Just imagine if this was an Iranian drone strike on a Western nation

[PyramidHead]

U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

“U.S. forces conducted a drone strike against Da’esh (IS) terrorists in Nangarhar,” said Colonel Sonny Leggett, a spokesman for U.S. forces in Afghanistan. “We are aware of allegations of the death of non-combatants and are working with local officials to determine the facts.”

About 14,000 U.S. troops are in Afghanistan, training and advising Afghan security forces and conducting counter-insurgency operations against IS and the Taliban movement.

Haidar Khan, who owns the pine nut fields, said about 150 workers were there for harvesting, with some still missing as well as the confirmed dead and injured.

A survivor of the drone strike said about 200 laborers were sleeping in five tents pitched near the farm when the attack happened.

The article also includes this graphic:

 

[Tom Sawyer]

To answer the caption's question, yes, you are the bad guys.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

To answer the caption's question, yes, you are the bad guys.

That isn't fair. We are good guys that are doing a very poor job at being good. Just think of it like the US is *Jessica Jones reference*

Show

Trish Walker

. Ultimately, us leaving also makes things worse as the Taliban will regain control quickly and lots of women will suffer tremendously. Of course, killing thousands of civilians... not helping the cause either.

Sadly the the W Administration took the US past a point of no return. Where there might have been a chance at success, the Neocons got bored of Afghanistan quickly because they really wanted to go into Iraq. Kind of like when someone uses a less attractive sister to get with her hot sibling.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

To answer the caption's question, yes, you are the bad guys.

That isn't fair. We are good guys that are doing a very poor job at being good.

I think it's very fair. You constantly murder large groups of civilians in pursuit of some nebulous goal that not even you can properly define and, after eighteen years of trying, all that mass murder hasn't brought you anything except increased revenue for defense contractors. Your only reason for continuing to do it at this point is because you value not looking weak more than you value the lives of innocents.

That's not doing a poor job of being good anymore than Jeffrey Dahmer simply did a poor job of trying to add more meat to his diet. It's being fucking evil.

 

[Jarhyn]

To answer the caption's question, yes, you are the bad guys.

That isn't fair. We are good guys that are doing a very poor job at being good.

I think it's very fair. You constantly murder large groups of civilians in pursuit of some nebulous goal that not even you can properly define and, after eighteen years of trying, all that mass murder hasn't brought you anything except increased revenue for defense contractors. Your only reason for continuing to do it at this point is because you value not looking weak more than you value the lives of innocents.

That's not doing a poor job of being good anymore than Jeffrey Dahmer simply did a poor job of trying to add more meat to his diet. It's being fucking evil.

Well, more, we have a common name to refer to someone who is bad at being good: evil.

Nobody generally sees a villain in the mirror. Villain is a label earned and given, not decided upon and taken.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

To answer the caption's question, yes, you are the bad guys.

That isn't fair. We are good guys that are doing a very poor job at being good.

I think it's very fair. You constantly murder large groups of civilians...

Not true... usually it is a dozen or three or four dozen tops each incident. We just have a high number of incidents. [/sarcasm]

...in pursuit of some nebulous goal that not even you can properly define and, after eighteen years of trying, all that mass murder hasn't brought you anything except increased revenue for defense contractors. Your only reason for continuing to do it at this point is because you value not looking weak more than you value the lives of innocents.

I think in general, we are still there because if we leave, the Taliban move back in and no one wins with that.

That's not doing a poor job of being good anymore than Jeffrey Dahmer simply did a poor job of trying to add more meat to his diet. It's being fucking evil.

No, being fucking evil would be nuking Afghanistan. Being pathetic would be making a "peace deal" with the Taliban. The US has no good option in Afghanistan. US forces accidentally kill dozens while the Taliban intentionally kills hundreds. No good comes from any of it.

The US will most certainly not defeat the Taliban. Should the US let the Taliban take the nation over again?

 

[PyramidHead]

I think it's very fair. You constantly murder large groups of civilians...

Not true... usually it is a dozen or three or four dozen tops each incident. We just have a high number of incidents. [/sarcasm]

...in pursuit of some nebulous goal that not even you can properly define and, after eighteen years of trying, all that mass murder hasn't brought you anything except increased revenue for defense contractors. Your only reason for continuing to do it at this point is because you value not looking weak more than you value the lives of innocents.

