Disaster for Ukraine. Rebels route Ukrainian forces at Donetsk

[Togo]

It's useful to have threads like this, as a reference. If anyone ever asks me who is arguing that Russia is in the right, we now have something to show them. I think the quality of the posts here really speak for themselves.

 

[Sabine Grant]

Non. I am actually good at documenting my point,

What you are good at is comparing apples with oranges. All the rest is fluff.

Care to present a rationally constructed argument demonstrating that the Russian military stationed in Crimea did not violate article 6 of the Treaty of Partition? Or are you and Barbos going to persist in emitting claims which do not address that point? As to quote mining (as you just did), it usually reflects the intent to dismiss context.

So far, neither you nor Barbos have acknowledged the content of the Partition Treaty. Not even made the effort to reflect on the content of that pesky Article 6.I stand by my statement that the activities of the Russian military stationed in Crimea ,under the specific conditions cited in the Partition Treaty, those activities were in violation of Article 6.

 

[thief of fire]

It's useful to have threads like this, as a reference. If anyone ever asks me who is arguing that Russia is in the right,

Are you expecting that to happen?

we now have something to show them.

Yes..point them to an amateur internet forum. Or maybe point them to David Cameron, or John Kerry.
Not many people have died in Crimea, but plenty have in Ukraine. Well done.

You should be focusing on all the innocent people your country has killed in recent years, rather than getting so upset about your supposed invasion in Crimea where we don't have that bloodshed.

 

[thief of fire]

What you are good at is comparing apples with oranges. All the rest is fluff.

Care to present a rationally constructed argument demonstrating that the Russian military stationed in Crimea did not violate article 6 of the Treaty of Partition? .

Go back and read my posts, and you will see why you are comparing apples and oranges..It has nothing to do with article 6. But hey..feel free to keep bringing that up and ignoring what I said.

 

[thief of fire]

Your buddy Putin has thrown all that out the window. Putin, for lack of a better term, has become the public face of Russia, and that public face is a country that says "we don't give a fuck one way or another what the international community thinks about us. We're going to conquer as much territory as we can and screw everyone else."

If that were true Russia would have stayed in Georgia. In other words the evidence doesn't support your view.

Yeah. I care about despots who don't give a fuck about borders.

Well why not do something about your own tax dollars financing illegal wars.

 

[thief of fire]

So glad to have you 'mericans fighting for freedumb all over the world.

Maybe you should move to Russia?

Not a chance. But Russia is moving in the right direction, albeit with some backsliding and unevenness.
Russia is not the one starting wars around the globe and threatening peace around the world.
Russia hasn't even been rating while the USA, despite being the preferred place to live consistently tops the poll.
http://www.wingia.com/en/services/about_the_end_of_year_survey/global_results/7/33/

People around the globe are frightened of the USA. Here is a protest from Syria a couple of days ago.

Here in contrast is what the "pro Russian" separatists did to captured soldiers in eastern Ukraine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us9lPiQ9btA&list=UUdnB82ob_V7EXwwcCtB1vUg

 

[Sabine Grant]

Care to present a rationally constructed argument demonstrating that the Russian military stationed in Crimea did not violate article 6 of the Treaty of Partition? .

Go back and read my posts, and you will see why you are comparing apples and oranges..It has nothing to do with article 6. But hey..feel free to keep bringing that up and ignoring what I said.

Since you keep failing to connect :

1) The standards applied to any nation given an allowance to have a contingent of its military stationed( it is possible you do not understand what "stationed" means) in another nation

and

2) The Article 6 which undeniably reflects an allowance under specific conditions given to Russia by Ukraine regarding Russian military elements and material stationed in Crimea,

it is your responsibility to somehow improve your level of comprehension of the above. Rather than emitting (once more) replies which fail to understand the connection between reasoning number 1 and reasoning number 2.

It really should not be that difficult. What should also not be that difficult is to pay attention to the content of Article 6 and formulate an opinion as to whether Russia violated the terms and conditions clearly stated in the said article. So far, neither you nor barbos have addressed it.

 

[thief of fire]

Go back and read my posts, and you will see why you are comparing apples and oranges..It has nothing to do with article 6. But hey..feel free to keep bringing that up and ignoring what I said.

Since you keep failing to connect :

You need to take responsibility for the failure to connect and stop shifting the blame. I have told you why the situations are different. All you do is keep pointing to the similarities and avoiding the differences.
What you are doing is essentially saying "oranges and apples are both round...oranges and apples both have seeds, therefore they are the same".
I'm saying oranges and apples may have similarities but that doesn't make them the same fruit.

 

[Ford]

Maybe you should move to Russia?

Not a chance. But Russia is moving in the right direction, albeit with some backsliding and unevenness.

Having a President for life is the right direction? Throwing people who dare to protest against that President into prison is the right direction? Increasing censorship of independent media and increasing levels of official government propaganda is the right direction?


Are we even talking about the same country here? Oh, wait...you don't want to talk about Russia...you'd prefer to change the subject.

Russia is not the one starting wars around the globe and threatening peace around the world.

Ah, so you figure local wars are no big problem. Waltzing into neighboring countries to "support democracy" isn't a big deal. Annexing territory by force is okay with you because the big bad USA is bombing Iraq again. Nope, let's not talk about Russia's slide back away from democracy or anything they've done recently...let's change the subject!


