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Vaccines, Vaccinations Discussions

The preacher says: Speak Now Or Forever Hold Your Peace.
What the preacher says isn't relevant to what you are saying or sharing. Which are nothing but scare tactics from dubious sources (at best) trying to imply a potential risk that you have repeatedly also said you have no real evidence that there is a risk at all.

In of science, what you have been saying are anecdotes, hearsay, misquotes, and promotion of unverified claims.

All for the goal, you say, to help parents makes the right choices. I'm uncertain how you think anecdotes, hearsay, miquotes, and unverified claims are in any way useful for making a choice.
I’m not here to get parents to do anything. They don’t have to listen to me. Im not a doctor. It appears that most children do well on the present vaccine schedule. A small number don’t.
 
This study seems to suggest that an influenza vaccine may prevent hospitalization in those with diabetes.

Seems to suggest that it may?

conclusion said:
In conclusion, the present systematic review and meta-analysis shows that: 1) influenza is associated with more severe complications in diabetic versus not diabetic individuals and 2) influenza vaccination is effective in preventing clinically relevant outcomes in adults with DM. The identification of patients with diabetes as the target of vaccination campaigns for influenza appears to be justified by available clinical evidence.
Curious why you decided to share this March 2023 paper all of a sudden.
It popped up in my feed. This is the kind of thing where vaccines can be individualized based on someone’s health status. It makes sense. I don’t know if it makes sense to get the flu shot every year if you don’t have diabetes or a poor immune system, especially when it’s a different strain every year which may not even help. My friend got so sick from the shot, he said he will never get another one. That was a few years ago and so far he hasn’t gotten the flu. 🙏
 
Written to peacegirl:
... yet you exclusively post only one side of ht argument that aims to discredit nearly the entire field of pediatricians and doctors.

And those things posted are often blatant falsehoods or corruptions for cash money. Take for example that crazy video from that website where the doctor said nanobots would be in the covid vaccine and that moderna would be barcoding our forearms. That crazy doctor also kept pronouncing luciferase like Lucifer-ase. It was a clear clarion call to End Times folks and Revelation: i.e. the mark of the bast and also blatantly false. We all know from having the vaccine that it was false.

She actually posted a video like this???

I don’t view videos. If she posted a video like this it just shows she is more off her rocker than I thought.

I posted it but it comes from that childhealthdefense website, the one RFK Jr was heading. These "experts" they are quoting are lunatics. This is like pizzagate level conspiracy stuff.

This one:

Video makes it look like a forearm barcode...the doctor is talking about luciferase which is a thing in biotech...but making it sounds like Lucifer-ase. The video makes it look like you get a barcode on your forearm, but really neither of these were a thing.

View attachment 53981

Nanobots:
View attachment 53982

The site also mentions chemtrails.

Speaking of which, I posted a couple of wackadoo posts from the mother of the child who died and claims it was caused by a vaccine. These were from her facebook page. One of them was about chemtrails. Clearly, the poor mother is completely brainwashed by these charlatans.
I agree with you that some of this stuff sounds nutty. I do remember hearing the Covid vaccine can change our DNA. I wonder if that’s where nanobots came from? The whole thing sounds ridiculous but does that mean that all of their concerns are unfounded?
 
I am concerned that if I sail towards the horizon I will fall off the end of the Earth.