I think in general, we are still there because if we leave, the Taliban move back in and no one wins with that.

That's not doing a poor job of being good anymore than Jeffrey Dahmer simply did a poor job of trying to add more meat to his diet. It's being fucking evil.

No, being fucking evil would be nuking Afghanistan. Being pathetic would be making a "peace deal" with the Taliban. The US has no good option in Afghanistan. US forces accidentally kill dozens while the Taliban intentionally kills hundreds. No good comes from any of it.

The US will most certainly not defeat the Taliban. Should the US let the Taliban take the nation over again?

Whether or not the Taliban are in power in Afghanistan is not the entirety of the situation in Afghanistan. We have the resources to strike at the root causes of terrorism: poverty, unemployment, hunger, ignorance and disease. But this cannot happen because the country is at the nexus of imperialism due to its oil resources, and this is the real reason we remain there.

 

[Derec]

To answer the caption's question, yes, you are the bad guys.

Who is the "you" you are referring to? Because that's not a US uniform but a German one.


And to answer Mitchell's question, the uniform has a Totenkopf because it was a Prussian/German military tradition, going back to Frederick the Great (Friedrich der Grosse) in the 18th century.
Even Prussian princesses wore it.

(she was an honorary colonel of a Hussar regiment)

 

[Derec]

U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

Mistakes happen in war. They can't be completely avoided. But there is a fundamental difference in targeting a military target and hitting civilians by mistake and targeting a civilian target, like Iran did when it attacked Saudi civilian oil infrastructure.
Or like Iranian controlled Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Houthis do on a regular basis when they target civilians in terrorist attacks.

 

[Derec]

Ultimately, us leaving also makes things worse as the Taliban will regain control quickly and lots of women will suffer tremendously.

Indeed. But as long as they can claim victories against the scourge of ring girls and bikini ads in the tube, you won't find much outrage from most Western feminists. They will be too busy trying on hijabs at the Women's March.

Of course, killing thousands of civilians... not helping the cause either.

By the way, how do we know all of those people in the OP graphic were actually civilians? What methodology did they use?

Sadly the the W Administration took the US past a point of no return. Where there might have been a chance at success, the Neocons got bored of Afghanistan quickly because they really wanted to go into Iraq. Kind of like when someone uses a less attractive sister to get with her hot sibling.

The problem is also that 98% of Afghans are radical Islamists who believe in things like Sharia law. So groups like Taliban and ISIS find a lot of support and only times Afghanistan looks halfway civilized is when an outside power (US, Soviets, British, ..., Alexander the Great) controls it.

 

[Derec]

Well, more, we have a common name to refer to someone who is bad at being good: evil.

Evil requires intent. Like Taliban and ISIS intentionally suicide bombing civilian targets.
Taliban suicide attacks in Afghanistan leave dozens dead
Afghanistan: Bomb kills 63 at wedding in Kabul

Mistakes happen, and they are by themselves not evil.

Nobody generally sees a villain in the mirror. Villain is a label earned and given, not decided upon and taken.

Yes, Taliban, ISIS or Iranian theocrats all likely think they are the good guys. So what? That doesn't mean they are not qualitatively different than US.

 

[Jarhyn]

Well, more, we have a common name to refer to someone who is bad at being good: evil.

Evil requires intent. Like Taliban and ISIS intentionally suicide bombing civilian targets.
Taliban suicide attacks in Afghanistan leave dozens dead
Afghanistan: Bomb kills 63 at wedding in Kabul

Mistakes happen, and they are by themselves not evil.

Nobody generally sees a villain in the mirror. Villain is a label earned and given, not decided upon and taken.

Yes, Taliban, ISIS or Iranian theocrats all likely think they are the good guys. So what? That doesn't mean they are not qualitatively different than US.

The appearance of impropriety is sufficient for a judgement of impropriety in most ethical situations. The fact is, a shitton of farmers got murdered. It doesn't matter if it was bad Intel or a bad decision or an act of desperation by a flailing idiot. It's an ethical failing to deploy a weapon in a situation where the situation hasn't been researched.

