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ICE murders another American.

Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Right...it's the LOCAL police's fault that they broke his rib and ran.
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Local police could have, and should have, provided for some de-escalation here.

And I would still like to see some citation about this being the incident where his ribs were broken, and also a citation about the claimed incident that allegedly made him so angry.
A lot of tension could also be eliminated by not arresting people without warrants and not going after people not guilty of crimes.
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True. ICE has been acting quite badly overall, due to both bad leadership and bad training/recruiting.

That is also why I think local police should be helping with immigration enforcement, instead of protecting illegals.

He could have had 4 or 5, too, in which case these agents who executed him most likely knew him.
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If he kept fighting with ICE 4 or 5 times, that further undermines the characterizations of him as just a peaceful guy.

How does that justify executing him?
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Never said it did.

The LEFT isn't the problem. Trump is the problem.
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BOTH are the problem. That's what you partisans keep not getting. Before Trump was elected the first time, the Left gave us major riots in cities like Ferguson, Baltimore, and less than two months before the 2016 election, in Charlotte.
In 2019 Dems were engaging in a contest on who would be more pro-illegal. It was quite a shameful display, and without COVID and Trump's mismanagement of that crisis, I am sure he would have won reelection, because Dems had moved so far to the left by that time.
He created the immigration problem and has been using it to try to agitate people into justifying a claim of the Insurrection Act.
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No, Trump did not create the immigration problem. That is a preposterous assertion.
He lied about the number of undocumented immigrants and created a quota system around it.
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How exactly did he lie about the number of illegal aliens?
He has been inflaming the issue by calling people pieces of trash and giving agents immunity to violently assault and execute people.
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Yeah, this part is bad, of course. But that does not mean that the Dem approach is therefore good.
If we simply had stuck to a system that worked prior to Trump telling the Republicans in Congress to do nothing--
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But the system was not working. The border has been a mess ever since illegals figured out how easy it is to abuse the asylum system to get in. And the solution is not to just release them into the US.
where courts determine guilt over time and ICE is used sparingly to capture violent felonious immigrants who do not show up in courts for their removal, then everything would be fine.
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That hasn't been working either. Sanctuary cities like SF are deliberately undermining ICE. San Francisco in 2015 (before Trump, mind you!) requested one José Inez García Zárate, a multiple felon in the US illegally, for a local warrant. But then they decided they did not want to prosecute him, but they also refused to hand him back, and just released him into the wild. Was "everything fine" when he picked up a gun and murdered Kate Steinle?
Instead, we've got Trump trying to encroach on unconstitutionally having a Standing Army not checked by Congress for his own purposes. People have a right to be angry about it and protest.
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Your Ilk does not want local police to help with immigration enforcement. But you also do not want ICE to be beefed up and to do immigration raids themselves. You just don't want any real immigration enforcement.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
The Democrats lost in 2024 because of inflation, not immigration. Most American's lives are not negatively impacted by undocumented people in this country.
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It was multiple things. Yes, it was inflation. But it was also illegal immigration. It was also Kamala Harris running a poor campaign.
The obsession with undocumented immigrants is so damn unhealthy.
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No, what is unhealthy is the support so many on the Left have with illegal migration. Look at that Spain thread. Pood was positively giddy at the prospect of Muslims taking over Spain!
Covid-19 killed 1+ million Americans. cancers kill over 600,000 annually. Access to health care is very difficult in rural areas with notable delays.
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What does that have to do with illegals from El Salvador and similar places crossing the border illegally by the 100,000s?
Housing is getting harder and more expensive to access.
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Do you think housing is easier or harder to access when there are 100,000s of illegal people coming into the US, thus increasing demand for housing?
Undocumented workers ain't a problem worth messing one's pants over.
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I disagree. But thanks for at least admitting that your Ilk does not want to fix the problem, because you do not see it as a problem at all.

And I think many on the Left are like Pood, whether they admit it or not. They want western societies to be overwhelmed with mass influx from the Third World.
 
Gospel said:
Minneapolis police complained about a lack of communication with law enforcement from ICE.
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Communication is a two-way road. Minneapolis is a sanctuary city, meaning that its politicians have decreed that MPD cannot cooperate with ICE.
 
thebeave said:
Derec said:
No, what is unhealthy is the support so many on the Left have with illegal migration.
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There's that, and also the whole "white people suck" thing going around, most notably by white people themselves.

