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Vaccines, Vaccinations Discussions

No one has yet explained this: If the absorbed dose from shots is way below the absorbed dose from food, and children with kidney problems are not told to avoid those foods, why would there be any concern for children with kidney problems getting vaccinated with aluminum-containing vaccines? Are we comparing apples to apples, or is there actually more aluminum absorbed due to the number of aluminum-containing shots given at one time?
Nobody has explained why we should not consider whether dementia is the result of exposure to Cthulhu.

You are taking all the claims of harm as truth without considering whether they are true or not.
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US FDA Child Health Concerns, June 2003 "Term infants with normal renal function may also be at risk because of their rapidly growing and immature brain and skeleton, and an immature bloodbrain barrier. Until they are 1 to 2 years old, infants have lower glomerular filtration rates than adults, which affects their kidney function. The agency is concerned that young children and children with immature renal function are at a higher risk resulting from any exposure to aluminum.” Cited in the Federal Register

Note the date on that pile of shit: December 4, 2025. That's the charlatans that Brain Worm appointed to the ACIP.
I thought the paper was from 2003. I skimmed it and it asks questions that I would want answered. Here is just one concern that any parent would have. There are many more.
Read your URL, the date's in it.
Why Focus on Aluminum Dose in Vaccines? • Infants receive multiple aluminum-containing vaccines in a single visit under the current schedule. • Dose per kilogram body weight is far higher in early infancy than in adults. • Neonatal kidneys, blood–brain barrier, and detoxification systems are immature.
And this a powerpoint slide, not a scientific paper. Note the last bit of your quote: "Cited in the Federal Register". A citation needs enough information to look it up, some of the other stuff in there actually had proper cites, this does not--which automatically makes it highly suspect. And the Federal Register is not remotely a scientific source anyway.


Furthermore, we have what should be the leading body on such matters and this is what they come up with? If I believed this is what a proper search for evidence came up with I would consider it to totally exonerate aluminum. However, I very much suspect this is AI hallucinations and thus meaningless.
If AI hallucinated, then that would be a problem, but AI was only in the development phase in 2003.
I'm suggesting AI hallucinated the existence of the study. We keep seeing examples of this happening--when you ask an AI to prove something that's false it's very prone to outright fabrication. And we see this administration routinely falling for AI hallucinations.

And you're missing the part where I said that if it's not a hallucination that it's a total exoneration. If that's their best evidence they don't have shit--and if it's not why not present the better?
 
Thank you for your response. I understand how a study could be poorly designed. You are absolutely correct that if there is bias, the results could be skewed. It is hard to compare apples to apples when there are so many variables that could affect the outcome.
This wasn't a poorly designed "study". This was a case of of deliberately constructing a "study" which would be expected to produce false answers. This is pretty basic statistics. Malice, not mistake.

(This is becoming quite a problem where there is a financial or ideological benefit to a particular result. Notable results from a study, the first reaction should be to look for problems in the study. And be especially wary of pre-print stuff. It's become a standard way to pretend it's a reputable study.)
Doesn't it say at the end of the studies that there is no conflict of interest? I agree that you have to trust the study, including the researchers. I'm not a sucker. I just don't have the kind of distrust (at least not yet) for the people doing the studies. And I don't think RFK Jr. is a brainworm. He is just concerned and wants to redo the studies to guarantee their safety and efficacy, just like you would like on the studies that you distrust.
1) I don't care what they say about conflict of interest as the problem is apparent. They are looking at small unit data. Did they somehow only look at those places (which aren't realistically related to each other) where more vaccinated babies died?? Or did they look at the whole sample and select those cases where more vaccinated babies died. Since the chance of a baby dying of a vaccine-preventable cause in that sample window is quite low the expected null case is vaccinated deaths = unvaccinated deaths. And, statistically, half of the time when they aren't equal you would expect vaccinated to exceed unvaccinated. To take an obviously expected result and pretend it's something important is enough to damn them.

2) I have major distrust of researchers who would make such a glaring "error". (No, I find it hard to believe they knew enough to do the analysis and not enough to realize the expected result. This is malice.) And when the other anti-vax "scientists" don't call foul on something like this they look complicit.

3) We aren't calling him a brain worm. We are calling him a name, Brain Worm---because he has a worm in his brain. The worm is not contested.
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
...5800-1775=3025 were unvaccinated. ..

