence. I didn’t see any racial justice protesters with weapons; as for antifa, anything they brought I would only categorize as community defense tools and nothing more. Pretty much everyone I talk to agrees—including most clergy. My strong stance is that the weapon is and was white supremacy, and the white supremacists intentionally brought weapons to instigate violence.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...ft_was_actually_doing_in_charlottesville.html

 

[RavenSky]

otoh, this is one of the "alt-right" organizers:

“Heather Heyer was a fat, disgusting Communist,” stated the tweet on an account belonging to Jason Kessler. “Communists have killed 94 million. Looks like it was payback time.”

 

[blastula]

Boston Alt-right rally
Alt-right attendees 20
Anti alt-right 20,000

I have no idea what your point is.

Maybe that this is good news? That it's better than if the numbers were reversed. Do the turnout number bother you?

Lynch mob:
Black men 1
Angry mob 175

How is that supposed to compare?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

More accurately, to be a fascist, you have to be something other than an anarcho-communist. That is why in Berkeley an Antifa member wrote the graffiti "liberals get the bullet too."

You can't really be an anarcho-anything and a fascist.

I think antifa has mostly thrown gasoline on a fire, but I definitely don't think they are the moral equivalent of Nazis.

A lot of an-coms think that an-caps are fascists.

Recently on the Boston Antifa Facebook page the following message was posted. "There is no room for capitalists, conservatives, libertarians, "classical liberals" or supporters of the US constitution in our city. You MUST leave. " There is more to Antifa than merely being anti-fascist ... they can say that is all it is because they say anyone who disagrees with them is a fascist.

What will those kooks do th the "capitalists, conservatives, libertarians, "classical liberals" or supporters of the US constitution" who don't leave? Probably nothing, they're only LARPing as revolutionaries.

 

[laughing dog]

You can't really be an anarcho-anything and a fascist.

I think antifa has mostly thrown gasoline on a fire, but I definitely don't think they are the moral equivalent of Nazis.

A lot of an-coms think that an-caps are fascists.

Recently on the Boston Antifa Facebook page the following message was posted. "There is no room for capitalists, conservatives, libertarians, "classical liberals" or supporters of the US constitution in our city. You MUST leave. " There is more to Antifa than merely being anti-fascist ... they can say that is all it is because they say anyone who disagrees with them is a fascist.

You are under the false impression that Antifa is some monolithic movement with complete agreement on all issues.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

A lot of an-coms think that an-caps are fascists.

Recently on the Boston Antifa Facebook page the following message was posted. "There is no room for capitalists, conservatives, libertarians, "classical liberals" or supporters of the US constitution in our city. You MUST leave. " There is more to Antifa than merely being anti-fascist ... they can say that is all it is because they say anyone who disagrees with them is a fascist.

You are under the false impression that Antifa is some monolithic movement with complete agreement on all issues.

You are under the false impression that because no group is monolithic that therefore there isn't general agreement among the majority of members in any group.

 

[laughing dog]

You are under the false impression that Antifa is some monolithic movement with complete agreement on all issues.

You are under the false impression that because no group is monolithic that therefore there isn't general agreement among the majority of members in any group.

I am not. But you have not produced one iota of independent evidence that the majority of antifas agree with your characterization.

BTW, I forget, are a majority of libertarians anti-abortion or not?