Disaster for Ukraine. Rebels route Ukrainian forces at Donetsk

[dystopian]

Well, that kinda change everything, don't you think?

Yes, it makes it even worse. Saying something like that when tensions are already high and while they're actively trying to dominate the politics of its neighbors only further demonstrates that they've pretty much lost the thread; it's a blatant attempt at intimidation; beating up someone in front of everyone and then telling the crowd that they're next if they don't do whatever you say.

If Finland joining NATO causes WW3, it's only because Russia would be insane enough to start it.

 

[barbos]

Well, that kinda change everything, don't you think?

Yes, it makes it even worse. Saying something like that when tensions are already high and while they're actively trying to dominate the politics of its neighbors only further demonstrates that they've pretty much lost the thread; it's a blatant attempt at intimidation; beating up someone in front of everyone and then telling the crowd that they're next if they don't do whatever you say.

If Finland joining NATO causes WW3, it's only because Russia would be insane enough to start it.

Boy, dutch do hate Russia more than anyone else.

 

[dystopian]

Boy, dutch do hate Russia more than anyone else.

Yes, one Dutch person on the internet pointing out that; the things Russia is doing are bad/and arguing with the people who blindly defend those things, translates to an entire country "hating" another, and doing so more than any other country does.

 

[thief of fire]

If Finland joining NATO causes WW3, it's only because Russia would be insane enough to start it.

Except that it is the NATO countries, the US and their clients who start most of the wars. Unfortunatey the US has indicated to the world since Bush that it launches pre-emptive strikes based on lies. So I guess Russia must now be wondering if the US would be crazy enough to launch a pre-emptive strike on Russia, and what they should do about it.

EDIT:
And it seem that Russia is possibly getting wary of that.

Washington Threatens The World

As horrific as Washington’s recklessness toward the Middle East is, Washington’s recklessness toward Russia is many orders of magnitude greater. Washington has
convinced nuclear armed Russia that Washington is planning a nuclear first strike.
In response Russia is beefing up its nuclear forces and testing US air defense reactions. http://freebeacon.com/national-secu...-than-16-incursions-of-u-s-air-defense-zones/

It is difficult to imagine a more irresponsible act than to convince Russia that Washington intends to hit Russia with a preemptive first strike. One of Putin’s advisers has explained to the Russian media Washington’s first strike intentions, and a member of the Russian Duma has made a documented presentation of Washington’s first strike intentions. http://financearmageddon.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/official-warning-u-s-to-hit-russia-with.html By marshaling the evidence, I have pointed out in my columns that it is impossible for Russia to avoid this conclusion.

Prior to the Bush and Obama regimes, every previous US president went to great efforts to avoid telegraphing any nuclear threat. US war doctrine was careful to keep nuclear weapons limited to retaliation in the event the US suffered a nuclear attack. The purpose of nuclear forces was to prevent the use of such weapons. The reckless George W. Bush regime elevated nuclear weapons to preemptive first use, thus destroying the constraint placed on the use of nuclear weapons.

 

[barbos]

Boy, dutch do hate Russia more than anyone else.

Yes, one Dutch person on the internet pointing out that; the things Russia is doing are bad/and arguing with the people who blindly defend those things, translates to an entire country "hating" another, and doing so more than any other country does.

Dude, stop spewing bullshit.

 

[dystopian]

Except that it is the NATO countries, the US and their clients who start most of the wars.

Except that they don't. If you want to make the claim that most wars are started by NATO countries, you're going to have to tally up all the wars since the founding of NATO and determine how many of them were started by a NATO country and how many were not. Guarantee you NATO will not have been involved in the majority of them.

 

[angelo]

Don't worry. Apart from the constant danger some maniac terrorist group get their hands on some nukes, and of course an Arab country like Iran who have a charter of destroying Israel, nuclear weapons are a guarantee there will never be an all out nuclear war.

 

[4321lynx]

Don't worry. Apart from the constant danger some maniac terrorist group get their hands on some nukes, and of course an Arab country like Iran who have a charter of destroying Israel, nuclear weapons are a guarantee there will never be an all out nuclear war.

PLEASE NOTE:_

Iran is NOT an Arab country.

Iranians are NOT Arabs.

 

[arkirk]

Don't worry. Apart from the constant danger some maniac terrorist group get their hands on some nukes, and of course an Arab country like Iran who have a charter of destroying Israel, nuclear weapons are a guarantee there will never be an all out nuclear war.