Err, 4025, which is more than double deaths of those matching vaccination records.
That's all well and good, but you cannot tell someone to take a vaccine when there is an element of risk. You can tell them that the risk is minimal, but you cannot tell them that they will not be the one who gets the bullet. That is my only grievance.

That's like saying you shouldn't eat because there is a risk of being poisoned. Yes some people might be poisoned but there is more risk in not eating.
All I am saying is that you can give people information, but you cannot promise that they will not be the ones to be hurt by the vaccine that was intended to protect them. I hope you aren't denying that a small proportion of children have been hurt by vaccines or have even died. How can anyone deny that a 4-month-old baby getting 4 vaccines at once, then screaming, going cold, and dying within a few hours, didn't die from the vaccines or the way they were administered? I dislike the cold-heartedness of people who would say, "Your child didn't die of the vaccines. He died from other causes," never pointing the finger at the vaccines themselves or the combination of vaccines that were used. This isn't the only case.
And you can't guarantee the one that is unvaccinated will survive.

What we can see is the vaccinated on average live longer.

The fundamental problem here remains the same: you are demanding perfection of one side and no accountability for the other.
There is accountability on both sides, but there is more accountability when someone injects a product into the body. The vaccinators cannot be charged with neglect, but the ones who choose a more natural route ARE? This is absurdity. Vaccine safety t cannot be put into a formula that protects everyone. We are all different to a degree, and some will pay with their health and possibly their lives for listening to the vaccinators.
Not at all. Failure to take due care in a situation you had a part in creating will cause you legal trouble. It doesn't matter if you don't believe your child needs to eat, you'll still be in jail if they starve.
No, choosing inaction is an action which should carry equal accountability to choosing action. You are not acting out of malice, but you are following the words of those who are at a minimum acting with a total disregard for harm.
That's not true. The ones who are concerned are not at all acting with a total disregard for harm. They are doing everything possible to eliminate harm, even though you don't agree with how they are going about it.
No, they aren't looking to reduce harm--no evidence is being presented that their approach will reduce harm. It's pure faith.
And ignorance is not a defense in any situation where educational credentials of any sort are required. (Although we do tend to have a bit of leniency in situations where systems differ--cops generally don't ticket a foreign driver acting according to the standards of where they live.)
You cannot compare this situation with driving safety. They are on opposite ends of the safety spectrum.
Look upthread, I did some numbers.

Vaccinated: driving sober.
Unvaccinated: driving drunk.

Only the difference is even greater.
 
She sounds very delusional. Sad. :(

These exercises should tell you something about the website. Her deal is that she's raking in cash money from vulnerable people. The links to her info and videos are provided from childrenshealthdefense.org. The "scientific" (crazy) content is being approved by the site and the science officer has a hand in much of that. That's Brian Hopper, one of the studies' authors you had posted where the study got retracted. It's all very untrustworthy from a combination of delusional people and people trying to make a buck and their poor, vulnerable followers.
Part of what you say may be true, but that doesn't mean that everyone who has an issue with vaccines is necessarily wrong. I am surprised that these strange beliefs are clumped together with vaccines. It really puts a bad spin on anyone who questions the safety and efficacy of vaccines at all because you're given loony status. Unfortunately, many sites that focus on vaccines specifically have been scrubbed off the internet. You can find nothing on any search engine other than the benefits, and very little about the drawbacks, so you're stuck with the few sites that offer a different side to this issue, where everyone gets a say.
 
I listened to a report on Tylenol todayy.

As far as I can tell there is no hard evidence of risks as claimed with pregnant women and Tylenol. Yet at this point after all the clams that gave been made only about 20% of pregnant women now have trust in using Tylenol.

The quetionis nnot settled witjh both sides laimng stdies supportt them.

It is easy to discredit anything.

The old saying repeat a lie long enough and it becomes truth.
The Tylenol bit is almost certainly AI slop. They did find a link between Tylenol and autism--but when they looked more carefully it disappeared when looking at siblings. This is a Chinese flag saying there's a confounder. Something both makes autism more likely and makes Tylenol use more likely. The AI found the original and has no ability to understand that it was found to be a red herring.
 
Something that has 1/1,000,000 chance of causing serious harm stops something the has >1/1,000 chance of causing serious harm.

