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Immigration Issues

Elixir said:
Bomb#20 said:
Ordinary jails are full of prisoners who haven't had trials.
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All of whom have had the opportunity to talk to a lawyer and/or have been assigned one to represent them.
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Somebody tell you that in civics class? And you believed him?

False equivalence noted.
The question “why does Bomb#20 who certainly knows better, drawvfskse equivalences?” raised its ugly head.
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Where the bejesus am I supposed to have drawn an equivalence? I pointed out a counterexample to the inference rule the previous poster relied on. A counterexample is not a claim of equivalence.

Bomb#20 said:
That's what happens when police arrest someone -- he's detained while awaiting trial, held based on what he's accused of, not what he's convicted of.
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Yeah, sometimes they even tell them what they’re accused of.
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Do you seriously think the people ICE arrests don't know it's because the government thinks they're in the country illegally?

Bomb#20 said:
Do you feel that means an ordinary jail is a concentration camp and accused burglars are a persecuted minority?
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Stupid question; another attempt to draw a false equivalence.
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See above -- it was an attempt to get the previous poster to apply logic to his own argument. I know you and logic are legally separated, but until you get a restraining order it's liable to keep coming into your view.

Shame, B20. Keep pretending this is “normal” if it comforts you.
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Where the bejesus did I suggest this is normal? I called it "egregious", remember? I'm here to defend Colonel Sanders, not the orange sociopath.

I’m pretty sure the thought police won’t target you for that particular delusion.
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What thought police? You think we're in Britain?
 
Bomb#20 said:
AA is not an internment camp; it does not fit the historical definition of "concentration camp"; its inmates are neither persecuted minorities nor political prisoners.
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From Wtktpedia:
"Trump has called for "huge camps" where migrants would be held in internment camps prior to deportation."
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The whole immagration issue is absolutly political. And the enforcement is totaly against minoritys.

Bomb#20 said:
The no-lawyers/due process/oversight is because he's an asshole, but that isn't a reason to think most of the prisoners have a legal right to stay.
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Being an asshole is not the excuse you think it is. Not an excuse to let it stand. Using that as an excuse makes you an asshole. Due Process is an obligation before ANY action.
Six months now and still no oversight or due process.
Bomb#20 said:
But you know what criticism was conspicuously absent from that long list of allegations? There was no claim that the inmates were US citizens, or green card holders, or visitors with valid unexpired visas or other temporary permission.
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Wikipedia also did not say they were illeagle either.
Go ahead, quote me a percentage of how many proveable criminals are in there. I have heard up to 85%.
THAT IS NOT ENOUGH. It needs to be 100%. There needs to be ZERO innocents. The innocents deserve their Due Process. (they all do actualy)
Due Process is what sorts them out.
Bomb#20 said:
I'm pretty sure if the inmates hadn't come without permission or overstayed, somebody would have mentioned that detail.
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Of course the administration didn't mention that. But the inmates and their famlies DID.
Bomb#20 said:
"hysterical and frankly, offensive to anyone who knows the first thing about what the Nazis did."
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The very existance of Alligator Oubliette is offensive to anyone with a concious. And is teaching us, by example, what the Nazis did.
 
Bomb#20 said:
Do you seriously think the people ICE arrests don't know it's because the government thinks they're in the country illegally?
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do you seriously think the people that iCE arrests who are here legally, know that it’s here because the government thinks they’re in the country illegally? I think such people know it’s because ICE has arrest quotas and anyone with off-white skin can be made to retroactively qualify regardless of any immigration or criminal status, with no consequences to ICE whether or not the excuse is grounded in reality.
 
