Daunte Wright shot with Taser. And by "taser," I mean, "Gun."

[blastula]

I do think that Potter's obvious remorse is a huge factor in gaining sympathy for her.

I didn't see any obvious remorse from her, except for feeling sorry for herself that she's on trial. Never saw any clear remorse that a person was killed. She wouldn't even say Wright's name, just called him the driver. Even at scene, the only concern she expressed was about herself going to prison.

 

[Politesse]

We clearly have different ideas about how much jail time is appropriate. I'd put it around a week.

In no state is that the penalty for even negligent homicide a mere week of jail time (and given that Potter certainly knew she was carrying a gun, I'd argue that the more serious crime of involuntary manslaughter would be more appropriate). The legal theory you're suggesting seems downright dangerous to me, what kind of deterrence is a week of jail time for someone in a position to cause an accidental death? You might as well slap them with a glove, or squirt them with a water gun as penance for a killing.

Jesus Christ, I'm arguing in another thread here with conservatives who want petty shoplifters to go to jail for years, but you think a police officer who kills an unarmed person in the line of duty just needs to sleep it off for a few days?

 

[TomC]

Am I just too much of a Scorpio to understand this? Or is it that turning down sobbing people is a part of my daily job and I've just gotten brittle over the years?

Of course, I cannot say for sure. I'm not a mindreader.
But I think it's because you've bought the whole narrative about cops being evil and YBM being innocent victims.

I don't see much culpability on Potter's part. I don't care that she cried on the stand, although it seems a plausible expression of remorse for a small mistake. It's the facts that make Wright the responsible party for the tragedy, far far more than Potter.
Tom

 

[Politesse]

Am I just too much of a Scorpio to understand this? Or is it that turning down sobbing people is a part of my daily job and I've just gotten brittle over the years?

Of course, I cannot say for sure. I'm not a mindreader.
But I think it's because you've bought the whole narrative about cops being evil and YBM being innocent victims.

I don't see much culpability on Potter's part. I don't care that she cried on the stand, although it seems a plausible expression of remorse for a small mistake. It's the facts that make Wright the responsible party for the tragedy, far far more than Potter.
Tom

Definitely not my position.

Except for the innocence part. I do think innocence must be presumed of anyone, Black or White, young or old, until such time as their guilt is proven beyond reasonabke doubt. And that is whh the police are supposed to detain people for sentencing, not execute them in the street, no matter how foul their crimes might be. We have a Constitutional right to a fair trial. The police do not have a similar right to kill people, or even detain them, or even exist. I'm not saying they shouldn't, but if the police are doing something that results in infringement of our rights, Constitutional law should prevail over local exceptionalism. I have no objection to police who follow the law and keep the peace.

 

[Bronzeage]

I do think that Potter's obvious remorse is a huge factor in gaining sympathy for her.

Am I just too much of a Scorpio to understand this? Or is it that turning down sobbing people is a part of my daily job and I've just gotten brittle over the years? But the same is true of anyone who works in a courtroom, surely. I cannot imagine a professional judge changing their mind about a sentencing question because someone cried at them. People who do bad things often feel some level of remorse (or at least know that they are supposed to look like it), but if they're still trying to avoid the consequences of their actions, what good is that remorse? If you really feel bad about a choice you made, you should volunteer to pay the price for your crime and then do whatever you can to make true amends to those who you hurt, not demamd sympathy for yourself (explicitly, rather than for your victims) and beg to be let off.

Remorse is something that occurs after a crime and has no effect on the past. It cannot be taken into account when determining guilt, even though some may claim it shows state of mind during the crime. It's only use is in tempering the punishment for the crime.

 

[Toni]

Apparently Potter had never used either her gun or the taser in the line of duty before.

To recap: according to Potter’s testimony, the trainee made the decision to pull Wright over for the hanging air freshener, something that she would not have done. The expired tags were an infraction that was being ignored very widely —which was policy at the time because COVID was making it difficult for people to get their tags.

Wright was pulled over by an over eager trainee for a minor infraction and killed by an officer who had never before had occasion to use either her gun or taser. Talk about a tragedy of errors.

 

[Gospel]

Your characterization is bullshit.

Hardly. I leave that to you.

What on earth are you on about now?

Mohammed Noor, the Somali Muslim who deliberately murdered innocent woman Justine Dammond had his murder conviction overturned and will be released in less than five years.
Ex-Minneapolis police officer sentenced to 57 months in the killing of a 911 caller

How is what he did any less severe than what say Derek Chauvin did? If anything, Chauvin is less guilty because the killing was accidental and Floyd's poor health and fentanyl overdose contributed to his death. And yet Chauvin will be in prison five times longer. Black Muslim privilege. Especially when AG is a black Muslim with Nation of Islam ties. I smell a coverup!