Peacegirl says we should go with the 1/1,000 because the 1/1,000,000 is way worse.
Duh! A million is bigger than a thousand.
 
Of course, but people are concerned about long-term effects that may not have been picked up by the studies. Usually, they don't follow children's long-term health consequences and would never make the connection anyway. Some feel that it's unnatural for children to be injected with so many vaccines. I'm sure vaccines have saved people, but does that mean we can't reevaluate the need for a vaccine for every illness that comes down the pike? Look, I'm being the devil's advocate, so please don't pounce on me. In Florida, they are lightening up on some vaccines to enter school, but not all. This is a first, so we will have to wait and see if certain diseases make a comeback.


Peacegirl, do you not recognise the above as a cost cutting measure by a gov't which demonstrably does not give a shit about the populace? And a stupid, short sighted measure, even if only from a financial POV if you factor in the larger drain on already stretched medical facilities and the loss of potential to the nation. Never mind the human costs (which your gov't seems increasingly willing to do.)
So you think the government willingly let people die because it was better financially? Where were they cost-cutting? I think they were doing their best. It's easy to place blame after the fact because hindsight is always 20/20.
Once again you're trying to play gotcha without thinking about it.

Think about why it costs money. When dealing with an acute medical issue there is a very strong correlation between medical spending and patient harm and suffering. While there are things which are bad but not expensive there's very little that's acute and expensive that doesn't mean harm.

Thus medical spending serves as a good measure of the problem. A bunch of money spent on threatment = a bunch of suffering and generally a bunch of lasting harm.
You have expressed concern for the guilt to be experienced by parents who have vaccinated a child who has then had an adverse reaction. Would you feel no guilt watching your child die of a preventable disease which you had chosen not to protect them from? And this is the much, MUCH more likely scenario.

Have you ever had to watch a child in the throes of whooping cough? I have. Not only can the child just choke and die, painfully and slowly, the coughing is so extreme that they can burst blood vessels. Often the delicate vessels in the eye, resulting in blindness. And the coughing, and that risk, can continue for 6 months after the disease is dealt with.

Whooping cough is just one of the diseases which is increasingly rare in first world countries, due to vaccination programs. But it's still around, largely due to anti-vax sentiment and a little due to international travel.

If vaccination was more widespread children worldwide would have a better chance of reaching maturity.

Your stance callously echoes the "let's wait and see how many die" stance which your gov't adopted during COVID.
I do think about the ones who were hurt by the vaccine. That would scare any parent as well. There is no perfect answer, even though statistically it appears that the dtap shot is the best way to go even though there are risks. Look what happened to Barbara Lowe Fischer's son. That's what prompted her to start NVIC.org. Maybe it's one in a million that this reaction would occur but it is still what stays in the minds of parents having to make this decision.
The problem is the vast, vast majority of those "hurt by the vaccine" were not. That's why the lawyers hate the VCIP--they have to prove the problem before experts rather than a jury that's easy to manipulate.

The vast majority of "evidence" against vaccines is emotional manipulation.

Barbara Loe Fisher’s Story on Her Son’s DPT Vaccine Reaction​

Except there's no evidence of causation.
 
So much for her stated declaration to ignore @bilby.

At FF we called it “pretend ignore.” At one point she was “ignoring” everyone because in critiquing her author’s book we all were “ruining it for everyone.”

I don’t believe she has used the particular phrase here, yet, so maybe that counts for “learning” something.
What a joke this whole thread is. How can anything be learned if people are already biased, which would cause serious cognitive/dissonance if they were told their beliefs were in question? You have no idea how difficult this was for Lessans, and still is, to break through the barrier of ignorance that has been accrued over time.
You are equating "learn something" with agreeing with your position.

Try learning something yourself! We keep pointing out why your stuff is false but your faith precludes understanding blasphemy.
 
I'm posting videos that I believe will add to the discussion.
Reality doesn't care what you (or anyone else) believes, and nor does anyone here.

You desperately need to stop acting on your beliefs, and instead to actually learn something, so that you can act on knowledge and reason instead.