Elixir said:
All of whom have had the opportunity to talk to a lawyer and/or have been assigned one to represent them.
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https://abcnews.go.com/US/lawyers-a...rity-denying-legal-counsel/story?id=129335914
“One ICE agent said if we let you see your clients, we would have to let all the attorneys see their clients, and imagine the chaos,” said another attorney who asked not to be named. “And I said to that person, yeah, you do have to let all the attorneys see their clients. You do have to accommodate that. That’s the Constitution. You chose to put them here. I didn't bring this guy here, you did."
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unapologetic said:
Bomb#20 said:
AA is not an internment camp; it does not fit the historical definition of "concentration camp"; its inmates are neither persecuted minorities nor political prisoners.
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From Wtktpedia:
"Trump has called for "huge camps" where migrants would be held in internment camps prior to deportation."
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What's your point, "Trump said it; I believe it; that settles it."? Trump's an idiot. Why on earth would you assume he knows what "internment camp" means?

The whole immagration issue is absolutly political.
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And? Do you know what "political prisoner" means? In NYC in the 90s, Broken Window Theory was absolutely political. You think that magically makes a guy arrested for breaking windows a political prisoner?

And the enforcement is totaly against minoritys.
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A lot of illegal immigrants from Anglo countries, are there?

If Norway arrested people for having Syrian parents, that would be persecution. If Norway arrests people for wife-beating, that is not persecution even if most of those arrested for it turn out to have Syrian parents. The circumstance that people with Norwegian parents tend not to beat their wives does not magically make enforcement of wife-beating laws persecution of minorities.

Bomb#20 said:
The no-lawyers/due process/oversight is because he's an asshole, but that isn't a reason to think most of the prisoners have a legal right to stay.
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Being an asshole is not the excuse you think it is. Not an excuse to let it stand. Using that as an excuse makes you an asshole.
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:rolleyes2: Where the bejesus did you see me use it as an excuse? It's inexcusable -- that's why I called him an asshole! My point was not to excuse Trump's lawlessness but to draw your attention to the fact that his lawlessness is not pertinent to the question actually in dispute between us. What, you think you can make any random claim you please, say Trump being a bad man proves your claim, and then accuse everyone who points out your non sequitur of defending Trump? That's not how logic works.

Due Process is an obligation before ANY action.
Six months now and still no oversight or due process.
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Duh. From this you can reasonably conclude that Trump is a bad man. So what? How the heck is that evidence that the people in AA were in the U.S. legally?

Bomb#20 said:
But you know what criticism was conspicuously absent from that long list of allegations? There was no claim that the inmates were US citizens, or green card holders, or visitors with valid unexpired visas or other temporary permission.
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Wikipedia also did not say they were illeagle either.
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And? Wikipedia is supposed to be neutral. It's not Wikipedia's job to opine whether they're legal or not; it's its job to report what others are claiming.

Go ahead, quote me a percentage of how many proveable criminals are in there. I have heard up to 85%.
THAT IS NOT ENOUGH. It needs to be 100%. There needs to be ZERO innocents. The innocents deserve their Due Process. (they all do actualy)
Due Process is what sorts them out.
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Duh. You keep presenting arguments for Trump being a bad man. That's not what's in dispute. If 15% are there by mistake, that makes it a shoddy irresponsibly-run detention center; it doesn't make it a concentration camp. What, you think 85% of Dachau inmates were guilty of anything real?

Bomb#20 said:
I'm pretty sure if the inmates hadn't come without permission or overstayed, somebody would have mentioned that detail.
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Of course the administration didn't mention that.
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:consternation2: What, you think that list of wrongdoings at AA was Wikipedia quoting the administration?!? "Somebody" does not mean "the administration". I'm pretty sure if the inmates hadn't come without permission or overstayed, somebody who Wikipedia cited would have mentioned that detail.

But the inmates and their famlies DID.
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If so, evidently the news media outlets that Wikipedia editors consider reliable didn't think their claims were credible enough to quote, at least not in large enough numbers to make up a majority.