Wow, I had no idea Somali shot Justine for 8 minutes.

 

[Gospel]

It's a good thing the police found that gun on the scene where he was killed. Right? Right, Derec?

Had a gun been found on him, Potter would not have been on trial. Not even in Keith Ellison's Minnesota.

Very true. This is also true for any black person, even ones without priors and licensed to carry. "Feared for my life" is the get out of jail free card.

 

[TomC]

It's a good thing the police found that gun on the scene where he was killed. Right? Right, Derec?

Had a gun been found on him, Potter would not have been on trial. Not even in Keith Ellison's Minnesota.

Very true. This is also true for any black person, even ones without priors and licensed to carry. "Feared for my life" is the get out of jail free card.

Honestly, I think if race weren't a factor, Potter wouldn't have been charged.

Wright had a history of gun violence and jumped towards the reasonable place for him to have a deadly weapon. The cop had about a second to respond to the possibility that he would come up shooting.

Leaving race out of it. What would you, or any reasonable person, have done under those exact circumstances(without the clarity of hindsight, which we all have now)?
Tom

 

[atrib]

White people in your area get busted for dealing drugs on the street? Where I live, not so much and it's a very, very white place.

Of course white people get busted when they deal drugs in the street. Where do you live anyway? Pleasantville?

I grew up in Stamford, CT, and I knew several white kids in my school who would habitually get caught smoking pot by the police and never even get arrested. It was a running joke in the community. Black kids on the other hand.....

 

[TomC]

White people in your area get busted for dealing drugs on the street? Where I live, not so much and it's a very, very white place.

Of course white people get busted when they deal drugs in the street. Where do you live anyway? Pleasantville?

I grew up in Stamford, CT, and I knew several white kids in my school who would habitually get caught smoking pot by the police and never even get arrested. It was a running joke in the community. Black kids on the other hand.....

When did this happen?
The reason I ask is because all sorts of things used to happen that don't any more. Ugly forms of racism that have gone away through the years. The world I grew up in(late 60s-early 70s USA) doesn't exist any more.

But listening to some people talk, you'd think it was still 1967 or something.
Tom

 

[blastula]

Honestly, I think if race weren't a factor, Potter wouldn't have been charged.

Wright had a history of gun violence and jumped towards the reasonable place for him to have a deadly weapon. The cop had about a second to respond to the possibility that he would come up shooting.

Potter didn't try to tase him because of a possible gun, but because he was going to flee.

 

[TomC]

Honestly, I think if race weren't a factor, Potter wouldn't have been charged.

Wright had a history of gun violence and jumped towards the reasonable place for him to have a deadly weapon. The cop had about a second to respond to the possibility that he would come up shooting.

Potter didn't try to tase him because of a possible gun, but because he was going to flee.

I see no reason to believe that.

It's possible. But I see no reason to think he believed he could flee. Maybe he did. But he wouldn't have gotten a mile down the road, given everything. Maybe he was so methed he thought he could escape by car. I dunno. I find that implausible, but I know that people on drugs make remarkably bad, sometimes fatal, choices.

Otherwise, I don't know why Wright would have made the choice that left him dead and Potter a mess and a community disaster.
Tom

 

[blastula]

I see no reason to believe that.

It's possible. But I see no reason to think he believed he could flee.

Then you don't know the facts of the case.

 

[TomC]

I see no reason to believe that.

It's possible. But I see no reason to think he believed he could flee.

Then you don't know the facts of the case.

I don't think you do either.
Tom

 

[blastula]

Based on?

 

[TomC]

Based on?

The part of my post that you snipped out and ignored.

Tom

 

[Toni]

I don’t know if I agree about that. This is based on an incident that happened some years back in my town when a white police officer shot and killed a young man who was standing on a bridge over a small stream, holding what the officer assumed to be a gun but, as it turned out, was a small pocket knife. The officers were all well beyond any possible throwing distance. The officer made a split second decision and a young man died. The family of young man who died had called the police because they were concerned about his mental health and he was in crisis. He had no firearms nor access to any in his family home—which information was provided the police. The officer faced no charges. Everyone in this story is white and in fact the officer and the young man who was killed went to school with each other—and one of my kids.

White people in your area get busted for dealing drugs on the street? Where I live, not so much and it's a very, very white place.

