Defunding the Police?

[Trausti]

We should make being a police officer so onerous and shameful that no one would want to be a cop. Then we can get back to the good o’l days of self-help and blood feuds. And no need to pay taxes anymore, ‘cause who’s gonna enforce that?

If that's how you see accountability measures then I guess that's how you see them. I will just continue to treat cops as the enemy of the people until there are some accountability measures with teeth enacted.

You hate cops, we get that. And you presume all cops are bad, we get that.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

We should make being a police officer so onerous and shameful that no one would want to be a cop. Then we can get back to the good o’l days of self-help and blood feuds. And no need to pay taxes anymore, ‘cause who’s gonna enforce that?

If that's how you see accountability measures then I guess that's how you see them. I will just continue to treat cops as the enemy of the people until there are some accountability measures with teeth enacted.

You hate cops, we get that. And you presume all cops are bad, we get that.

All cops are bad because they have no choice in the matter. The thin blue line prevents them from being good just as much as it makes them all bad.

 

[steve_bank]

Defund means change to community based policing instead of roving police cars looking for bad guys. There have been several media reports of Newark NJ which restructured and made a drastic reduction in murder and crime.

Police integrating in the community instead of responding to calls as an armed intrusive enforcer.

Some protesters in Seattle demand complete elimination of police and jail. Offenders to be dealt with by the community, without specifics. Rehabilitated by the community.

Seattle is reducing the scope of police responsibility. No more dealing with homeless, mentally ill, and domestic problems unless it gets out of hand. That makes sense. Searle has a small group of trained people to respond and that will be expanded.

You are aware that with community policing you could end up with a lynch mob mentality?

Not as being discussed. Police are still police. The difference is community involvement. I got the city wrong, it was not Newark. Police were assigned neighborhoods. Poloce got to know people. People start to trust and provided more feedback on crime. Crime and murder went down.

SWAT I believe originated in LA in the 60s as a response to social unrest. Racial and otherwise.

Policing does need fundamental change. Few in law enforcement say otherwise. Stopped for Driving While Black is a reality.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

It was Camden, not Newark

 

[Derec]

It was Camden, not Newark

The Camden reforms instituted by Christie did a lot of good, but are not generally liked by anti-police activists.

 

[Derec]

Would think depolicing and replacement by social workers would lead to many injured and dead social workers.

But far fewer dead innocent civilians. The trolley problem is hard.

BS. By far the most "innocent civilians" are killed by other civilians. There are ~18k-20k homicides in the US, and only ~1k are by police. Vast majority of those are justified (i.e. are not of "innocent civilians") and most involve armed perps.

 

[laughing dog]

Would think depolicing and replacement by social workers would lead to many injured and dead social workers.

But far fewer dead innocent civilians. The trolley problem is hard.

BS. By far the most "innocent civilians" are killed by other civilians. There are ~18k-20k homicides in the US, and only ~1k are by police. Vast majority of those are justified (i.e. are not of "innocent civilians") and most involve armed perps.

Your "whataboutis" is truly a smokescreen. The issue is the state sanctioned (tacitly or overtly) brutality and killing of civilians. The police are employees of the citizenry.

 

[steve_bank]

It was Camden, not Newark

The Camden reforms instituted by Christie did a lot of good, but are not generally liked by anti-police activists.

I heard it said today you can not negotiate or please a mob. They do not want to give up being a mob. It is happening here in Seattle. Demands from a number of protestors keep shifting and growing.

The violence and crime that went on in the 'autonomous zone' was vigilante mob rule. Which is what you obviously get without structured law enforcement.

 

[Harry Bosch]

You hate cops, we get that. And you presume all cops are bad, we get that.

All cops are bad because they have no choice in the matter. The thin blue line prevents them from being good just as much as it makes them all bad.

Yea, that's balony. The vast majority of cops are good and do their job the best that they can. The majority of police malfeasance is the result of poor training. In my local district, the average policeman gets 4 hours of self defense training per year. Per year. My 13-year gets three times that per year. Having said that, yes we need dramatic reforms (far more training).