Bomb#20 said:
"hysterical and frankly, offensive to anyone who knows the first thing about what the Nazis did."
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The very existance of Alligator Oubliette is offensive to anyone with a concious. And is teaching us, by example, what the Nazis did.
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Ah, proof-by-repetition. If you need to be taught what the Nazis did, go read The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.
 
TSwizzle said:
GenesisNemesis said:
TSwizzle said:
scombrid said:
TSwizzle said:
scombrid said:
TSwizzle said:
Well, Tampon Tim and effeminate soy boy Jacob Frey have done it again. Stirred up emotions to prompt another soft headed and gullible stooge to interfere with federal agents and tragically, the stooge has been killed. Cannon fodder for the clowns Tim and Frey.
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I wish they had mowed you people down on the steps of the Capitol. My SHTF retribution list just keeps getting longer and longer.
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“You people”? What are you on about? Interesting that you would be okay with “mowing people down” when you find that behavior objectionable.

In any event, this has been another tragic and totally avoidable incident but unfortunately there will probably more thanks to the irresponsible rhetoric of clowns like Tampon Tim and effeminate soy boy Frey.
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You people are gleeful when the government kills some “soy boy”. Fair is fair.
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Behave yourself. I am certainly not gleeful about these poor saps foolishly putting themselves in danger because they have been manipulated by clowns like Tampon Tim and effeminate soy boy Frey. They are the ones that will be gleeful, not me.
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You're excusing murder and you're telling people to "behave themselves".
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Why do you cut what I actually posted?
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Because it's dishonest BS like all of your posts and I don't care about you.
 
Elixir said:
Bomb#20 said:
Do you seriously think the people ICE arrests don't know it's because the government thinks they're in the country illegally?
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do you seriously think the people that iCE arrests who are here legally, know that it’s here because the government thinks they’re in the country illegally? I think such people know it’s because ICE has arrest quotas and anyone with off-white skin can be made to retroactively qualify regardless of any immigration or criminal status, with no consequences to ICE whether or not the excuse is grounded in reality.
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48,377 out of 65,735—or 73.6% held in ICE detention have no criminal conviction according to data current as of November 30, 2025. Many of those convicted committed only minor offenses, including traffic violations.
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Toni said:
It’s inmates exactly are persecuted minoriti Those incarcerated at Alligator Alcatraz ARE persecuted minorities and political prisoners.
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More than like they are people who entered the US illegally or overstayed their visa and are awaiting removal. There is nothing unusual about it.
 
crazyfingers said:
robnisch said:
Is Bovino Italian for BS.
Want bet he retires real soon.
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And lost access to his DHS Social Media account

Of course, Bovino did exactly what his boss, Noem does. And her Boss Trump.

They are all lying trolls. But Bovino is, I guess expandable.

Maybe Trump just doesn't like someone else getting all the press.

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“Don’t let the door hit you. Oh, and don’t step in the Bovino in the way out!
 
ZiprHead said:
Elixir said:
Bomb#20 said:
Do you seriously think the people ICE arrests don't know it's because the government thinks they're in the country illegally?
Click to expand...
do you seriously think the people that iCE arrests who are here legally, know that it’s here because the government thinks they’re in the country illegally? I think such people know it’s because ICE has arrest quotas and anyone with off-white skin can be made to retroactively qualify regardless of any immigration or criminal status, with no consequences to ICE whether or not the excuse is grounded in reality.
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"Qualified immunity" is a travesty that afflicts all law enforcement in the U.S.; it ought to be abolished. (Fat chance of that under the current SCOTUS.) It's not specific to ICE though -- if it makes AA a concentration camp it makes Rikers Island a concentration camp.

