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Yet another war, this time with Iran

Politesse said:
We cannot compete with younger, more ambitious nations on questions of industrial production.
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Youth and ambition have nothing to do with it.

The US (and the rest of the developed world) cannot compete with nations whose workforce will accept lower pay and harsher working conditions than workers in developed nations will tolerate.

The US partially offsets this by importing workers from Latin America, and refusing them the few labour rights and protections that US citizens have.

Which is the less smart of the two possible solutions. You can either lower your own standards until you are competitive; Or you can make the developing world's workers wealthy enough to become less competitive.

This is already happening; China is looking to Africa for cheap labour, just as the US looks to China.

Eventually the world will run short of poor people, and we will have to get machines to do the drudge labour.
 
How could stupid Trump neglect to include Lebanon in the "agreement" with IRan. Or is Israel just doing what it want to do?

Another Fuckup that can be pinned on Trump and his armatures?
 
bilby said:
Which is the less smart of the two possible solutions. You can either lower your own standards until you are competitive.
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This can't happen. Our standard of living is so much higher here than in those places that trying to pay our workers cents on the hour would simply not succeed. No one can survive on that here, and no one would be willing to try. Manufacturing of common consumer hard goods simply will not and cannot return. Nostalgia, fueled by poor memory, is not a substitute for real economic plans or policies.
 
The war according to the President of the United States:

Mar 3: "We won the war."

Mar 7: "We defeated Iran."

Mar 9: "We must attack Iran."

Mar 9: "The war is ending almost completely, and very beautifully."

Mar 11: "You never like to say too early you won. We won. In the first hour it was over."

Mar 12: "We did win, but we haven't won completely yet."

Mar 13: "We won the war."

Mar 14: "Please help us."

Mar 15: "If you don't help us, I will certainly remember it."

Mar 16: "Actually, we don't need any help at all."

Mar 16: "I was just testing to see who's listening to me."

Mar 16: "If NATO doesn't help, they will suffer something very bad."

Mar 17: "We neither need nor want NATO's help."

Mar 17: "I don't need Congressional approval to withdraw from NATO."

Mar 18: "Our allies must cooperate in reopening the Strait of Hormuz."

Mar 19: "US allies need to get a grip - step up and help open the Strait of Hormuz."

Mar 20: "NATO are cowards."

Mar 21: "The Strait of Hormuz must be protected by the countries that use it. We don't use it, we don't need to open it."

Mar 22: "This is the last time. I will give Iran 48 hours. Open the strait"

Mar 22: "Iran is Dead"

Mar 23: "We had very good and productive talks with Iran."

Mar 24: "We're making progress."

Mar 24: "[Iran] gave us a present and the present arrived today, and it was a very big present, worth a tremendous amount of money."

Mar 25: "They gave us a present and the present arrived today. And it was a very big present worth a tremendous amount of money. I'm not going to tell you what that present is, but it was a very significant prize."

Mar 26: "Make a deal, or we'll just keep blowing them away."

Mar 27: "We don't have to be there for NATO."

Mar 29: Claimed talks were progressing

Mar 30: "Open the Strait of Hormuz immediately, or face devastating consequences."

Mar 31: Claimed a deal was "very close" and that Iran would "do the right thing"

Apr 1: "We'll see what happens very soon."

Apr 2: Repeated that a deal was likely, while warning of continued strikes if not.

Apr 2: "The straight will open up naturally"

Apr 3: "Something big is going to happen."

Apr 4: Said Iran must comply "immediately" or face further consequences.

Apr 5: "Open the fuckin' Strait, you crazy bastards, or you'll be living in Hell - JUST WATCH! Praise be to Allah."
 
Man, Trump is just keeps talking and talking. He is the loudmouth in the room who knows better and can do any and everything. He is yapping while everyone else in the room keeps looking at each other waiting for him to shut up and what a fraud he is.

article said:
“All US ships, aircraft, and military personnel...will remain in place in, and around, Iran, until such time as the REAL AGREEMENT reached is fully complied with,” Trump wrote on Truth Social.
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The White House is really trying their hardest to pretend that Trump agreed to a bipartisan 10-point plan offered by Iran, not some Iranian wishlist. He is saying the wish list is fake. But if it is fake, what was he talking about in his Truth Social post? We know Iran wouldn't have a plan saying Free Strait and no nukes at this point.
 