That you apparently have failed to grasp that the deprecation of belief in favour of knowledge is the entire reason and purpose for this website is both utterly unsuprising and deeply disappointing.
I know the difference between belief and genuine knowledge. But sometimes scientific "theories" are given a status they don't necessarily deserve. Have you ever thought about that?
The fact that you used air quotes around theories says all we need to know.
Why is that an air quote? The word theory was appropriate or there would be no controversy. I didn't mean it to be sarcastic.

Air quotes are a hand gesture using the index and middle fingers to indicate that a word or phrase is being used ironically, sarcastically, or in a non-literal sense.
Saying you don't believe it's actual science.
I didn't say that. I said that scientific theory is called this for a reason. It doesn't mean that all science is wrong, but it leaves the door open, which is honorable.
The standard trap of faith: the faith convinces you that any evidence of it being wrong is somebody lying to you.
That is true if one's belief is so strong that nothing will sway them, even if it's based on faith. This doesn't mean that anytime someone stands their ground, even though others disagree, is a fundamentalist.
Simple test: Falsifiability. What specific test could convince you you are wrong? Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant, what could be measured that would convince you?

A position which can't be falsified is worthless and should be discarded.
It seems to me that it would be whether something works in practice. The falsification, I presume, would be to show under which conditions this application would be false. This makes sense because it can further prove a thing's falseness or truth scientifically.
(Relativity, for example: you have to use Einsteinan equations with GPS, Newtonian gives the wrong answer. If Newtonian worked and Einsteinian didn't then the theory would be falsified.)
Everybody has denied that seeing in real time (my other thread) cannot be true because Einstein's relativity and special relativity ARE true, which would cancel out the possibility of seeing in real time, but in actuality, these two disparate observations are not in competition with each other.
 
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Oh really? I don't know if it's true that aluminum from vaccines is irrelevant compared to other sources. There is a lot of ambiguity.

You have already seen my post explaining why that's a crock of shit. If that were credible science it would be in a journal, not "published in the federal register".

Why don't you actually learn something instead of simply classifying information based on whether you agree with it.
 
Oh really? I don't know if it's true that aluminum from vaccines is irrelevant compared to other sources. There is a lot of ambiguity.

You have already seen my post explaining why that's a crock of shit. If that were credible science it would be in a journal, not "published in the federal register".

Why don't you actually learn something instead of simply classifying information based on whether you agree with it.

She believes what she wants to believe, and is unable or unwilling to learn anything.
 
Written to peacegirl:
... yet you exclusively post only one side of ht argument that aims to discredit nearly the entire field of pediatricians and doctors.

And those things posted are often blatant falsehoods or corruptions for cash money. Take for example that crazy video from that website where the doctor said nanobots would be in the covid vaccine and that moderna would be barcoding our forearms. That crazy doctor also kept pronouncing luciferase like Lucifer-ase. It was a clear clarion call to End Times folks and Revelation: i.e. the mark of the bast and also blatantly false. We all know from having the vaccine that it was false.

She actually posted a video like this???

I don’t view videos. If she posted a video like this it just shows she is more off her rocker than I thought.

I posted it but it comes from that childhealthdefense website, the one RFK Jr was heading. These "experts" they are quoting are lunatics. This is like pizzagate level conspiracy stuff.

This one:

Video makes it look like a forearm barcode...the doctor is talking about luciferase which is a thing in biotech...but making it sounds like Lucifer-ase. The video makes it look like you get a barcode on your forearm, but really neither of these were a thing.

View attachment 53981

Nanobots:
View attachment 53982

The site also mentions chemtrails.

Speaking of which, I posted a couple of wackadoo posts from the mother of the child who died and claims it was caused by a vaccine. These were from her facebook page. One of them was about chemtrails. Clearly, the poor mother is completely brainwashed by these charlatans.
I agree with you that some of this stuff sounds nutty.

Sounds?

I do remember hearing the Covid vaccine can change our DNA. I wonder if that’s where nanobots came from? The whole thing sounds ridiculous but does that mean that all of their concerns are unfounded?

Just because someone is nuts doesn't mean they are wrong. HOWEVER, you earlier used an emotional appeal regarding the parents of the children calling people who said they were lying despicable. If we observe a number of delusions and wu, then it looks like a broader pattern, doesn't it?
No, you cannot use the fact that a parent saw a child change dramatically right before their eyes after a vaccine was given, and immediately call it woo because they show a pattern that is believed to be woo. It's unconscionable for a parent's cries to fall on deaf ears, no matter what the science says. Maybe it is just an association, but maybe it's not. I disagree vehemently with how parents are treated when they share their stories. It is a callousness and disregard for their eye-witness accounts that I just don't understand. Science and one's humanity are not mutually exclusive.
 
