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Dealing With Drug Cartels

 
 
 
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steve_bank

Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Joined
Nov 9, 2017
Messages
16,594
Location
seattle
Basic Beliefs
secular-skeptic
It goes without saying illegal drugs are an international business. Drug cartels appear to orate with impunity in Mexico, Columbia and Venezuela. Raw materials come from China.

Addiction and death on a large scale, a clear and present danger to the USA. Deaths recherche down to kids.
It goes without saying illegal drugs are an international business. Drug cartels appea to operatewith impunity in Mexico, Columbia and Venezuela. Raw materials come from China.

Addiction and death on a large scale, a clear and present danger to the USA. Deaths reaching down to kids.

When somebody shoots up a church or crowd we call it mass murder. It is a national tragedy when a school gets shot up. What about all the deaths from drug smuggling?

You can look at the estates. Drug related medical care is a diver in healthy care costs.

thenestledrecovery.com

Drug Overdose Deaths Per Year | The Nestled Recovery Center

There are approximately 585,000 drug overdose deaths globally per year, according to the World Health Organization (WHO). In the United States, the Centers
thenestledrecovery.com thenestledrecovery.com
drugabusestatistics.org

NCDAS: Substance Abuse and Addiction Statistics [2025]

The National Center for Drug Abuse Statistics has the latest facts & statistics on substance abuse, including alcoholism & opioid addiction.
drugabusestatistics.org drugabusestatistics.org
en.wikipedia.org

Opioid epidemic in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org


One of the boats recently sunk was a submersible boat. It runs just beneath the surface. Cartels have autonomous submarines. Sophisticated tunnels under the border.

en.wikipedia.org

Narco-submarine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

It is a sophisticated coordinated intentional attack on the security of the USA. As far as I a concerned eradicate them all.

I would support a federal mandatory death penalty for both drug smugglers and human traffickers. We have an ongoing problem with expelling drug criminals who turn around and cone right back.

I remember the 70s in the NYC area when Rockefeller cracked down on casual pot users. Supplies dried up. For the average pot paddler and user the risks far outweighed the rewards. Long jail sentences.


The 1970s Rockefeller drug crackdown in New York refers to the extremely punitive Rockefeller Drug Laws of 1973, which imposed mandatory, long-term prison sentences for drug offenses, including those involving marijuana
. Though they were initially intended to target major drug traffickers, the laws ultimately led to the mass incarceration of low-level and nonviolent offenders, primarily from poor Black and Latino communities.
Click to expand...

Here in Seattle when dug laws were loosed we ended up with people passed out in the streets, and our revolving door justice system. Human nature.


Teddy Roosevelt sad ‘Walk softly and carry a big stick' It is time to use the big stick. Go after cartels where they live.

It is all about risks. Cartel leaders feel relatively secure. Rewards far outweigh risks.

I do not think it is a stretch to call them terrorist. Cartel leaders feel fairly safe and secure. The rewards far outweigh risks.


I think Trump has a point. We have been giving a lot of aid over decades to Central and South American governments and there has been little benefit to us or the foreign states.
 
So far, ten military strikes on alleged drug cartel boats and an estimated 43 people killed. No authorization from Congress (which would probably comply), with the same legality of Bush 2's attacks on "unlawful combatants" in the MIddle East. No evidence presented by the WH that these were in fact cartel boats. Absolutely no liability for Donald, thanks to SCOTUS. Potential for unlimited incursions, with an aircraft carrier deployed to the Caribbean -- a boneheaded decision -- plain to be seen. Does anyone put it past Trump to order the occupation of the Canal Zone?
 
steve_bank said:
It goes without saying illegal drugs are an international business. Drug cartels appear to orate with impunity in Mexico, Columbia and Venezuela. Raw materials come from China.

Addiction and death on a large scale, a clear and present danger to the USA. Deaths recherche down to kids.
It goes without saying illegal drugs are an international business. Drug cartels appea to operatewith impunity in Mexico, Columbia and Venezuela. Raw materials come from China.

Addiction and death on a large scale, a clear and present danger to the USA. Deaths reaching down to kids.

When somebody shoots up a church or crowd we call it mass murder. It is a national tragedy when a school gets shot up. What about all the deaths from drug smuggling?