I know what science says about a spherical Earth, bit I am am not blabbing nonsense, just voicing my concern.
How can you use this as a comparison when this has nothing to do with an argument that has not been proven to be 100% true?
Not much can be said to have been proven 100% true. You are creating a mythical, unattainable standard in order to create a gap to justify letting children get sick.
You're still not getting my point. What about the children who die from a vaccine or are permanently damaged? If it's an unattainable standard, would they be told that there is a small risk so they could make an informed decision, or would they be told that they should get the vaccine because it outweighs the risks? What if that child turned out to be the one harmed? Would they be told that they were just one of the unlucky ones and ended up as collateral damage for the greater good? :confused2: Do you think that would satisfy the parents who are now grieving? How would you feel if you were the one who convinced the parents to get their child vaccinated? Please be honest. All I'm saying is that honesty is the best policy, and if there is a risk, however small, it's not up to the government to tell a parent what to do for that very reason. Whether all the diseases will come back with a vengeance is still unknown, especially in first-world countries. I am the first to admit I really don't know the answer, but neither does anyone at this name of the game.
No vaccine is administered without a information sheet being provided and often must be SIGNED first. So your "concerns" are unfounded and false. The government has NEVER required you to give your child a vaccine and you know it. You've been reminded of that repeatedly so I have to assume that, by continuing to make this argument, your just a troll.
It's just a formality. People are not expected to read it carefully. They are expected to sign the dotted line. When you're already at the doctor's, there is a certain amount of intimidation just by the doctor's presence. I cannot imagine someone reading the paper, which takes time, and then telling the doctor they don't want the vaccine. He'd look at you like you were off your rocker, and believe me, he would try to convince you to get it because the benefits would outweigh the risks. The pressure to get the jab would be overwhelming, and at that point, the information sheet might as well have been thrown in the garbage.
Oh bullshit. I've raised six children and never ONCE did I feel PRESSURE from their pediatrician. Why can't you just admit you're LYING. There is NO GOVT MANDATE to get a vaccine. Not one.
I never said the government will force anyone to get their children vaccinated, but there are consequences that give parents no choice if they work and can't leave their kids home alone. Moreover, it appears people do not read the inserts carefully when they come into the office because they've already committed to getting the vaccine. It's like the formality when you're getting married. The preacher says: Speak Now Or Forever Hold Your Peace. Do you think anyone is going to object to the marriage while the ceremony is in progress? :oops:
Again, all parent choices. Since parents HAVE choices, why are you on here advocating for parents NOT to vaccinate.
 
So this was the mother's facebook post (the mother of the infant whom the mother claimed died from the vaccine):

At first I thought this had to be a joke, but then I looked at the comments. All serious and supportive like this one from a 9/11 truther:
No trip to the moon….there has never been a trip to the moon. Our government lies to us all the time. The truth is not in them. Our government has did awful things and hid them and lied about them. The twin towers was all a lie…our own government killed over 3000 people and our President Bush and the rest of them lied about it all. JFK was killed by our own government and Lyndon Johnson wanted to be President and did become President….lies, lies by our own government. And all in our government lies ,lies, and lies….

Then, there was this new post the mother made yesterday:
 
Written to peacegirl:
... yet you exclusively post only one side of ht argument that aims to discredit nearly the entire field of pediatricians and doctors.

And those things posted are often blatant falsehoods or corruptions for cash money. Take for example that crazy video from that website where the doctor said nanobots would be in the covid vaccine and that moderna would be barcoding our forearms. That crazy doctor also kept pronouncing luciferase like Lucifer-ase. It was a clear clarion call to End Times folks and Revelation: i.e. the mark of the bast and also blatantly false. We all know from having the vaccine that it was false.

She actually posted a video like this???

I don’t view videos. If she posted a video like this it just shows she is more off her rocker than I thought.

I posted it but it comes from that childhealthdefense website, the one RFK Jr was heading. These "experts" they are quoting are lunatics. This is like pizzagate level conspiracy stuff.

This one:

Video makes it look like a forearm barcode...the doctor is talking about luciferase which is a thing in biotech...but making it sounds like Lucifer-ase. The video makes it look like you get a barcode on your forearm, but really neither of these were a thing.

View attachment 53981

Nanobots:
View attachment 53982

The site also mentions chemtrails.

Speaking of which, I posted a couple of wackadoo posts from the mother of the child who died and claims it was caused by a vaccine. These were from her facebook page. One of them was about chemtrails. Clearly, the poor mother is completely brainwashed by these charlatans.
I agree with you that some of this stuff sounds nutty.

Sounds?

I do remember hearing the Covid vaccine can change our DNA. I wonder if that’s where nanobots came from? The whole thing sounds ridiculous but does that mean that all of their concerns are unfounded?

Just because someone is nuts doesn't mean they are wrong. HOWEVER, you earlier used an emotional appeal regarding the parents of the children calling people who said they were lying despicable. If we observe a number of delusions and wu, then it looks like a broader pattern, doesn't it?
 
I am concerned that if I sail towards the horizon I will fall off the end of the Earth.