48,377 out of 65,735—or 73.6% held in ICE detention have no criminal conviction according to data current as of November 30, 2025. Many of those convicted committed only minor offenses, including traffic violations.
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No doubt; but I'm not clear on what you think it has to do with the dispute you're commenting on. When a Guatemalan citizen crosses into the U.S. without permission he isn't issued a criminal conviction at the border. So why would his having no criminal conviction have any bearing on whether he entered illegally?
 
robnisch said:
I just cannot understand why we don't use those billions that we spend on ICE to create more immigration vetting and courts that would let people come here that want to do the jobs that we need done.
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Because none of this has anything to do with being sensible, humane, or doing what is right. It is only to garner and retain the votes of people of piss-poor character. To do this you have to conduct yourself in a piss-poor manner, satisfy the desires of these reprobates, make them feel like winners.
If these people were properly raised, educated properly so as to maximize their potential, this would be less of a problem as fewer would feel like losers looking for someone to blame for their lot in life.
But we have two critical issues in this country that work against our becoming a more sensible and humane society. One is the Supreme Court giving parents too much freedom in raising their children. Procreation does not endow anyone with the ability to properly raise children.
Another is structuring an education system that serves capitalism first and society second, shoveling people into jobs capitalism needs instead of what the individual may best excel at.
 
Bomb#20 said:
ZiprHead said:
Elixir said:
Bomb#20 said:
Do you seriously think the people ICE arrests don't know it's because the government thinks they're in the country illegally?
Click to expand...
do you seriously think the people that iCE arrests who are here legally, know that it’s here because the government thinks they’re in the country illegally? I think such people know it’s because ICE has arrest quotas and anyone with off-white skin can be made to retroactively qualify regardless of any immigration or criminal status, with no consequences to ICE whether or not the excuse is grounded in reality.
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"Qualified immunity" is a travesty that afflicts all law enforcement in the U.S.; it ought to be abolished. (Fat chance of that under the current SCOTUS.) It's not specific to ICE though -- if it makes AA a concentration camp it makes Rikers Island a concentration camp.

48,377 out of 65,735—or 73.6% held in ICE detention have no criminal conviction according to data current as of November 30, 2025. Many of those convicted committed only minor offenses, including traffic violations.
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No doubt; but I'm not clear on what you think it has to do with the dispute you're commenting on. When a Guatemalan citizen crosses into the U.S. without permission he isn't issued a criminal conviction at the border. So why would his having no criminal conviction have any bearing on whether he entered illegally?
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Some might think it’s cute you think ICE agents necessarily know or care whether someone is here legally or is a US citizen. I don’t.
 
Bomb#20 said:
ZiprHead said:
Elixir said:
Bomb#20 said:
Do you seriously think the people ICE arrests don't know it's because the government thinks they're in the country illegally?
Click to expand...
do you seriously think the people that iCE arrests who are here legally, know that it’s here because the government thinks they’re in the country illegally? I think such people know it’s because ICE has arrest quotas and anyone with off-white skin can be made to retroactively qualify regardless of any immigration or criminal status, with no consequences to ICE whether or not the excuse is grounded in reality.
Click to expand...
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"Qualified immunity" is a travesty that afflicts all law enforcement in the U.S.; it ought to be abolished. (Fat chance of that under the current SCOTUS.) It's not specific to ICE though -- if it makes AA a concentration camp it makes Rikers Island a concentration camp.

48,377 out of 65,735—or 73.6% held in ICE detention have no criminal conviction according to data current as of November 30, 2025. Many of those convicted committed only minor offenses, including traffic violations.
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No doubt; but I'm not clear on what you think it has to do with the dispute you're commenting on. When a Guatemalan citizen crosses into the U.S. without permission he isn't issued a criminal conviction at the border. So why would his having no criminal conviction have any bearing on whether he entered illegally?
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Two reasons. Trump said the effort would concentrate on the violent murderers, rapists, and gang members. This is proof he lied.

Second, It directly addresses Elixir's first question above. ICE is arresting and deporting many who are here legally for no reason. At least one who had been granted citizenship but hadn't yet taken the oath. ICE is also targeting those granted asylum. Such as the recent cases of Iranian gay people who, if sent back, would surely be at risk of execution.

Do keep up, please.
 
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