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Yet another war, this time with Iran

The U.S. constitutionally declared war on Nazi Germany on Dec. 11, 1941, three days after declaring war on Japan, but only after Germany and Italy declared war on the U.S.
 
barbos said:
So it looks like the whole rescue of the pilot was a cover up for Special Op to steal enriched uranium? .....And it failed.

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Bullshit. Any operation to obtain Iran's semi enriched uranium would be a months long operation while under fire from the IRGC.
 
pood said:
SLD said:
pood said:
The U.S. has not formally declared a war since 1941. President Truman declared the Korean War not a war at all, but a U.N.-authorized “police action.” Such did Orwellian doublespeak begin to overtake our political rhetoric.

Every war we have been in since then has been clearly unconstitutional, including of course this one.

So no, Trump is not the only violator, but this violation is arguably the most egregious.
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Well, the President has authorized a variety of military actions without a declaration of war since 1789. Korea was not the first by any means.

Korea and the first Gulf War were both authorized by the United Nations. Afghanistan too, IIRC.

The second gulf war famously fell flat at the UN. Powell was almost humiliated. W ignored them anyways and paid the price.
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A little research shows that Congress has declared war 11 times. This is not to say that all the declarations were wise; the war against Mexico in the 1840s was particularly reprehensible. But it was constitutional.

I stand corrected on one point: the last official declarations of war were not in 1941, but in 1942, against Bulgaria, Hungary and Romania, all Nazi allies at the time.

U.N. authorization of war does not supersede the U.S. constitution, a point made by any number of people at the time of Korea.

There was no congressional declaration of war during the Civil War, because it was deemed that that there was no one to declare war against. Lincoln and his allies held that the Confedracy was not a separate country, so the whole war was considered the suppression of an insurrection.

Of course throughout the 19th century the U.S. waged numerous undeclared wars against native Americans, who were also held not to constitute a separate nation or nations but regarded simply as inferior barbarians interfering with the glorious national project of Manifest Destiny.
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The U.S. has been waging various conflicts of different orders of magnitude for 235 years around the world, not just in the Americas. From a naval war with France, Barbary Pirates, numerous wars throughout the Americas. It’s not just on the North American Continent.
 
ZiprHead said:
barbos said:
So it looks like the whole rescue of the pilot was a cover up for Special Op to steal enriched uranium? .....And it failed.

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Bullshit. Any operation to obtain Iran's semi enriched uranium would be a months long operation while under fire from the IRGC.
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Well, it's being a month and you have been under fire from the IRGC.
 
When all is said and done the US always stands to benefit from instability in the middle east and Europe. This war won't be any different.
 
I am up early today.

In the news in Lebanon, Gaza, and Iran people are living in terror. A bomb, drone, or missile can hit anytime without warning.

I listened to a BBC interview that got out of Iran. A man talked about being in fear and feeling powerless. If water and power are destroyed they have nothing. No jobs.

And here I am in my comfortable apartment in my comfortable chair drinking coffee.

Trump and his staff must be stone cold and emotionless. Not a shred of empathy.

That is what the USA is coming down down to. Absolute greed and self interest.

So much for American Christian values.
 
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ZiprHead said:
barbos said:
So it looks like the whole rescue of the pilot was a cover up for Special Op to steal enriched uranium? .....And it failed.

Click to expand...

Bullshit. Any operation to obtain Iran's semi enriched uranium would be a months long operation while under fire from the IRGC.
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That is my first thought as well. But then the word "should" came to mind. Any operation to obtains Iran's semi-enriched uranium should be a project that would take a bit, wouldn't be in and out.

The size of the rescue operation was big, but flying into hostile territory, you need redundancy. I'm willing to consider the administration is lying and this was a coverup, however, what would have been required to get the uranium out would have been much more in the way of planes, particularly A10s to plow the roads for the uranium carrying planes. There is simply no way to get the uranium out with a small operation as well. If at all. I don't know if anyone knows is the uranium is accessible.

Iran thought they took down an F-15E, there is scrap metal suggesting that is true. The rescue operation was big for one person, but behind enemy lines, so not unusual. The operation didn't seem reasonably large enough for taking enriched uranium out of an Iranian base.

Now it isn't impossible that there was a botched attempt to seize uranium at some other point in time, but from the details and info available, it sounds like the US rescued two downed airman.
 
Gospel said:
When all is said and done the US always stands to benefit from instability in the middle east and Europe. This war won't be any different.
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The US has managed to strengthen Iran's power since killing its Theocratic ruler. Oil shortages are creeping. Urea prices are also going up quite a bit which will drive up the cost of food.

The US is gaining very very little from this. In fact, the US is likely losing a lot more than it is gaining. The US is currently still in Iran because of they are trying to save face. And they don't save face unless the Theocracy walks away, which almost certainly isn't going to happen.
 
Politesse said:
“A whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again."

Hello, you fucking blood-soaked idiots who defended this man? How is this anything other than a threat to commit genocide?
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The military has an obligation to disobey orders to commit war crimes.

The cabinet has an obligation to remove this monster via the 25th amendment, and if that does not happen, Congress has an obligation to impeach and convict.

This is a pivotal moment. Let us see if the monster backs down from his genocidal threats, or if our institutions work to put him out of power and preferably into a jail cell where he belongs.
 
pood said:
Oh, and where are you folks who were talking about how Trump would keep us out of wars? :unsure:
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I have no idea how many in here actually supported Trump verses how many like pwning the libs. RVonse was a Trump supporter. He seems oddly silent. The remainder of the "conservatives" are extremely silent, except when to try and catch someone in a "gotcha" or "whudabout" moment.

What bothers me the most, is their silence. They don't matter. The GOP in Congress is vile. Trump keeps going on and on and on about how disappointed in NATO he is, how NATO was never there for us. We had around 3,000 people murdered on 9/11/01. And NATO was there for us! And the GOP is silent with Trump's slander. That silence is unforgivable.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
pood said:
Oh, and where are you folks who were talking about how Trump would keep us out of wars? :unsure:
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I have no idea how many in here actually supported Trump verses how many like pwning the libs. RVonse was a Trump supporter. He seems oddly silent. The remainder of the "conservatives" are extremely silent, except when to try and catch someone in a "gotcha" or "whudabout" moment.

What bothers me the most, is their silence. They don't matter. The GOP in Congress is vile. Trump keeps going on and on and on about how disappointed in NATO he is, how NATO was never there for us. We had around 3,000 people murdered on 9/11/01. And NATO was there for us! And the GOP is silent with Trump's slander. That silence is unforgivable.
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The NATO alliance is a defense pact. It does not mean that NATO is obligated to join any war that the U.S. launches without being attacked. Even Dubya understood this. NATO did come to our aid after 9/11, but did not formally involve itself in the invasion of Iraq, which was characterized as a “coalition of the willing.”

If tonight Trump orders attacks on civilian infrastructure without military purpose, these orders must be disobeyed and the president must be removed from office. The military swears an oath to the U.S. constitution, not to the whims of a gibbering madman with spray-painted orange hair.
 
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