PLEASE NOTE:_

Iran is NOT an Arab country.

Iranians are NOT Arabs.

Iran also has an Armenian population that are not even Muslims. Granted they have to live with the Supreme Leader and a lot of other bullshit the revolution brought them. I am saying that every one of those countries in that area have significant minorities who are endangered every time hostilities rise. U.S. and European threats, involvements, and provocations just make things worse for these minorities and give the regimes excuses for persecutions.

Interventions and sanctions and covert provocations just hurt the minorities in those countries. Diplomacy will never work in an atmosphere of distrust. We feed the distrust constantly. The world is such a dangerous place with the advent of nuclear weapons. The U.S. has a bad appearance there, demanding all sorts of concessions from Iran, then having bills in Congress for "modernization" of its own nuclear stockpile. Admittedly we have a problem with Islam and if we cannot deal with them in a manner they find is honest, their religion promises to get them all to heaven if a holocaust occurs. This does not bode well for threatening these people.

Putin on the other hand seems a greater threat however because he is a brinksman politician and at times seems more brutally "American-like" than any leader in the middle east. I feel some of the Russian and Ukrainian claims are well founded, but the inscrutable and arbitrary nature of Putin's politics truly are dangerous. His positions on human rights in his own country leave a lot to be desired and he is playing essentially the same carbon energy game as the U.S. Meanwhile if you were unfortunate enough to be born in Ukraine, you are on the chopping block of somebody no matter what side you are on.

Maybe Obama could try another "reset."

 

[angelo]

Don't worry. Apart from the constant danger some maniac terrorist group get their hands on some nukes, and of course an Arab country like Iran who have a charter of destroying Israel, nuclear weapons are a guarantee there will never be an all out nuclear war.

PLEASE NOTE:_

Iran is NOT an Arab country.

Iranians are NOT Arabs.

Worded that wrong. Not Arabs, but islamics.

 

[angelo]

There's Russian proverb that goes something like this: if you can't face the wolf don't go into the forest"

The West has blundered into the Ukrainian forest and enraged the Russian wolf only to discover that we cannot face him. We should now be looking for the path out.

Russia fears a predatory Nato expansion into Ukraine. They fear what will be next, Russia itself?

 

[Derec]

There's Russian proverb that goes something like this: if you can't face the wolf don't go into the forest"

The West has blundered into the Ukrainian forest and enraged the Russian wolf only to discover that we cannot face him. We should now be looking for the path out.

Ukraine doesn't belong to the Russian Bear (rather than wolf - learn your country-animal metaphors). Ukraine doesn't want to go back to being controlled by Moscow. Ukraine deserves help in defending itself from Russian aggression. The world deserves Russia paying for what it did to the Malaysian airliner as well.

Russia fears a predatory Nato expansion into Ukraine. They fear what will be next, Russia itself?

The only predatory expansion is Russia's expansion into Ukraine and you'd have to be immensely naive to think that Putin is not eyeing the Baltic states as well.

 

[Derec]

Right, these poor crimeans must be dreaming of rejoining Ukraine now

I think Russian occupation forces have outlawed dreaming, unless it's dreaming of a shirtless Putin.

Too bad Obama is not that batshit crazy.

He is an appeaser. I fear that his inaction will embolden Putin to further conquests just like Hitler was emboldened to conquer Czechoslovakia and Poland after nobody did anything when he occupied Sudetenland (with pretty much identical pretext to what Putin is using in Crimea and eastern Ukraine).

 

[Harry Bosch]

There's Russian proverb that goes something like this: if you can't face the wolf don't go into the forest" The West has blundered into the Ukrainian forest and enraged the Russian wolf only to discover that we cannot face him. We should now be looking for the path out. Russia fears a predatory Nato expansion into Ukraine. They fear what will be next, Russia itself?

But it is Russia that is pushing Ukraine to the west!!

 

[Derec]

Submarines from countries not on the Black Sea are not permitted in. Even surface ships are only allowed to stay 21 days. Threatening Russia is really not a good idea, especially threatening them with nuclear weapons. You're just inviting a first strike attack from them.

Nobody said anything about threatening them with nuclear weapons, just conventional ones. Countries are not permitted to attack and invade other sovereign countries either and yet here we are with Russia doing just that. So why should we care about technicalities concerning the Black Sea?
They will not be deterred except by a show of and a threat of force. The world is making the same mistake in thinking that an expansionist megalomaniac can be satisfied with only a little bit of conquest.