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This study seems to suggest that an influenza vaccine may prevent hospitalization in those with diabetes.

That's what a scientific paper should look like. Note how different it is from the stuff you usually post. No use of fonts to point things out, no use of stupid graphics, just information. It's also written assuming a much higher competence on the part of the reader--terms are used without explanation as the reader is expected to already be familiar with the jargon.

And halfway down the page I find an extremely important bit of data:

paper said:
From studies with available data, estimated all-cause mortality was 0.056 and 0.060 in vaccinated and unvaccinated patients, respectively, with an absolute risk reduction of 0.004 and a NNT of 250.

All-cause mortality is normally the gold standard for evaluating medical treatment. While this does not preclude quality-of-life harms there are very few cases outside hospice type situations where one would go against it.

And here we have a simple intervention that's not treatment of the disease but shows a NNT for all-cause mortality. That is unusual!

To put it in plain English, the flu vaccine has a .4% chance of saving a diabetic's life.

In baseball terms, the vaccine hit it clear out of the park.
 
I’m sure everyone here will immediately shut down, but it may have some validity.


Another talking head. Nope.

But there has been a persistent effort to discredit mRNA technology on the basis that it somehow modifies DNA--yet nothing of the sort has ever been shown.

I'm so glad to hear that nothing has been shown to indicate a modification of one's DNA. I think this idea was the result of people saying it isn't really a vaccine because it instructs the body to make its own spike protein, which is not what vaccines do.
 
This study seems to suggest that an influenza vaccine may prevent hospitalization in those with diabetes.

Seems to suggest that it may?

conclusion said:
In conclusion, the present systematic review and meta-analysis shows that: 1) influenza is associated with more severe complications in diabetic versus not diabetic individuals and 2) influenza vaccination is effective in preventing clinically relevant outcomes in adults with DM. The identification of patients with diabetes as the target of vaccination campaigns for influenza appears to be justified by available clinical evidence.
Curious why you decided to share this March 2023 paper all of a sudden.
It popped up in my feed. This is the kind of thing where vaccines can be individualized based on someone’s health status. It makes sense. I don’t know if it makes sense to get the flu shot every year if you don’t have diabetes or a poor immune system, especially when it’s a different strain every year which may not even help. My friend got so sick from the shot, he said he will never get another one. That was a few years ago and so far he hasn’t gotten the flu. 🙏
It's more beneficial to someone with diabetes, but that doesn't mean it's not beneficial for all except those allergic to it.
 
I agree with you that some of this stuff sounds nutty. I do remember hearing the Covid vaccine can change our DNA. I wonder if that’s where nanobots came from? The whole thing sounds ridiculous but does that mean that all of their concerns are unfounded?
Yes, it means all are unfounded.

The problem is not that there are kooks, but that the community welcomes the kooks. That says they do not care about the truth, thus nothing they say has any credibility.
 
Written to peacegirl:
... yet you exclusively post only one side of ht argument that aims to discredit nearly the entire field of pediatricians and doctors.

And those things posted are often blatant falsehoods or corruptions for cash money. Take for example that crazy video from that website where the doctor said nanobots would be in the covid vaccine and that moderna would be barcoding our forearms. That crazy doctor also kept pronouncing luciferase like Lucifer-ase. It was a clear clarion call to End Times folks and Revelation: i.e. the mark of the bast and also blatantly false. We all know from having the vaccine that it was false.

She actually posted a video like this???

I don’t view videos. If she posted a video like this it just shows she is more off her rocker than I thought.

I posted it but it comes from that childhealthdefense website, the one RFK Jr was heading. These "experts" they are quoting are lunatics. This is like pizzagate level conspiracy stuff.

This one:

Video makes it look like a forearm barcode...the doctor is talking about luciferase which is a thing in biotech...but making it sounds like Lucifer-ase. The video makes it look like you get a barcode on your forearm, but really neither of these were a thing.

View attachment 53981

Nanobots:
View attachment 53982

The site also mentions chemtrails.