I know what science says about a spherical Earth, bit I am am not blabbing nonsense, just voicing my concern.
How can you use this as a comparison when this has nothing to do with an argument that has not been proven to be 100% true?
Not much can be said to have been proven 100% true. You are creating a mythical, unattainable standard in order to create a gap to justify letting children get sick.
You're still not getting my point. What about the children who die from a vaccine or are permanently damaged? If it's an unattainable standard, would they be told that there is a small risk so they could make an informed decision, or would they be told that they should get the vaccine because it outweighs the risks? What if that child turned out to be the one harmed? Would they be told that they were just one of the unlucky ones and ended up as collateral damage for the greater good? :confused2: Do you think that would satisfy the parents who are now grieving? How would you feel if you were the one who convinced the parents to get their child vaccinated? Please be honest. All I'm saying is that honesty is the best policy, and if there is a risk, however small, it's not up to the government to tell a parent what to do for that very reason. Whether all the diseases will come back with a vengeance is still unknown, especially in first-world countries. I am the first to admit I really don't know the answer, but neither does anyone at this name of the game.
No vaccine is administered without a information sheet being provided and often must be SIGNED first. So your "concerns" are unfounded and false. The government has NEVER required you to give your child a vaccine and you know it. You've been reminded of that repeatedly so I have to assume that, by continuing to make this argument, your just a troll.
It's just a formality. People are not expected to read it carefully. They are expected to sign the dotted line. When you're already at the doctor's, there is a certain amount of intimidation just by the doctor's presence. I cannot imagine someone reading the paper, which takes time, and then telling the doctor they don't want the vaccine. He'd look at you like you were off your rocker, and believe me, he would try to convince you to get it because the benefits would outweigh the risks. The pressure to get the jab would be overwhelming, and at that point, the information sheet might as well have been thrown in the garbage.
Oh bullshit. I've raised six children and never ONCE did I feel PRESSURE from their pediatrician. Why can't you just admit you're LYING. There is NO GOVT MANDATE to get a vaccine. Not one.
I never said the government will force anyone to get their children vaccinated, but there are consequences that give parents no choice if they work and can't leave their kids home alone. Moreover, it appears people do not read the inserts carefully when they come into the office because they've already committed to getting the vaccine. It's like the formality when you're getting married. The preacher says: Speak Now Or Forever Hold Your Peace. Do you think anyone is going to object to the marriage while the ceremony is in progress? :oops:
Again, all parent choices. Since parents HAVE choices, why are you on here advocating for parents NOT to vaccinate.
I’m not advocating anything. I’m just giving my thoughts that concern me since I have grandchildren. I’m trying every which way to understand why I don’t feel confident in the medical industrial complex. If no one wants to discuss this anymore, it’s okay with me. I didn’t know it would go on this long.
 
The preacher says: Speak Now Or Forever Hold Your Peace.
What the preacher says isn't relevant to what you are saying or sharing. Which are nothing but scare tactics from dubious sources (at best) trying to imply a potential risk that you have repeatedly also said you have no real evidence that there is a risk at all.

In of science, what you have been saying are anecdotes, hearsay, misquotes, and promotion of unverified claims.

All for the goal, you say, to help parents makes the right choices. I'm uncertain how you think anecdotes, hearsay, miquotes, and unverified claims are in any way useful for making a choice.
I’m not here to get parents to do anything. They don’t have to listen to me. Im not a doctor.
Not a doctor, not a nurse, not a health care practitioner in any way, didn't take a biology class in college (?). Yet... you have doubts. It is unfortunate you don't start every post with such a disclaimer.
It appears that most children do well on the present vaccine schedule. A small number don’t.
You love abusing with the English language.
 
@peacegirl says she is “not advocating anything,” but has no problem flooding the board with all sorts of links to liars, crackpots, charlatans and grifters.
 
So this was the mother's facebook post (the mother of the infant whom the mother claimed died from the vaccine):

At first I thought this had to be a joke, but then I looked at the comments. All serious and supportive like this one from a 9/11 truther:
No trip to the moon….there has never been a trip to the moon. Our government lies to us all the time. The truth is not in them. Our government has did awful things and hid them and lied about them. The twin towers was all a lie…our own government killed over 3000 people and our President Bush and the rest of them lied about it all. JFK was killed by our own government and Lyndon Johnson wanted to be President and did become President….lies, lies by our own government. And all in our government lies ,lies, and lies….

Then, there was this new post the mother made yesterday:

That sounds like sheer paranoia, which is not going to give them any credibility when it comes to vaccines. I'm not in agreement with any of these conspiracy theories, so please don't put me in this category.
 
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The preacher says: Speak Now Or Forever Hold Your Peace.
What the preacher says isn't relevant to what you are saying or sharing. Which are nothing but scare tactics from dubious sources (at best) trying to imply a potential risk that you have repeatedly also said you have no real evidence that there is a risk at all.

In of science, what you have been saying are anecdotes, hearsay, misquotes, and promotion of unverified claims.