The US is on thin ground when it comes to treaty commitments remember that we promised Serbia at the end of the Kosovo War that Kosovo would never be given independence and would remain as an autonomous part of Serbian. A few years later, we were demanding a promoting independence for Kosovo.

That was a mistake, I agree.

Then there also promise that if Germany were united, the US would agree not to expand NATO "even one inch" into former Warsaw Pact countries.

Putin trying to reconquer former USSR colonies shows clearly that NATO should have been even more receptive toward allowing them into the NATO fold. Not that this is merely Obama's failing. Bush didn't do anything when Russian tanks rolled into Georgia either.

Now we have admitted virtually all of them and even admitted former Soviet Republics like Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia. Ukraine and Georgia have been in our cross-hairs for quite some time, but I don't understand why we are wasting our time. Putin will never allow it.

It's not Putin's right to allow it or not. They are sovereign counties that have the right to chose international organizations, alliances and treaties they want to join. That Russia is acting aggressively toward former colonies that make decision not in Moscow's interest proves the necessity of those countries seeking NATO protection.

 

[barbos]

Nobody said anything about threatening them with nuclear weapons, just conventional ones. Countries are not permitted to attack and invade other sovereign countries either and yet here we are with Russia doing just that. So why should we care about technicalities concerning the Black Sea?
They will not be deterred except by a show of and a threat of force. The world is making the same mistake in thinking that an expansionist megalomaniac can be satisfied with only a little bit of conquest.

The US is on thin ground when it comes to treaty commitments remember that we promised Serbia at the end of the Kosovo War that Kosovo would never be given independence and would remain as an autonomous part of Serbian. A few years later, we were demanding a promoting independence for Kosovo.

That was a mistake, I agree.

Then there also promise that if Germany were united, the US would agree not to expand NATO "even one inch" into former Warsaw Pact countries.

Putin trying to reconquer former USSR colonies shows clearly that NATO should have been even more receptive toward allowing them into the NATO fold. Not that this is merely Obama's failing. Bush didn't do anything when Russian tanks rolled into Georgia either.

That's a lie.

Now we have admitted virtually all of them and even admitted former Soviet Republics like Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia. Ukraine and Georgia have been in our cross-hairs for quite some time, but I don't understand why we are wasting our time. Putin will never allow it.

It's not Putin's right to allow it or not. They are sovereign counties that have the right to chose international organizations, alliances and treaties they want to join. That Russia is acting aggressively toward former colonies that make decision not in Moscow's interest proves the necessity of those countries seeking NATO protection.

It's not US right to make coups and install puppet and fascist regimes.

 

[barbos]

I think Russian occupation forces have outlawed dreaming, unless it's dreaming of a shirtless Putin.

Too bad Obama is not that batshit crazy.

He is an appeaser. I fear that his inaction will embolden Putin to further conquests just like Hitler was emboldened to conquer Czechoslovakia and Poland after nobody did anything when he occupied Sudetenland (with pretty much identical pretext to what Putin is using in Crimea and eastern Ukraine).

When are you going to put in your head that Crimea left Ukraine under their free will?

 

[barbos]

American public is being fed lies.
I know this because I watch Colbert Report and when russian born girl comes and starts talking about that recording of the separatists talking about shot down Malaysian plane and I know she is lying, cause you know, I speak russian and heard that tape too. So yes, you are being fed lies

 

[barbos]

Ukraine doesn't belong to the Russian Bear (rather than wolf - learn your country-animal metaphors). Ukraine doesn't want to go back to being controlled by Moscow. Ukraine deserves help in defending itself from Russian aggression. The world deserves Russia paying for what it did to the Malaysian airliner as well.

There is a good chance that you will have to eat your words.
It has not been proven that Russia had anything to do with it.

 

[Sabine Grant]

American public is being fed lies.
I know this because I watch Colbert Report and when russian born girl comes and starts talking about that recording of the separatists talking about shot down Malaysian plane and I know she is lying, cause you know, I speak russian and heard that tape too. So yes, you are being fed lies

The majority of your arguments relies on accusations of lies. I do not speak Russian yet I am fluent in my native language (French, as it would be expected that I detain fluency in my native language) and Italian. I could easily build an argumentation similar to yours of lies perpetrated via the Russian media (you are already notorious for having portrayed the Western media as a whole as feeding lies) based on how they misrepresent commentaries, debates, and discussions occurring within the Western Media, specifically French and Italian.