And everyone has an obligation, if they wish to have others accept them as they see themselves, to look in the mirror and ask hard and long "AM I the villain?"

The fact that you are looking in the proverbial mirror and saying "There's certainly no villain there!" that's exactly the way a villain lives.

 

[Derec]

Whether or not the Taliban are in power in Afghanistan is not the entirety of the situation in Afghanistan. We have the resources to strike at the root causes of terrorism: poverty, unemployment, hunger, ignorance and disease.

Those are not the root causes of terrorism. Most terrorists are not poor, or uneducated. Bin Laden was the scion of one of the richest families in Saudi Arabia - the family which advertised on Williams F1 cars in the 70s and is building the tallest skyscraper in the world today. The root cause is Islamism, which is endemic in Afghanistan.

But this cannot happen because the country is at the nexus of imperialism due to its oil resources, and this is the real reason we remain there.

What oil resources?
View attachment 23938

 

[laughing dog]

The problem is also that 98% of Afghans are radical Islamists who believe in things like Sharia law.

How do we know 98% of Afghans are radical Islamists? What methodology was used?

 

[Derec]

How do we know 98% of Afghans are radical Islamists? What methodology was used?

I base it on the Pew Study of Muslim beliefs.
For example, support for Sharia Law:

 

[laughing dog]

How do we know 98% of Afghans are radical Islamists? What methodology was used?

I base it on the Pew Study of Muslim beliefs.
For example, support for Sharia Law:
View attachment 23939

You falsely equate “support for Islamic law” with “radical Islam”, because there is not widespread agreement among Moslems about what Islamic law entails.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I'm astonished that people like Derec who are fighting for America in Afghanistan have the time to engage in internet chats. I would think they'd be too busy pursuing their goal of saving Afghanistan for America. My hat goes off to these glorious warriors. Thank-you for your gallant service! God's speed, my friend!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Whether or not the Taliban are in power in Afghanistan is not the entirety of the situation in Afghanistan. We have the resources to strike at the root causes of terrorism: poverty, unemployment, hunger, ignorance and disease. But this cannot happen because the country is at the nexus of imperialism due to its oil resources, and this is the real reason we remain there.

No. The left likes to pretend that these are the causes of terrorism but when you look at the world the areas where these are greatest generally do not have much terrorism.

Terrorism at more than the isolate incident level requires Islamists trying to seize power or occasionally leftists trying to seize power. The thing is terrorism requires substantial outside funding. These days this mostly comes from Muslim governments and rich Muslims. We have a few leftists who get their funding from controlling resources in the area they are trying to control (mostly this is drugs.) There used to be a lot more leftist terrorism but Moscow pretty much quit funding it and now there isn't much of it left.

Note, also, that your infographic is deceptive. It counts deaths and injuries, not who caused them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Evil requires intent. Like Taliban and ISIS intentionally suicide bombing civilian targets.

Disagree--recklessness can be evil.

Note, also, that we don't know if this was actually bad targeting or not. It is routine for the Islamists to use innocents as cover for their actions.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I think it's very fair. You constantly murder large groups of civilians...

Not true... usually it is a dozen or three or four dozen tops each incident. We just have a high number of incidents. [/sarcasm]

...in pursuit of some nebulous goal that not even you can properly define and, after eighteen years of trying, all that mass murder hasn't brought you anything except increased revenue for defense contractors. Your only reason for continuing to do it at this point is because you value not looking weak more than you value the lives of innocents.

I think in general, we are still there because if we leave, the Taliban move back in and no one wins with that.

That's not doing a poor job of being good anymore than Jeffrey Dahmer simply did a poor job of trying to add more meat to his diet. It's being fucking evil.

No, being fucking evil would be nuking Afghanistan. Being pathetic would be making a "peace deal" with the Taliban. The US has no good option in Afghanistan. US forces accidentally kill dozens while the Taliban intentionally kills hundreds. No good comes from any of it.

The US will most certainly not defeat the Taliban. Should the US let the Taliban take the nation over again?

I agree with you Jimmy. We have no good option. If we completely pull out: thousands of civilians will die. Women will lose their hard earned rights. Little girls will go back to being baby factories. If the world allows this happen, the world is evil.