You can look at the estates. Drug related medical care is a diver in healthy care costs.

thenestledrecovery.com

Drug Overdose Deaths Per Year | The Nestled Recovery Center

There are approximately 585,000 drug overdose deaths globally per year, according to the World Health Organization (WHO). In the United States, the Centers
thenestledrecovery.com thenestledrecovery.com
drugabusestatistics.org

NCDAS: Substance Abuse and Addiction Statistics [2025]

The National Center for Drug Abuse Statistics has the latest facts & statistics on substance abuse, including alcoholism & opioid addiction.
drugabusestatistics.org drugabusestatistics.org
en.wikipedia.org

Opioid epidemic in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org


One of the boats recently sunk was a submersible boat. It runs just beneath the surface. Cartels have autonomous submarines. Sophisticated tunnels under the border.

en.wikipedia.org

Narco-submarine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

It is a sophisticated coordinated intentional attack on the security of the USA. As far as I a concerned eradicate them all.

I would support a federal mandatory death penalty for both drug smugglers and human traffickers. We have an ongoing problem with expelling drug criminals who turn around and cone right back.

I remember the 70s in the NYC area when Rockefeller cracked down on casual pot users. Supplies dried up. For the average pot paddler and user the risks far outweighed the rewards. Long jail sentences.


The 1970s Rockefeller drug crackdown in New York refers to the extremely punitive Rockefeller Drug Laws of 1973, which imposed mandatory, long-term prison sentences for drug offenses, including those involving marijuana
. Though they were initially intended to target major drug traffickers, the laws ultimately led to the mass incarceration of low-level and nonviolent offenders, primarily from poor Black and Latino communities.
Click to expand...

Here in Seattle when dug laws were loosed we ended up with people passed out in the streets, and our revolving door justice system. Human nature.


Teddy Roosevelt sad ‘Walk softly and carry a big stick' It is time to use the big stick. Go after cartels where they live.

It is all about risks. Cartel leaders feel relatively secure. Rewards far outweigh risks.

I do not think it is a stretch to call them terrorist. Cartel leaders feel fairly safe and secure. The rewards far outweigh risks.


I think Trump has a point. We have been giving a lot of aid over decades to Central and South American governments and there has been little benefit to us or the foreign states.
Click to expand...
Oh, bless your heart…
 
steve_bank said:
Addiction and death on a large scale, a clear and present danger to the USA. Deaths reaching down to kids.
Click to expand...
The problem is obviously not foreign people supplying the product.
The problem is USA people willing to pay huge amounts of money for it. We insist on getting our fix.
From alcohol to cocaine, fentanyl to nicotine, hydrocodone to Xanax, Prozac to heroin, marijuana to...
My countrymen will spend a huge amount of money on drugs. Because they don't like the reality we've produced. I can't blame that on China or Columbia or Mexico, we did it and are still doing it!
 
Harping on this again? Healthcare cost of illicit drug use is a small fraction of that for treating obesity. Scrape away licitly sold opioids and it's nearly a rounding error. How about we "eradicate" all those who push shitty food?
Obesity has prevented the US from meeting recruitment goals of the armed forces/law enforcement. That, some could argue affects the security of the USA.
 
Prohibition inevitably leads to powerful and violent gangs, and to widespread crime both by the gangs themselves, and by addicts seeking to afford their habit.

The problem is prohibition.

Prohibition is a really bad idea, but it's very popular with authoritarians who believe the utterly nonsensical idea that making something illegal, and then violently and ruthlessly enforcing the law, simply stops that thing from happening.

You know, like how both alcohol consumption and gang crime fell dramatically in the US between 1920 and 1933.

Oh, wait...

You would think that Americans, of all people, would understand this simple and obvious fact:

The problem is prohibition.

The problems will continue, regardless of how much violence is used against the criminal gangs and/or the users of the illegal substance, until prohibition ends.

The problem is prohibition.

Not Venezuela, Mexico, or Colombia. Not cartels. Not cocaine, or fentanyl, or marijiuana, or ethanol. Not a lack of border control. Not addicts. Not submersibles, submarines, or speedboats. Not light sentences. Not the absence of capital punishment. Not a failure to make addicts suffer enough abuse.

The problem, as empirically demonstrated both in the USA and elsewhere, is prohibition.

If you want the problem to go away, there's a simple answer. It's not military intervention. It's not more police, or harsher penalties. It's not Trumpist authoritarian populism. You just need to end prohibition. Just like with alcohol.

The problem is prohibition.

This is a known fact, demonstrable and scientific. It contradicts most people's gut feelings, and their simpleton beliefs, so it's an unpopular fact; But a fact it remains:

The problem is prohibition.
 
Drug abuse exists with prohibition. It costs us more too. Getting rid of prohibition doesn't make drug abuse issues go away, but if we are going to have abuse regardless, why in the fuck are we spending so much money while still having it?
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Getting rid of prohibition doesn't make drug abuse issues go away
Click to expand...
Well, it might; The evidence suggests that ending prohibition causes a medium to long term decline in total use of a drug (with alcohol in 1933 being the best known test-case).