But then you bring up Syria. Interesting, indeed. Sainted Mother Russia (the country you love but wouldn't want to live anywhere near) is a great example of world peace and democracy when compared with the evil USA, but it it weren't for Putin's stalwart support of the murderous Assad, Syria would be a very different place today and a whole lot of people might still be alive.

Russia (not threatening peace at all) blocked any meaningful diplomatic efforts to dislodge the brutal Syrian regime and has happily continued to arm them, as allies are often wont to do.

Posting a video of Ukrainian soldiers being treated nicely is all well and good, but I gather the tens of thousands of Syrians who met an untimely demise at the business end of Russian military hardware sort of balances that out.

Assad said to Putin, in effect "hey I've got a rebellion on my hands here" and Vlad said "no problem, here's some cool weapons, have at it, buddy."


But you don't want to talk about that, do you?

 

[barbos]

Speaking of European monarchies and wars:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrice_Lumumba#Belgian_Involvement
In 50 years EU will be apologizing for mess they organized in Ukraine.

 

[barbos]

What you are good at is comparing apples with oranges. All the rest is fluff.

Care to present a rationally constructed argument demonstrating that the Russian military stationed in Crimea did not violate article 6 of the Treaty of Partition? Or are you and Barbos going to persist in emitting claims which do not address that point? As to quote mining (as you just did), it usually reflects the intent to dismiss context.

Why don't you go first and find these WMD in Iraq.

 

[Ford]

Care to present a rationally constructed argument demonstrating that the Russian military stationed in Crimea did not violate article 6 of the Treaty of Partition?

My Russian is a bit rusty, but I think the answer you just got is "nyet."

 

[barbos]

Not a chance. But Russia is moving in the right direction, albeit with some backsliding and unevenness.

Having a President for life is the right direction?

You have to blame yourself for that. If you had not organized that little War in Georgia then Medvedev would probably be still a president.

Throwing people who dare to protest against that President into prison is the right direction?

Not president, police, and not protest but attack with deadly force.
Go and try to do the same in US.

 

[Ford]

Having a President for life is the right direction?

You have to blame yourself for that. If you had not organized that little War in Georgia then Medvedev would probably be still a president.

Ah yes, the war that the US started in Georgia. I remember it well. All those US troops sent over to Georgia. All the planes and tanks. And who could forget when the US raised their own flag?

Of course poor, poor Medvedev. Remember when he came out with that book where he blamed the US led war in Georgia for him losing the Presidency? Heady stuff indeed.

And then there was brave Putin. Brave, often shirtless Putin who - despite his expressed desire to never, ever run Russia again, gave in to the overwhelming will of the Russian people and oh so reluctantly returned to the Kremlin. So selfless. So manly. You can almost smell the musk!

Not president, police, and not protest but attack with deadly force.
Go and try to do the same in US.

Ah yes, the deadly attack on the police by Pussy Riot. I believe one of those little girls killed several police officers with her guitar. Punk as fuck, and certainly they all deserved jail time for all the murders they committed.

 

[barbos]

Within twelve weeks, Lumumba's government was deposed in a coup during the Congo Crisis. The main reason why he was ousted from power was his opposition to Belgian-backed secession of the mineral-rich Katanga province

Good job EU!

 

[thief of fire]

Russia is not the one starting wars around the globe and threatening peace around the world.

Ah, so you figure local wars are no big problem. Waltzing into neighboring countries to "support democracy" isn't a big deal. Annexing territory by force is okay with you because the big bad USA is bombing Iraq again. Nope, let's not talk about Russia's slide back away from democracy or anything they've done recently...let's change the subject!

There is no war going on in Crimea. There is in Ukraine, where America got involved.
How does America convince its citizens to keep financing it's wars and bombing and even get it's citizens to fund all this and yet incessantly criticize other others?
It's powerful magic

 

[barbos]

Ah yes, the deadly attack on the police by Pussy Riot. I believe one of those little girls killed several police officers with her guitar. Punk as fuck, and certainly they all deserved jail time for all the murders they committed.

Not this shit again.
Funny you said "one of those little girls". Actually one of these girls had a rather extensive list of "accomplishments" for which she would definitely got into prison in US, and much faster and for much longer

 

[Ford]

There is no war going on in Crimea.

You are correct. The Russians forcibly annexed Crimea without a fight.

There is in Ukraine, where America got involved.

That's right. I forgot. You believe Russia is not in any way involved in Ukraine. It is all America's fault, and Russia has done nothing but drop humanitarian supply bombs.

How does America convince its citizens to keep financing it's wars and bombing and even get it's citizens to fund all this and yet incessantly criticize other others?
It's powerful magic

Well see there's the difference. America has to convince its citizens. Putin can just do whatever the hell he wants. Did Putin ask Russian citizens if they were okay with supporting Assad's brutal crackdown on the people who tried to gain freedom from his murderous regime? Nope.

 

[Ford]

Actually one of these girls had a rather extensive list of "accomplishments" for which she would definitely got into prison in US, and much faster and for much longer

Perhaps you'd like to link to all the US punk rockers currently serving prison sentences for "hooliganism."

I'll wait.

 

[barbos]

Actually one of these girls had a rather extensive list of "accomplishments" for which she would definitely got into prison in US, and much faster and for much longer

Perhaps you'd like to link to all the US punk rockers currently serving prison sentences for "hooliganism."

I'll wait.

Since when Pussy riot are punk rockers?
But I am surprised to know that punk-rockers have immunity from from US law against hooliganism.
That boy in Ferguson could have just said "I am a punk-rocker" and all that mess would have been avoided.