 

[steve_bank]

Cops deal with the worse of society day in and day out, and they wear a uniform that paints a target on their backs.

They are a convenient whipping post for people and politics.

An old saying, there is never a cop around when you need one. Meaning you rag on the cops until you call for help.

 

[Derec]

Defund means change to community based policing instead of roving police cars looking for bad guys.

"Defund" means "to withdraw funding from". The word you are looking for is "reform".
If your buzz word/picket sign/hashtag has to be explained because the actual meaning of the word is very different, maybe you need to rethink your choice of words.
I think that the original "defund the police" activists meant it quite literally, and people like you are trying to salvage the slogan by redefining it.

There have been several media reports of Newark NJ which restructured and made a drastic reduction in murder and crime.

I think you mean Camden, and while they also instituted community policing the county (as opposed to disbanded city)

Police integrating in the community instead of responding to calls as an armed intrusive enforcer.

I think it's good to integrate police in the community, but often they have to be "armed intrusive enforcers". In Camden too.

Some protesters in Seattle demand complete elimination of police and jail. Offenders to be dealt with by the community, without specifics. Rehabilitated by the community.

Insane.

Seattle is reducing the scope of police responsibility.

No kidding. Like no arresting people blocking I5 for weeks.

No more dealing with homeless, mentally ill, and domestic problems unless it gets out of hand. That makes sense. Searle has a small group of trained people to respond and that will be expanded.

And what happens the first time one of these social workers is attacked and harmed by a crazy bum domestic abuser when they have to deal with them without police backup?

 

[steve_bank]

There is the Wester dictionary definition, there is how it is commonly used in normal conversation, and there is how it is being used in regard to the protests.

Depending on who is speaking it can mean completely taking away funds for police to be replaced by some unspecified community based system. In another context it can mean reducing funds for military style weapons armored cars or reducing the scope of police and transferring money to other programs.

Here in Seattle the talk is taking homeless, drug emergency response, and domestic responses away from police.

If you listen to people speaking on the news enough one realizes good English and grammar is not a consideration. You have to learn to interpret in the context of who is speaking. For example Trump.

 

[Harry Bosch]

There is the Wester dictionary definition, there is how it is commonly used in normal conversation, and there is how it is being used in regard to the protests.

Depending on who is speaking it can mean completely taking away funds for police to be replaced by some unspecified community based system. In another context it can mean reducing funds for military style weapons armored cars or reducing the scope of police and transferring money to other programs.

Here in Seattle the talk is taking homeless, drug emergency response, and domestic responses away from police.

If you listen to people speaking on the news enough one realizes good English and grammar is not a consideration. You have to learn to interpret in the context of who is speaking. For example Trump.

Take domestic responses away from the police? 40% of all officer deaths were caused by them responding to domestic responses.

 

[steve_bank]

There is the Wester dictionary definition, there is how it is commonly used in normal conversation, and there is how it is being used in regard to the protests.

Depending on who is speaking it can mean completely taking away funds for police to be replaced by some unspecified community based system. In another context it can mean reducing funds for military style weapons armored cars or reducing the scope of police and transferring money to other programs.

Here in Seattle the talk is taking homeless, drug emergency response, and domestic responses away from police.

If you listen to people speaking on the news enough one realizes good English and grammar is not a consideration. You have to learn to interpret in the context of who is speaking. For example Trump.

Take domestic responses away from the police? 40% of all officer deaths were caused by them responding to domestic responses.

There is a small trained mental health group in Seattle that reponds to domestic situraions without police. If needed they walk away and call for help. A member was interview on a local station.

The idea is that an armed officer entering the situation to begin with automatically escalates the situation.

On this local police are in agreement. They want to shed what amounts to social work. They are not trained for it.