An end to prohibition removes many barriers to help for addicts. They have less to fear from government agencies who can assist them, they are no longer exposed to unregulated sales pitches from pushers, and they can choose their own rate of weaning themselves off the substance(s) to which they are addicted.

Back-sliding is less likely to lead to a total reversion to full-blown addiction, and even if it does, the opportunity to try again is easier to find, and easier to implement.

Of course, there will still inevitably be addicts. But they will probably be fewer in number, and will certainly have less impact on the rest of society. Addiction is never going away, no matter what.

No sane person thinks that it is possible to eliminate drug abuse by imposing harsh laws and draconian sentences. Sadly, we rarely choose sane people to govern us.
 
The want to blow up little boats many miles away and euthanize homeless addicts here. But they don’t want to do anything about the Sacklers. That tracks.
 
I strongly disagree with Steve. Decriminalization or legalization would be better. Drug addiction is a disease and those who abuse should be treated, not judged or jailed. Portugal didn't solve all of the problems with drugs when they decriminalized them, but there were fewer over doses and more opportunities for rehab.
 
One word: Portugal

Since 2001, Portugal has seen:
• A sharp decline in overdose deaths and HIV infections related to drug use.
• A drop in the proportion of prisoners serving time for drug offenses—from around 40% to about 15%.
• Consistently low drug use rates compared with the EU average.[fordhamilj +1]
Overall, Portugal’s drug laws represent a shift from punitive enforcement to a compassionate, evidence-based public health model focused on rehabilitation and harm reduction rather than incarceration.
Click to expand...

It’s not so much the legalization as the destigmatization.
 
https://drugpolicy.org/wp-content/u...portugal-health-human-centered-approach_0.pdf

Drug Decriminalization in Portugal: Learning from a Health and Human- Centered Approach

Portugal has received global attention for its groundbreaking and comprehensive drug decriminalization program launched in 2001 in response to a public health crisis. In 1999, Portugal had the highest rate of drug-related AIDS in the European Union, the second highest prevalence of HIV among people who inject drugs, and drug overdose deaths were rapidly increasing.

Since Portugal ceased criminalizing drug use, the results have been dramatic.1 The number of people voluntarily entering treatment has increased significantly, while overdose deaths, HIV infections, problematic drug use, and incarceration for drug-related offenses have plummeted. ________________________________________

Drug decriminalization is defined as the elimination of criminal penalties for drug use and possession of drugs for personal use, as well as the elimination of criminal penalties for the possession of equipment used for the purpose of introducing drugs into the human body, such as syringes. ________________________________________

While several other countries have had successful experiences with decriminalization – including the Czech Republic, Spain and the Netherlands – Portugal provides the most comprehensive and well-documented example. The success of Portugal’s policy has opened the door for other countries to rethink the practice of criminalizing people who use drugs. Canada, France, Georgia, Ghana, Ireland and Norway are all currently discussing ways to end criminalization of personal drug use.
Click to expand...

Humans have and will always use and abuse drugs. It doesn't help to criminalize them. In fact, it makes things worse. It puts a huge stain on the prison system and instead of helping addicts, it ruins their lives.
 
https://www.addictionhelp.com/drugs/statistics/most-commonly-used-drugs/

The most abused drug is alcohol and we know how well things went when it was made illegal.

In 2022, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration’s (SAMHSA) 2022 National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH) reported that 70.3 million people aged 12 and older used illicit drugs in the past year, accounting for 24.9% of people in that age group.

When most people think of commonly used drugs in America, many think of opioids or methamphetamines. Although these types of drugs certainly make it into the top 10 list, they don’t explain the whole picture of drug use.

Other substances like alcohol and nicotine actually outnumber the “hard drugs” people often think about. Some of these substances are legal and normalized in our culture.

However, legal or not, many pose risks to our health and safety through side effects and withdrawal.

1. Alcohol​

According to SAMHSA’s 2022 NSDUH report, 221,306,000 (78.5%) people over the age of 12 reported using alcohol in their lifetime, and 176,975,000 (62.8%) people reported using alcohol in 2022.

Alcohol is by far the most widely used substance in the United States. SAMHSA also reports that 28.8 million adults aged 18 and older had an alcohol use disorder in 2021.

View All Alcohol Abuse Statistics
Click to expand...
 
Alcohol is by far the most widely used substance in the United States.
Click to expand...
Wut? I’ll put water up against it any day of the week.
I hate that use of the word “substance”. It is not a synonym for intoxicant or drug.
 
BTW, if paranoia, quick and shallow breathing, dilated pupils, rushed and garbled speech, sudden shouts, and muscle spasms can all be symptoms of substance abuse, WTF is Kash Patel on???
 
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