Speaking of which, I posted a couple of wackadoo posts from the mother of the child who died and claims it was caused by a vaccine. These were from her facebook page. One of them was about chemtrails. Clearly, the poor mother is completely brainwashed by these charlatans.
I agree with you that some of this stuff sounds nutty.

Sounds?

I do remember hearing the Covid vaccine can change our DNA. I wonder if that’s where nanobots came from? The whole thing sounds ridiculous but does that mean that all of their concerns are unfounded?

Just because someone is nuts doesn't mean they are wrong. HOWEVER, you earlier used an emotional appeal regarding the parents of the children calling people who said they were lying despicable. If we observe a number of delusions and wu, then it looks like a broader pattern, doesn't it?
No, you cannot use the fact that a parent saw a child change dramatically right before their eyes

That is a claim, not a thing they necessarily observed. Some people actually do observe those things and those may come from adverse events. For a claim such as this about an undocumented adverse event, we would want to see documentation such as an autopsy report or death certificate. No such documentation is offered. Why don't they show it? Besides that, like I already posted, the mother was given a vaccine information sheet so why didn't she follow instructions to seek medical help if she really was observing these things? Babies have to eat to survive. You can't let a baby starve because you believe in wu. You need to see a pediatrician.

after a vaccine was given, and immediately call it woo because they show a pattern that is believed to be woo. It's unconscionable for a parent's cries to fall on deaf ears, no matter what the science says.

Everyone has beliefs. Beliefs are not facts. Sometimes they align with facts and sometimes they do not. You have to measure and test in order to determine such things. You can't just use an emotional appeal to say "parents say X CAUSED Y," to then make people agree that X CAUSED Y. Parents believe chemtrails cause Y, too, but they don't.

Maybe it is just an association, but maybe it's not. I disagree vehemently with how parents are treated when they share their stories. It is a callousness and disregard for their eye-witness accounts that I just don't understand. Science and one's humanity are not mutually exclusive.

I am COMPLETELY OPEN-MINDED that MAYBE the mother was observing something out of the ordinary with the infant. The mother was then supposed to seek medical help IF IT WERE TRUE. So, why wouldn't the mother have done so? Do you think she is uncaring? Do you think she is beyond reason and so could not seek medical help? I don't think she was beyond reason at that time in her life and I also don't think she was uncaring. The other option is that she has reinvented her memories to an extent because charlatans have offered her a way to rethink them where those charlatans profit off her continually through the things she now buys from them. I think it is terrible to take advantage of vulnerable, grieving mothers.

Yet, if you look at her facebook posts, you can see people are taking advantage of her, telling her untrue things and she is falling for it and buying illegitimate products.

Why do you have such callousness when you can clearly see people profit off her like that? You should be extremely angry at the website you listed. Why aren't you? Why aren't you up in arms against RFK Jr and others who used it as a means to achieve political power?
 
That sounds like sheer paranoia, which is not going to give them any credibility when it comes to vaccines. I'm not in agreement with any of these conspiracy theories, so please don't put me in this category.
You recognize the problem with these claims, why don't you recognize that the rest of her claims are equally trustworthy?

Especially the moon bit. We simply could not fake Apollo. Without a lot of computer generated imagery you simply can't make natural looking movement in low gravity that's longer than what you can do in a vomit comet--and that's not much over 20 seconds. Simple test: compare video from the ISS with what Hollywood does--note how the movement is very different.
 
:laugh: :rofl: I'm laughing because a disclaimer sounds so funny, as if I really need one when there are biologists, immunologists, and toxicologists who have an issue with certain vaccines. I'm sure there are well-meaning doctors and researchers, but there are a lot of bad apples when money is involved. We already went over this. Conflict of interest is a very bad thing. Once a person has a bad reaction to a vaccine, they're basically on their own. Half the time they aren't believed because their complaints are anecdotal and therefore ignored. There is very little recourse. The vaccine makers go scot-free, and it takes forever to get any kind of compensation, even when the proof of damage is in their favor. Doesn't that bother you?
The problem is the vast majority of "vaccine reactions" are either normal, routine things (look at the reports of "major" reactions to the Covid vaccine--the only way you get numbers like that is if you count the flu-like symptoms as a "major" reaction) or have nothing to do with the vaccine.
 
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