 

[Harry Bosch]

There is the Wester dictionary definition, there is how it is commonly used in normal conversation, and there is how it is being used in regard to the protests.

Depending on who is speaking it can mean completely taking away funds for police to be replaced by some unspecified community based system. In another context it can mean reducing funds for military style weapons armored cars or reducing the scope of police and transferring money to other programs.

Here in Seattle the talk is taking homeless, drug emergency response, and domestic responses away from police.

If you listen to people speaking on the news enough one realizes good English and grammar is not a consideration. You have to learn to interpret in the context of who is speaking. For example Trump.

Take domestic responses away from the police? 40% of all officer deaths were caused by them responding to domestic responses.

There is a small trained mental health group in Seattle that reponds to domestic situraions without police. If needed they walk away and call for help. A member was interview on a local station.

The idea is that an armed officer entering the situation to begin with automatically escalates the situation.

On this local police are in agreement. They want to shed what amounts to social work. They are not trained for it.

Well, I know that time is critical to defusing domestic abuse. I'm open to studies if links are available. I suspect that not many mental health people are going to want to get involved in potentially dangerous situations until the situation is defused.

Here's another scenario:

https://www.kezi.com/content/news/S...g-Black-family-on-Oregon-beach-571652131.html

Bunch of Nazi thugs harassing a black family. Luckily the police defused the situation and threw the thugs in jail.

 

[lpetrich]

On this local police are in agreement. They want to shed what amounts to social work. They are not trained for it.

It's good that there is a form of "defunding" that the cops themselves can agree with.

 

[Trausti]

There is a small trained mental health group in Seattle that reponds to domestic situraions without police. If needed they walk away and call for help. A member was interview on a local station.

The idea is that an armed officer entering the situation to begin with automatically escalates the situation.

On this local police are in agreement. They want to shed what amounts to social work. They are not trained for it.

Well, I know that time is critical to defusing domestic abuse. I'm open to studies if links are available. I suspect that not many mental health people are going to want to get involved in potentially dangerous situations until the situation is defused.

Here's another scenario:

https://www.kezi.com/content/news/S...g-Black-family-on-Oregon-beach-571652131.html

Bunch of Nazi thugs harassing a black family. Luckily the police defused the situation and threw the thugs in jail.

Nazi thugs, or a bunch of drunk Russians?

 

[Trausti]

Defund the police!

 

[angelo]

We should make being a police officer so onerous and shameful that no one would want to be a cop. Then we can get back to the good o’l days of self-help and blood feuds. And no need to pay taxes anymore, ‘cause who’s gonna enforce that?

If that's how you see accountability measures then I guess that's how you see them. I will just continue to treat cops as the enemy of the people until there are some accountability measures with teeth enacted.

Methinks that 99% of people who don't commit any crimes and or are lawful have nothing to fear from cops. On the other hand, crooks and unlawful people have much to fear from cops, and they're the ones who are shouting the loudest about defunding police forces.

 

[Harry Bosch]

There is a small trained mental health group in Seattle that reponds to domestic situraions without police. If needed they walk away and call for help. A member was interview on a local station.

The idea is that an armed officer entering the situation to begin with automatically escalates the situation.

On this local police are in agreement. They want to shed what amounts to social work. They are not trained for it.

Well, I know that time is critical to defusing domestic abuse. I'm open to studies if links are available. I suspect that not many mental health people are going to want to get involved in potentially dangerous situations until the situation is defused.

Here's another scenario:

https://www.kezi.com/content/news/S...g-Black-family-on-Oregon-beach-571652131.html

Bunch of Nazi thugs harassing a black family. Luckily the police defused the situation and threw the thugs in jail.

Nazi thugs, or a bunch of drunk Russians?

They were bad dudes. Another story from a different angle:

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/lo...oast/283-fce89802-6ba8-408e-a5da-a7fa7489176d

My point is that I don't want fuckers like these guys in the public where I am or where anyone else. But you can't detain guys like this with social workers.