All for the goal, you say, to help parents makes the right choices. I'm uncertain how you think anecdotes, hearsay, miquotes, and unverified claims are in any way useful for making a choice.
I’m not here to get parents to do anything. They don’t have to listen to me. Im not a doctor.
Not a doctor, not a nurse, not a health care practitioner in any way, didn't take a biology class in college (?). Yet... you have doubts. It is unfortunate you don't start every post with such a disclaimer.
:laugh: :rofl: I'm laughing because a disclaimer sounds so funny, as if I really need one when there are biologists, immunologists, and toxicologists who have an issue with certain vaccines. I'm sure there are well-meaning doctors and researchers, but there are a lot of bad apples when money is involved. We already went over this. Conflict of interest is a very bad thing. Once a person has a bad reaction to a vaccine, they're basically on their own. Half the time they aren't believed because their complaints are anecdotal and therefore ignored. There is very little recourse. The vaccine makers go scot-free, and it takes forever to get any kind of compensation, even when the proof of damage is in their favor. Doesn't that bother you?
It appears that most children do well on the present vaccine schedule. A small number don’t.
You love abusing with the English language.
What? How am I abusing with the English language? :oops:
 
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The doctor from the childrenshealthdefense website:

:hysterical::hysterical:

Here, the undisputed evidence in the record is that Registrant lacks authority to practice medicine in Georgia. As discussed above, a physician must be a licensed practitioner to dispense a controlled substance in Georgia. Thus, because Registrant lacks authority to practice medicine in Georgia and, therefore, is not authorized to handle controlled substances in Georgia, Registrant is not eligible to maintain a DEA registration. Accordingly, the Agency will order that Registrant's DEA registration be revoked.

A Tennessee family is suing physician Carrie Madej, DO, and two other doctors for allegedly treating their 80-year-old father's COVID symptoms with hydrogen peroxide, leading to his death. (WSMV4)

Are they sure it wasn't bleach? Not joking.
 
The doctor from the childrenshealthdefense website:

:hysterical::hysterical:

Here, the undisputed evidence in the record is that Registrant lacks authority to practice medicine in Georgia. As discussed above, a physician must be a licensed practitioner to dispense a controlled substance in Georgia. Thus, because Registrant lacks authority to practice medicine in Georgia and, therefore, is not authorized to handle controlled substances in Georgia, Registrant is not eligible to maintain a DEA registration. Accordingly, the Agency will order that Registrant's DEA registration be revoked.

A Tennessee family is suing physician Carrie Madej, DO, and two other doctors for allegedly treating their 80-year-old father's COVID symptoms with hydrogen peroxide, leading to his death. (WSMV4)

Are they sure it wasn't bleach? Not joking.
She sounds very delusional. Sad. :(
 
She sounds very delusional. Sad. :(

These exercises should tell you something about the website. Her deal is that she's raking in cash money from vulnerable people. The links to her info and videos are provided from childrenshealthdefense.org. The "scientific" (crazy) content is being approved by the site and the science officer has a hand in much of that. That's Brian Hopper, one of the studies' authors you had posted where the study got retracted. It's all very untrustworthy from a combination of delusional people and people trying to make a buck and their poor, vulnerable followers.
 
I'm posting videos that I believe will add to the discussion.
Reality doesn't care what you (or anyone else) believes, and nor does anyone here.

You desperately need to stop acting on your beliefs, and instead to actually learn something, so that you can act on knowledge and reason instead.

That you apparently have failed to grasp that the deprecation of belief in favour of knowledge is the entire reason and purpose for this website is both utterly unsuprising and deeply disappointing.
I know the difference between belief and genuine knowledge. But sometimes scientific "theories" are given a status they don't necessarily deserve. Have you ever thought about that?
The fact that you used air quotes around theories says all we need to know.
Why is that an air quote? The word theory was appropriate or there would be no controversy. I didn't mean it to be sarcastic.

Air quotes are a hand gesture using the index and middle fingers to indicate that a word or phrase is being used ironically, sarcastically, or in a non-literal sense.
Saying you don't believe it's actual science.

The standard trap of faith: the faith convinces you that any evidence of it being wrong is somebody lying to you.

Simple test: Falsifiability. What specific test could convince you you are wrong? Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant, what could be measured that would convince you?

A position which can't be falsified is worthless and should be discarded.

(Relativity, for example: you have to use Einsteinan equations with GPS, Newtonian gives the wrong answer. If Newtonian worked and Einsteinian didn't then the theory would be falsified.)
 