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I don't watch Jimmy Fallon, or late night TV, and frankly don't give a shit what he has to say about anything.
 
Derec said:
Elixir said:
You have to keep in mind that Derec is NOT a trumpsucker!
:rimshot:
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Unironically, I am not.
But I am also not a sucker of the far left "no human is illegal on stolen land" idiots.

Neither of us likes Trump. But I at least understand that the failures of the Democratic Party played a major role in Trump getting elected twice.
And immigration was a major such failure. Not only on the border, where Biden and his Border Czarina Kamala did a bang-up job, but also Democrats running sanctuary cities and states where they are going out of their way not to cooperate with immigration authorities, and are even hindering their work. A good example of that is San Francisco releasing a felonious illegal García Zárate, despite Obama-era ICE filing an detainer. GZ then went on to kill an innocent young woman.

Had Dems been more sane on immigration, Trump would have lost a major issue. Remember also that in debates starting in Summer 2019, many Dem presidential candidates supported decriminalizing illegal border crossings.
Most Democrats promise to decriminalize border crossings during 2020 debate
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Not to start an argument by stating the obvious but failures of the Democratic Party pales in comparison in comparison with the mistakes and outright deliberate evil done by the GOP since the election of Ronald Reagan, but mostly in service of Donald Trump and his beloved overlord, Putin—Abd the legions of racist homophobic idiots who support that shit.
 
Toni said:
the legions of racist homophobic idiots who support that shit
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... bear the responsibility.
The rest of us bear the blame.
Why did we raise legions of racist homophobic idiots?
 
thebeave said:
and also the whole "white people suck" thing going around, most notably by white people themselves.
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That's good. A little introspection is always worth its pain.
That's how a conservative avoids being another "I'm not a trumpsucker".
 
Can someone splain to me how we got from a significant event of a US citizen being executed by masked government agents to suddenly white people are the victims because some rando said something mean? Can the usual suspects just be a little more contrite here, no victim blaming, no butbutbuts, no deflection, just say it happened then *FULL STOP*? There's a choice here: either continue saying things that provide support and cover for the fascism or say it was flat out wrong and that's that.
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Can someone splain to me how we got from a significant event of a US citizen being executed by masked government agents to suddenly white people are the victims because some rando said something mean? Can the usual suspects just be a little more contrite here, no victim blaming, no butbutbuts, no deflection, just say it happened then *FULL STOP*? There's a choice here: either continue saying things that provide support and cover for the fascism or say it was flat out wrong and that's that.
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They'd rather derail the discussion to talk about Jimmy fucking Fallon rather than talk about the ICE murders. That's how little they care.
 
GenesisNemesis said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Can someone splain to me how we got from a significant event of a US citizen being executed by masked government agents to suddenly white people are the victims because some rando said something mean? Can the usual suspects just be a little more contrite here, no victim blaming, no butbutbuts, no deflection, just say it happened then *FULL STOP*? There's a choice here: either continue saying things that provide support and cover for the fascism or say it was flat out wrong and that's that.
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They'd rather derail the discussion to talk about Jimmy fucking Fallon rather than talk about the ICE murders. That's how little they care.
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That's what I keep pointing out: when given a choice of "just flatly say it's wrong, and get into the habit of that" and "be a 🤡" they choose 🤡.
 
Jarhyn said:
GenesisNemesis said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Can someone splain to me how we got from a significant event of a US citizen being executed by masked government agents to suddenly white people are the victims because some rando said something mean? Can the usual suspects just be a little more contrite here, no victim blaming, no butbutbuts, no deflection, just say it happened then *FULL STOP*? There's a choice here: either continue saying things that provide support and cover for the fascism or say it was flat out wrong and that's that.
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They'd rather derail the discussion to talk about Jimmy fucking Fallon rather than talk about the ICE murders. That's how little they care.
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That's what I keep pointing out: when given a choice of "just flatly say it's wrong, and get into the habit of that" and "be a 🤡" they choose 🤡.
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It's always "no, no, the victim was culpable!" Abuser mentality.
 
GenesisNemesis said:
It's always "no, no, the victim was culpable!" Abuser mentality.
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I think some of it is fear. If you can persuade yourself that the victim was culpable, then that means that as long as you yourself are squeaky clean, never resist, never rock the boat, never even hint that the regime is anything other than wonderful... then it can't be you next.