Of course white people get busted when they deal drugs in the street. Where do you live anyway? Pleasantville?

I grew up in Stamford, CT, and I knew several white kids in my school who would habitually get caught smoking pot by the police and never even get arrested. It was a running joke in the community. Black kids on the other hand.....

When did this happen?
The reason I ask is because all sorts of things used to happen that don't any more. Ugly forms of racism that have gone away through the years. The world I grew up in(late 60s-early 70s USA) doesn't exist any more.

But listening to some people talk, you'd think it was still 1967 or something.
Tom

Sure: https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdva/p...-front-yard-african-american-family-june-2020

I live in a college town, which tends to lean more liberal than non-college towns. My state is liberal-ish but only in major metropolitan areas. A few years ago, some neighbors (a couple of blocks apart, one house adjacent to mine) at multiple addresses had new sidewalks installed. There are swastikas carved into the new pours--not done by the neighbors but also not removed by the neighbors....

I remember explaining to a newer faculty member that the big lighted cross that was hanging from a hillside overlooking the town was in honor of the Christmas season and not the KKK because, well, he is Jewish and was new in town and there are not very many Jewish people in town so the question was natural. For certain, in my town you are much more likely to be pulled over or followed through a store if your skin tone is not pretty pale.

It's easier to not see such overt racism as perhaps you and I did when we were kids. Not too many KKK marches, but there are still some, especially during Trump's reign.

Or just read these threads and notice how many people talk about certain neighborhoods being 'bad.' Or voting rights. My dad's widow's grand daughter is (supposedly) engaged to the father of her 4 youngest children and he's a light skinned black man. My dad's widow really really struggles with being at family gatherings with that particular granddaughter. There are definitely favorites among her grandchildren and they are all white. Personally, I see/know plenty of people who cannot speak enough about their admiration for Somali immigrants--and who sneer down their noses at black people who are descended from slaves. I know they really really do not see the difference in how they speak of and treat black people whose grandparents were likely born here.

I really wish that racism had largely disappeared but it hasn't. It's not as overt in the sense that most politicians are not building careers based on racist attitudes. There are no segregated water fountains or movie theaters and no more back of the bus. But it's still pretty ugly and it's still pretty prevalent.

 

[laughing dog]

Your characterization is bullshit.

Hardly. I leave that to you.

A "no u r" riposte - boring, irrelevant and stupid.

What on earth are you on about now?

Mohammed Noor, the Somali Muslim who deliberately murdered innocent woman Justine Dammond had his murder conviction overturned and will be released in less than five years.
Ex-Minneapolis police officer sentenced to 57 months in the killing of a 911 caller

How is what he did any less severe than what say Derek Chauvin did? If anything, Chauvin is less guilty because the killing was accidental and Floyd's poor health and fentanyl overdose contributed to his death. And yet Chauvin will be in prison five times longer. Black Muslim privilege. Especially when AG is a black Muslim with Nation of Islam ties. I smell a coverup!

Ah, a "whataboutism" based on race and your "truthiness" version of the facts.

Mr. Noor was originally sentenced to 12.5 years. The sentence was reduced to a ruling by the Mn Supreme Court (Mn Supreme Court throws out Mohammed Noor's 3rd degree murder conviction ).

The stench you smell is your own bias.

 

[atrib]

White people in your area get busted for dealing drugs on the street? Where I live, not so much and it's a very, very white place.

Of course white people get busted when they deal drugs in the street. Where do you live anyway? Pleasantville?

I grew up in Stamford, CT, and I knew several white kids in my school who would habitually get caught smoking pot by the police and never even get arrested. It was a running joke in the community. Black kids on the other hand.....

When did this happen?

In the mid-80's when I was in high school.

The reason I ask is because all sorts of things used to happen that don't any more. Ugly forms of racism that have gone away through the years. The world I grew up in(late 60s-early 70s USA) doesn't exist any more.

You're wrong. I have been the victim of racist attacks several times over the past 30 years (I'm brown and married to a white woman living in the South), and I have witnessed overt, ugly racism with my own eyes. I have seen how police treat poor black people, and I have stepped in on a couple of occasions and been threatened with arrest. The police won't arrest an educated man dressed in a suit, because they understand there will be repercussions, but that doesn't stop them from harassing people who don't know their rights. Racism is alive and well in America.

But listening to some people talk, you'd think it was still 1967 or something.
Tom

It is hidden under a thin veneer of civility amongst the well-heeled, and flaunted openly by others. Over 75 million people voted for Trump in the last election, knowing fully well what he was. That should tell you something.