RVonse said:
Politesse said:
All these people who have been dragging their feet about taking back our democracy, and who will be whinging later about how "no one could have known" this would happen, the world will neither forgive nor forget what you have done, nor entertain your pointed, intentional ignorance as a justification for it. You did this. Trump never claimed to be anything but what he was, you sanewashed him into perceived political legitimacy.
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That simply is not true. Trump has always claimed to be the peace president.
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And a bunch of idiots bought this claim from a lifelong con man? Pathetic.
RVonse said:
So much so he become famously jealous about the nobel peace prize.
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Yeah, and maybe you recall several months ago when Trump did not get said prize he announced that he was free to start a war, which is exactly what the bastard did.
RVonse said:
Democrats are now rightfully calling Trump a hypocrite. But MAGA supporters are rightfully calling him a complete betrayal to their values.
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Yeah, maybe MAGGOT voters are total idiots (in addition to being bigots) who can’t recognize a con man when they see one?

Ever think of that?
 
Politesse said:
bilby said:
Which is the less smart of the two possible solutions. You can either lower your own standards until you are competitive.
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This can't happen. Our standard of living is so much higher here than in those places that trying to pay our workers cents on the hour would simply not succeed. No one can survive on that here, and no one would be willing to try. Manufacturing of common consumer hard goods simply will not and cannot return. Nostalgia, fueled by poor memory, is not a substitute for real economic plans or policies.
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Trump threatens genocide on Iran.

Then he announces an agreement for a 2 week cease fire.

Was there even an agreement of any kind?

Seems to me that Trump was desperate for some sort of stop to the war and so his "agreement" with Iran was a lot less than an agreement. Iran posted their version of the 10 points which would never be agreeable to anyone but Iran.

The Trump administration has not posted anything on the 10 points. Nothing!

WTF?

The straits remain closed. Trump talked about Iran and the US having a joint venture to collect tolls? What?

This is all crazy. Trump is at least as crazy at the Iranian leaders and no more trustworthy.
 
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I don't understand. Why cannot the US fire upon the Iranian installations that fire on ships in the Hormuz Strait?
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
ZiprHead said:
I don't understand. Why cannot the US fire upon the Iranian installations that fire on ships in the Hormuz Strait?
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What "installations". It isn't quite like a missile launched towards Israel and tracking is simple.
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Ha. Like 100 mobile missile launcher trucks anywhere and somewhere else in 10 minutes. And another 100 mobile drone launching trucks anywhere and somewhere else in 10 minutes. Both on the mainland or on any of the islands.

And who knows how many mines.

It's next to impossible to secure the strait militarily. It would take 10x more than the total combined US, NATO, China, Russia navies to secure the strait. Trump knows this but still yells at NATO despite knowing that he's demanding the impossible.

Fucking idiot asshole Trump.
 
ZiprHead said:
I don't understand. Why cannot the US fire upon the Iranian installations that fire on ships in the Hormuz Strait?
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Gotta find them first.

There's a LOT of coastline, all of it backed by mountainous hinterland. The strait is narrow enough, and commercial ships vulnerable enough, that simple, portable weapons - light artillery, man-portable rocket and drone systems, short and intermediate range ballistic missiles, etc., etc. - can be set up in concealed locations, sink a ship, and the small team can bug out in minutes.

By the time the US knows they are there, they aren't there anymore, and a ship is sinking.

And they don't even need to do this - they hold all the cards. No captain is going to sail his VLCC through the strait unless either

A) Iran promises not to fire on it, or

B) The USA can guarantee that Iran cannot fire on it (which is a step beyond merely making it very unlikely that they can)

Option A is achieveable in principle, but option B simply is not - even if they could carpet bomb the coastal strip (they can't), and even if they could wipe out every Iranian drone and intermediate range missile (they also can't), they wouldn't be sure that there's not one anti-ship weapon that they missed - and it only needs one.

A VLCC is not designed to withstand military action.

This is the epitome of asymmetric warfare. Iran needs only the plausible threat of tiny numbers of low-tech weapons, to deny shipping the ability to transit the strait. To stop them from posing such a threat, the US would need to mount a massive ground invasion, and to occupy and fully pacify all resistance, along at least five hundred miles of coastline, back to a distance of at least a hundred miles inland. I sincerely doubt that the US could do that, but if they can it will entail very significant US casualties, and a genocidally lax set of Rules of Engagement.

And even if they did all that, it might well not be sufficient to persuade tanker and cargo ship captains, owners, and insurers that the risk was sufficiently low as to make running the strait an acceptable risk to take.

Realistically, the only way to reopen Hormuz is to have Iran agree not to target ships transiting those waters.

You can't bomb people into liking you, or into making a deal with you.
 
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