But of course, it could. It could be anyone.

And note that TSwizzle and Derec are both immigrants. I suspect there is a powerful drive to deny the possibility that they could be disappeared or killed by the State Security Police, just because they left their papers at home, or because some underpaid clerk made an error and sent masked goons to the wrong address.
 
I notice too, using our local ‘libertarians’ as the gage, that the self described libertarians generally like the current government using facial recognition and other biometrics to identify and track political opposition. That is on top of the glee when the boots are standing on the correct necks.
 
laughing dog said:
Mr Pretti wrote “bloom” in caps once which contains the letters B,L, and M in sequence. You know what THAT signifies!!!!
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Beurow of Land Managment?
Derec said:
the failures of the Democratic Party played a major role in Trump getting elected twice.
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That is some kind of victum blaming, right there. Blame the Dem party fo not being strong enough to stand up to the Repug party. Why not blame ME for not running for Prez myself. Let's blame Pretti for not drawing his gun and shooting first.
Derec said:
running sanctuary cities and states where they are going out of their way not to cooperate with immigration authorities,
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Derec said:
many Dem presidential candidates supported decriminalizing illegal border crossings.
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That is a LOCAL decision. Many of us do not have a problem with immagrents. My grandparents were immagrents.
Many places actualy need immagrents.
Derec said:
Actually, a lot of problems could be avoided if this silly attitude of not cooperating with ICE were lifted.
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Yeah, no problems if you never question authority. Immagration itself is not a problem. We actualy need immagrents.
Restrictive immagration policies are the problem. Leading to unofficial migration. Slapping the 'illegal' lable on it just makes it sound worse than it is.
Derec said:
Even if this were true [citation needed], how does that justify vandalism?
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It justifys a lot more.
Oh, Dear! Vandalism! Horrors!
Derec said:
That means that y'all do not want any immigration enforcement whatsoever.
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Like the 'war on drugs', prohabition is not the answer.
Derec said:
And the solution is not to just release them into the US.
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The solution is to efficiently turn them into productive citizens.
Derec said:
Your Ilk does not want local police to help with immigration enforcement. But you also do not want ICE to be beefed up and to do immigration raids themselves. You just don't want any real immigration enforcement.
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Nationaly, immigration enforcement should be confined to the border.
Localy, States and citys should decide for themselves, and ASK for help if they need it.

If 'immigration enforcement' were real, ICE raids would only be happening in red states/citys. Not where migrents are welcomed.
 
bilby said:
GenesisNemesis said:
It's always "no, no, the victim was culpable!" Abuser mentality.
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I think some of it is fear. If you can persuade yourself that the victim was culpable, then that means that as long as you yourself are squeaky clean, never resist, never rock the boat, never even hint that the regime is anything other than wonderful... then it can't be you next.

But of course, it could. It could be anyone.

And note that TSwizzle and Derec are both immigrants. I suspect there is a powerful drive to deny the possibility that they could be disappeared or killed by the State Security Police, just because they left their papers at home, or because some underpaid clerk made an error and sent masked goons to the wrong address.
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There actually is a lot of negative feelings towards immigrants who don’t come into the country ‘the right way’ on the part of those who came in ‘the right way.’ I understand it to a certain degree. For most who choose to immigrate to the US, it is a lengthy arduous process—and an expensive one. There are quotas. A lot of red tape, uncertainty. In addition to the many challenges of leaving one’s own country for somewhere else.

Of course those who come here without the appropriate paperwork face a lot of difficulties, and an even more arduous process, if even that is possible, and expense, danger, hardship along with the challenges of learning to make your way in a new country.

All immigrants face a lot of hurdles, including prejudices and ignorance and opposition. In this country, all immigrants are often seen as illegal or at least suspect, or at least those with darker skin, or differently shaped eyes than Western European. I can understand why legal immigrants would resent undocumented or workers—it is easy to blame the bigotry on the actions of those whose experience is different.

As many people agree, the US immigration policies and processes is long overdue for updates and simplification. Unfortunately, all such attempts have been scuttled for political purposes, mostly to keep segments of the electorate angry and against ‘the other guys.’ Same as with abortion, to be honest.
 
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