There are lots of people who have been helped by carnivore. Only meat, saturated fat, and electrolytes. Some may eat chicken, fish, and some dairy and cheese, but absolutely no sugar and no plant food. It has cured people with Crohn's disease and many other ailments that other diets couldn't touch.
If you are sensitive to some common plant ingredient this might help. But I have done the numbers on this--can't meet current nutritional guidelines this way. Omega-3 and Omega-6 are simply not present in animals to a sufficient degree. I had been eating effectively no plant oils, when the guidelines were revised to give numbers rather than just saying they were good I did the math, found I had to use plant oils. They upset my body a bit more than animal fats, but it ended up being worth it.
I will keep that in mind as I try to see both sides of this difficult issue. It's not black and white, which makes it especially hard to navigate while trying to make heads or tails out of all of the information (including misinformation and disinformation) being thrown around.
True, nothing is truly black nor anything is truly white. Since perfection isn't possible let's pretend black is #010101 and white is #FEFEFE. By that yardstick the issue is black and white, vaccination is that much safer than the disease.
The URL dams it, I'm not going to look. "Entered into hearing record"--this is some politician reading crap into the record. Legitimate science isn't presented that way.
(And what actually matters more is research experience--something his people are also sorely lacking in.)
Of course, but people are concerned about long-term effects that may not have been picked up by the studies. Usually, they don't follow children's long-term health consequences and would never make the connection anyway. Some feel that it's unnatural for children to be injected with so many vaccines. I'm sure vaccines have saved people, but does that mean we can't reevaluate the need for a vaccine for every illness that comes down the pike? Look, I'm being the devil's advocate, so please don't pounce on me. In Florida, they are lightening up on some vaccines to enter school, but not all. This is a first, so we will have to wait and see if certain diseases make a comeback.
Long term effects not picked up?

Denmark, once again. Population level data going back a long ways. If there was anything it would be found. Furthermore, any unknowns would masquerade as something else. We would still see them even if we didn't understand them. (Think of the early days of AIDS. We could see the manifestation of a bunch of rare problems suddenly popping up even before we knew why. Then we traced it to immune collapse and saw the bunch of varied things had one root. Then we found HIV.)

Unnatural. Yeah, living isn't natural. The natural state is for most kids to die.

If you want to reevaluate the need then you need to show what changed in the threat model. Note that the system already does such reanalysis--I have been vaccinated for smallpox, it's no longer done because the threat is gone. Likewise, in areas with endemic polio the attenuated vaccine is used. It carries a slight risk and is not used in areas where polio has been eradicated. They use the inactivated vaccine there, it doesn't provide nearly the protection but it's enough for herd immunity. And note how influenza vaccines used to be quadrivalent--now they are trivalent becuase the Covid lockdown appears to have killed off the cone clade that only lived in humans. (The clock hasn't run out on declaring it extinct, but since influenza vaccine production requires live agents making it was deemed an undue risk of reintroducing it.)

Devil's advocate? No, a devil's advocate is testing the robustness by trying to poke holes (which is a completely routine thing to me writing code), but once something has been demonstrated not to be a hole they don't keep poking it.

And we don't need to wait and see if the disease make a comeback--we are already seeing it now. The US is no longer considered free of measles. You welcomed the killer into the country.
 
I’m sure everyone here will immediately shut down, but it may have some validity.


Another talking head. Nope.

But there has been a persistent effort to discredit mRNA technology on the basis that it somehow modifies DNA--yet nothing of the sort has ever been shown.
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
...5800-1775=3025 were unvaccinated. ..

Err, 4025, which is more than double deaths of those matching vaccination records.
That's all well and good, but you cannot tell someone to take a vaccine when there is an element of risk. You can tell them that the risk is minimal, but you cannot tell them that they will not be the one who gets the bullet. That is my only grievance.
But why is it acceptable for parents to take a 1 in 1,000 risk of killing their children?
That is assuming that without the vaccine, children will die of measles. I have not seen that happening in first world countries even as less people are getting their children vaccinated.
Then you need to get your vision checked.

3 died last year. Running right around the historical 1 in 1,000. In an unvaccinated population everyone gets it at least once (yes, it gives immunity--but that immunity can be erased) so that's 342M / 1 in 1,000 = 342k / 80 yeary (lifespan) = 4,275 per year, almost all children. God will be pleased with all the deaths. (Look at the Bible--God does the killing, not Satan. He's the one into megadeaths.)
 
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